This was taken from
www.bowlingchat.net this afternoon. It is lengthy, but read it and I feel it will be a vital tool for you to learn more about this industry and what things are like from the other side of the press.
Please take your time to read this all.
-Regards
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[Sawbones] 5:07 pm: Dp3, how much business does a pro shop do in the summer?
[Dp3] 5:08 pm: Depends on locale and market really.
[Dp3] 5:09 pm: Nick is doing well(I think). Last summer in delaware we were doing 800-1000 days in the summer, as of late in this new location I'm in now(and being outside of a bowling center), we're not doing much at all in the summer
[Sawbones] 5:10 pm: I know many businesses are seasonal and just wondered about pro shops.
[Dp3] 5:10 pm: If I had it my way I'd make this shop seasonal
[Dp3] 5:10 pm: maybe 1 or 2 days a week in addition to weekends in the summer.
[Dp3] 5:10 pm: I can bartend one hot night in downtown ocean city and make what I'd pay myself for 2 weeks here in the shop
[Sawbones] 5:11 pm: With overhead being what it is, it would make sense to cut back on days open I would think.
[azproputt] 5:11 pm: well....some of that overhead is rent
[Dp3] 5:11 pm: Delaware was different because we were the only shop in a 60 mile radius. Didn't stock much, were owned by the bowling center's owner's family, did mostly outside drills and sold a bunch of select balls.
[azproputt] 5:11 pm: being closed doesn't help pay for that
[Dp3] 5:11 pm: Then in the country everybody bowls so if dad gets a ball, so does the wife, two kids and the dog...and new bags
[Sawbones] 5:12 pm: Agree az, but there are other overhead expenses that could be cut.
[azproputt] 5:12 pm: you're a petSmart, too?
[Dp3] 5:12 pm: lol
[Sawbones] 5:13 pm: Can a pro shop outside of a center do as well as those in centers?
[Dp3] 5:14 pm: No
[Dp3] 5:14 pm: It's easy to convert the recreational bowler into a serious bowler and get them to come in and spend $125 on a ball/bag/shoe package when all they came to do was roll a few games with friends
[Dp3] 5:15 pm: Here we have a select client base, get repair work from the closest house, and whatever business I've brought in myself from BR, the college kids I coach and amatuer/pba members
[Dp3] 5:16 pm: then there's about 6 shops within 20-30 minutes in each direction so we're in the middle of stiff comp, we just happen to be one of the longest running shops with good prices and 2 really well known drillers.
[Sawbones] 5:16 pm: I have a friend who was in a center who owned the shop and he was paid a salary. He built up such a clientel that he felt he would do better on his own and opened a shop in a shopping center and has done quite well.
[Dp3] 5:16 pm: If we were in a shop I think we would make 3 or 4 times more what we make just from new traffic and being open during league nights
[Sawbones] 5:18 pm: Large corps claim they can do well on a 5% profit. What does it take for a pro shop to
do well?
[Dp3] 5:19 pm: oh man, that's a slippery slope. I'd say 100%
[Dp3] 5:19 pm: lol
[Dp3] 5:19 pm: depending on what you've invested and how good your equipment is.
[Dp3] 5:20 pm: We have roughly 25k invested in the tools it takes to maintain, weigh, and drill your balls along
[Dp3] 5:20 pm: alone
[Sawbones] 5:20 pm: I realize you have to take in more than you pay out, but surely you know how much profit is reasonable.
    [BrunsNick] 5:20 pm: free standing pro shops are pretty much unheard of here in so cal
[Dp3] 5:21 pm: There's a difference between being paid reasonable and being paid what you feel you're worth
[treynon] 5:21 pm: hey bruns have u ever seen that shop next to westminster bowl
[Dp3] 5:21 pm: I can imagine so nick, it's unheard of pretty much everywhere. This shop has been running since 91 and was in previous centers that were shut down
[Sawbones] 5:22 pm: Do bowlers haggle over the price of something because there is a misconception that pro shops make a ton of money?
[Dp3] 5:22 pm: Everyday Bones.
[treynon] 5:22 pm: its the only 1 ive seen that does well outside of a bowling alley but its 2 doors down
[Sawbones] 5:23 pm: Then, who is at fault for this misconception?
[Dp3] 5:23 pm: I will admit our drilling prices are high, but we easily have the two most knowledgeable drillers in the immediate area who've invested a ton of money and time and years into learning this craft
[Sawbones] 5:24 pm: Does Joe Bowler know how good they are?
    [BrunsNick] 5:24 pm: DP3... the problem is, the majority of your expertise is wasted on people who just want a ball
[Dp3] 5:25 pm: It's hard to say Bones......my easiest answer would be consumerism period. People always want the best deals period, and whenever they get into a service oriented business, if they're not knowledgeable about who is a good driller and who isn't they'll go to Joe Leverage who's drilling balls for $35 over someplace like us that is 50. It'd be easier to sell someone on your service if they understood what encompassed the art of drilling
    [BrunsNick] 5:25 pm: the problem also with "higher level" bowlers is they want something for free... like something is owed to them
[Dp3] 5:25 pm: Amen.
[Dp3] 5:26 pm: and higher level bowlers make up our client base.
[Queenx] 5:26 pm: sometimes you just need to take the order drill what the customer wants... not that hard.
[Sawbones] 5:26 pm: As long as the ball feels ok when drilled, Joe Bowler is satisfied. He does not know the difference between a proper drill and one that just feels good.
[Queenx] 5:27 pm: why not Nick easy $........not need for them to go down the street
    [BrunsNick] 5:28 pm: new bowlers are easy money...
    [BrunsNick] 5:28 pm: impulse buyers
[Dp3] 5:28 pm: At the other place we charged a $50 an hour fee to use our shop services after we were closed, so if we were closed for leagues and one of the scratch guys had 3 or 4 balls to drill up, pay your $50, turn on the light and handle your business
    [BrunsNick] 5:28 pm: i stock everything they could want
    [BrunsNick] 5:28 pm: i'd never let anyone use my press
    [BrunsNick] 5:28 pm: mainly for insurance reasons
[Dp3] 5:29 pm: I don't here, but there I had no choice, I was just there, that was the owner's thing
[Sawbones] 5:29 pm: NIck, like you, I am surprised that anyone would let someone just walk in and use your equipment.
[Dp3] 5:29 pm: true, it's too easy to get maimed for life around this machinery
    [BrunsNick] 5:30 pm: hell, i'm still 50/50 conventional/fingertip here
    [BrunsNick] 5:30 pm: we have a TON of recreational fun time leagues
[Dp3] 5:31 pm: Wow. I rarely sell white dots here.
[Sawbones] 5:31 pm: If a pro shop allows even one bowler to haggle, word gets around and every bowler will want a sweet deal. I think it would be best to have prices posted and no vary from them even at the cost of
losing a customer.
[Dp3] 5:31 pm: The majority of our stock that we drill are balls in the $120-170 range. So basically your low-mid priced and clearanced high ends.
    [BrunsNick] 5:32 pm: DP3... i'd say easily 60% of my business is polyester/groove/tropical
[Dp3] 5:32 pm: wow.....crazy the drastic differences
[Dp3] 5:33 pm: If this was my shop, I'd get it in a center, any center, and pretty much do that. Stock 2-3 of the hottest high end balls, about 7-10 varying mid-low range all weights and color varieties and make money off the small stuff all day and outside drills
[Sawbones] 5:34 pm: I have never known of patients trying to haggle over a doctors fees. That is because we dont haggle.
    [BrunsNick] 5:35 pm: i don't haggle much at all... when a new ball comes out like the fury, i'll buy into them so i get the price down enough to match zone pricing
    [BrunsNick] 5:35 pm: my markup % is the same more or less across the board
[Dp3] 5:35 pm: people dont necessarily "haggle" with us persay, but with 5-6 other shops around, they'll "shop around" and wont hesitate to say "Wow, this ball is $154.95 here? It's $99 at the other place" but don't consider our prices include drilling and the other places have a la carte systems
[Sawbones] 5:35 pm: So Nick, you really dont care what ball the bowler wants.
    [BrunsNick] 5:36 pm: i'll suggest balls that may fit their needs. more often than not, they know what type of ball they want
    [BrunsNick] 5:37 pm: sure i'll make more money selling a fury as opposed to a groove, but i'll never offer that as a high end
[Dp3] 5:37 pm: There's another thing I'm not sure if you guys may understand, you can give the bowler "what they want", but if it's not what they need and it reacts terrible, who gets the wrap for the ball rolling like crap? Not the bowler, it's the driller or the ball.
[Sawbones] 5:37 pm: I meant your margin of profit is the same for a high end ball as a low end ball.
    [BrunsNick] 5:37 pm: right... i'll make about 45 points either way
[Dp3] 5:38 pm: We have the same percentage markup on everything, but that makes higher end harder to sell since distributors keep going up
    [BrunsNick] 5:38 pm: to be honest, my margins are higher on lower end
[Dp3] 5:39 pm: I can't sell a ball like a shift at our normal markup and have it around $235 when there's a shop selling it for much less down the street and making less money on it
[Dp3] 5:39 pm: Yeah same here.
    [BrunsNick] 5:39 pm: because the internet does not affect my price
[Dp3] 5:40 pm: Cause we'll tier the low end stuff like scouts and grooves, you can still sell at an affordable price and make much more profit on it
    [BrunsNick] 5:40 pm: i'm actually considering not carrying any thing above 165 retail
[MegaMav] 5:40 pm: are you saying shops are a niche market holder now?
[Dp3] 5:41 pm: They definately are here Mav. We're like "The people's shop" and we sell alot of Roto/Storm, another shop specializes in Lane 1/Brunswick and they're a bit pricey so they get their niche....another place stocks everything that comes out and they sell at internet pricing and a la carte their drillings and they get their
nich
    [BrunsNick] 5:41 pm: i'm gonna show you a pic in a sec...
    [BrunsNick] 5:42 pm: my display and what i stock
[Sawbones] 5:42 pm: If legit pro shops made it known that their margin of profit is the same regardless of the ball, bowlers would tend to listen the the pro shop guy when it comes to suggesting a ball.
[Dp3] 5:42 pm: It would seem that way but not everyone understands business
[Sawbones] 5:43 pm: I know many who question the pro shop who tries to suggest a certain ball. The bowler automatically thinks the pro shop will make more money on that ball.
[Dp3] 5:44 pm: Yeah Bones, there's always going to be those that think they are being "sold on something" but you get alot of people that will take your word because they trust you as the expert
[Dp3] 5:44 pm: Pro Shops business is very close to a mechanic's shop IMO
    [BrunsNick] 5:45 pm:
www.brunsnick.com/display.jpg    [BrunsNick] 5:45 pm: poly i try to stock every color and weight if available
    [BrunsNick] 5:45 pm: p grooves 12, 14, 15
    [BrunsNick] 5:45 pm: mid range and high end 14, 15, 15
[Sawbones] 5:45 pm: When I went shopping for my last new car, the dealer told me which car would best suit my purpose and it was much cheaper than the one I thought I wanted. I asked him why he would make such a suggestion. He said he knew my driving habits and that he would make just as much off the cheaper model as the expensive one. Naturally, I trusted him and bought the cheaper model and he was correct. I love it.
    [BrunsNick] 5:47 pm: anyone can pretty much walk in and walk out with a ball of their choice
[Dp3] 5:47 pm: I can honestly say though, everyone I drill for, if they're a little skeptical, about 95% of the time they'll end up thanking me for trusting my decision so it makes it worth it
[Sawbones] 5:47 pm: Will a good reputation out do placed with cheaper prices in the long run?
[Dp3] 5:48 pm: How long is long run? A fiscal year?
[MegaMav] 5:48 pm: DJ, great article
[MegaMav] 5:48 pm:
http://www.bowlingwiki.net/wiki/index.php/%22Trick%22_Layout_Examples    [BrunsNick] 5:48 pm: sawbones, depends on the demographics really
    [BrunsNick] 5:48 pm: and what level of bowlers you have
[stonedrie] 5:49 pm: a long run is generally 5 years or longer
[Sawbones] 5:49 pm: I find the better bowlers gravitate to the best driller in Tulsa but he does not do the volume of some of the other places.
[Dp3] 5:50 pm: That's the sacrifice you take to maintain your integrity or market sometimes bones.
[Dp3] 5:51 pm: I'd rather be considered really good at what I do in a low volume place like this rather than be associated with a bad image place that does better than us financiall because maybe 10 years down the line in this industry it'll pay off and I'll be in a much better position career wise than I am now
[Sawbones] 5:51 pm: What % of your customers have a clue about what you do?
[MegaMav] 5:52 pm: i'd guess 1 in 5
[Sawbones] 5:52 pm: Mega, I think you are being generous.
[Dp3] 5:52 pm: Here? maybe 60% because alot of my customers are internet savvy and will read BR and publications, but we have a small base. Only a few recreation/new bowlers
[Dp3] 5:53 pm: the rest of our customers would be the seniors and new bowlers who were recommended from others. I doubt there's many shops that fit our mold though
[Sawbones] 5:54 pm: I guess the bottom line is each busines knows it market share and aims its advertizing in that direction.
    [BrunsNick] 5:54 pm: perfect example, i just measured a hand for a nascar league ball
    [BrunsNick] 5:54 pm: palm bowler
    [BrunsNick] 5:54 pm: drilled conventional
    [BrunsNick] 5:54 pm: all the college aged kids don't use thumbs around here
[Dp3] 5:55 pm: that's nationwide nick lol
[Jeremy] 5:55 pm: yeah dude i was gonna say that
[Dp3] 5:56 pm: I've even seen girls doing it here
    [BrunsNick] 5:56 pm: our new slogan will be "Bro, we got the balls that spin here!"
[Dp3] 5:56 pm: I used to operate a center on my campus lol
[Sawbones] 5:56 pm: Lets use me for an example. I walk into your shop and tell you I want a new ball for the THS condtion that I bowl on. What steps do you take to have me walk out with a ball that will server my purpose?
[Dp3] 5:56 pm: I just spit water everywhere.
[Jeremy] 5:57 pm: lol bones if you walked into my shop i'd try to sell you a $239.99 white dot
    [BrunsNick] 5:57 pm: sawbones, i would tell you that unless you threw brunswick, you won't shoot more than 190
    [BrunsNick] 5:57 pm: i have balls to drill here... g2g, dodger game on in one hour
[Dp3] 5:57 pm: First I would ask for what you have now and speak with you about any gaps you may have, ask about your favorites, the answers you give me will give me a generalization of the area you like to play and the reaction shape that you like to see.
[Dp3] 5:58 pm: Then I'd take a look at your track on your equipment, mark your PAP and without seeing you bowl I can tell your rotation, tilt etc just from looking at the ball and your grip and I'd give you a couple of options from what we have based on that and explain to you why I think they'll match up well with what you're looking for then explain what layout I'd use for what reason so you could understand....without going over your head
[Jeremy] 5:59 pm: dp we did the same thing for the guys who needed balls at palo alto
[Dp3] 6:00 pm: a large group of my customers are just like this, after I go through everything, they know I know what I'm talking about....so they give me their complete trust
[Dp3] 6:00 pm: where as other guys would go "Well I have a Black Widow and it's the best ball I ever threw. Everyone I drill one for likes it"
[Jeremy] 6:01 pm: dp, thats the talk of the staffers
[Jeremy] 6:02 pm: i kinda get tired of this talk from staffers saying that so and so ball is awesome without telling me what it does
[Jeremy] 6:02 pm: or better yet what they did to the ball, too... coverstock wise, etc
[Dp3] 6:02 pm: But you're Mr. Bowler here. You bowl 3 games a week in a senior league on tuesday that has a light oil sr. pattern out
[Dp3] 6:02 pm: you dont need a widow, you need a vibe
[Sawbones] 6:03 pm: Dp3, let me butt in here. I went to a driller I did not know to get a new ball. The first thing he did was to look at my hand. The second thing he did was have me toss a ball for a few frames. He then measured my hand and with nothing more, picked out a ball and started drilling. It felt great and worked like a
charm.
[Dp3] 6:03 pm: Well I'd do that if I was in a bowling center Bones, but I'm not lol. You said if you came into my shop.
[Sawbones] 6:05 pm: Dp3, is not being in a center a disadvantage since you can not watch the bowler toss a few balls?
[Dp3] 6:06 pm: It is a disadvantage, but not so much for me and my boss because we have enough experience to look at a ball, your grip, track and PAP and I can immediately put together a mental image of how that ball is rolling out of your hand. The only thing we can't guess on is speed and rev rate
[Dp3] 6:06 pm: it's a huge disadvantage if someone doesn't have a ball with them or doesnt have specs on file
[Sawbones] 6:07 pm: But isnt speed and rev rate essential to a proper drill?
[Dp3] 6:07 pm: Because I don't know if you guys know, but about 75% of average bowlers really can't put into words how they bowl
[Jeremy] 6:07 pm: 75% is generous, no?
[Dp3] 6:07 pm: It is, but there's questions you can ask to get the answers you need bones. I never ask someone "how fast" or "how much hand they have". I'll ask....."Where do you bowl?" they'll give me a center that lays down a heavier pattern, and I'll ask what are you using? or what do you like to use there? and they'll name me lets say i dunno.....a V2 Pearl
[stonedrie] 6:09 pm: i have no idea how i bowl... lol
[Jeremy] 6:09 pm: dp3, do you know any of any pro shops that have customers do a written survey to go along with their spec sheet in that is kept in the shop?
[Dp3] 6:09 pm: So that tells me right away, I know this center profile is heavier oil in the track area, if you're
using a v2 pearl and you like it on that shot you're playing direct and fairly slow with a heavy end over end roll
or else that thing wouldnt hook
[Dp3] 6:10 pm: No Jeremy I dont, but we make little notes in our computer software of things customers will say, their likes and dislikes when it comes to equipment
[Dp3] 6:10 pm: Bones do you get my drift? It's not what you ask, but how you ask it that gets the information you want.
[Jeremy] 6:11 pm: right on
[Dp3] 6:12 pm: It's alot of stuff you have to know outside of a pro shop that will dictate how good you are at this.
[Dp3] 6:12 pm: I have to know all 11 centers in our area like the back of my hand, their profile, patterns, lane play characteristics, etc
[Sawbones] 6:12 pm: Dp3, I know I have put you throug the ringer with my questions and remarks, but let me say if I were in your area, I would run to your shop for any bowling needs I might have. You believe in what you do and have prepared yourself to serve those who come to you. You get a gold star from me and I dont give those out very often.
[Dp3] 6:13 pm: Well I appreciate it with the upmost sincerity and I'll gladly accept any recommendation that you spread word of mouth that DJ Marshall and the staff of twelve in a row pro shop in Maryland are great guys who are passionate about their business.
[Dp3] 6:14 pm: I let you guys in on alot about my business and some of you may know of the problems we've had lately, I'd like to let you know that you guys and alot of other supporters are what's keeping this place
going, because we want to be around for the good people.
[MegaMav] 6:15 pm: and... bowlingchat.net
[Dp3] 6:15 pm: ding ding ding!
[Dp3] 6:16 pm: Well I wish I had more business so I didnt have as much time as I do during the day to goof off
with you guys, but it's time well spent lol
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-DJ Marshall...The Twelve In a Row Pro Shop
