Quote from: themagician on April 01, 2022, 05:43:01 PM

Quote from: psycaz on April 01, 2022, 05:04:55 PM

Looks like the offer to exchange ends June 1, 2022.

Makes you wonder what happens if all the local factions ban these balls starting in the fall season? Is everyone screwed?

Sure as hell looks that way.

Way to look out for the bowlers there Chad. Awesome agreement. Bowlers have to pay to return and no assurance of ball legality or exchangeablility after June 1 if you decline to swap befor the fall season. Euro direction from National for the local USBC

That time period to exchange is on Storm, not Chad. Now that data is out there it sure looks like a manufacturing issue by Storm, which is unfortunate. USBC seems to have cut a deal to not bankrupt storm by full yanking all of those balls from the approved list immediately.

Worst thing is and it gets mentioned in posts around here is the casual bowler and all the pro shops deal with the most pain from this whole situation. I'm already dealing with a PO'd customer that had a Spectre, picked the Wolverine as replacement, that shipment from Storm got canceled and we haven't got anything on how to pick another ball yet.

It’s Chad’s responsibility to look out for the bowlers interest in this. Kinda what we pay dues for isn’t it?

It’s also on Chad that the decision isn’t more definitive. Make them legal for leagues plus local and state tournaments. Make it from the top to emote any doubt about what might happen come the fall once we’re past the exchange date.

My big fear is the bowlers getting screwed on this even more than they already are. Everyone will wait until past June1 to ban them and bowlers will have zero recourse because it’s past the date.  Enjoy your new doorstop.

I think what he is trying to do is get the balls through the current season, then see where they are at over the summer. That gives the bowlers time to use them, and then figure out what their next step is going to be.

What I'm more interested to see is how Tom Clark is going to handle this, given his statement. Is he already going to go back on it and eat the crow? If so, then that puts PBA at a bit of a lesser standard than the USBC.

BL.

Quote from: bradl on April 01, 2022, 06:21:32 PM

Quote from: psycaz on April 01, 2022, 05:47:48 PM

Quote from: themagician on April 01, 2022, 05:43:01 PM

Quote from: psycaz on April 01, 2022, 05:04:55 PM

Looks like the offer to exchange ends June 1, 2022.

Makes you wonder what happens if all the local factions ban these balls starting in the fall season? Is everyone screwed?

Sure as hell looks that way.

Way to look out for the bowlers there Chad. Awesome agreement. Bowlers have to pay to return and no assurance of ball legality or exchangeablility after June 1 if you decline to swap befor the fall season. Euro direction from National for the local USBC

That time period to exchange is on Storm, not Chad. Now that data is out there it sure looks like a manufacturing issue by Storm, which is unfortunate. USBC seems to have cut a deal to not bankrupt storm by full yanking all of those balls from the approved list immediately.

Worst thing is and it gets mentioned in posts around here is the casual bowler and all the pro shops deal with the most pain from this whole situation. I'm already dealing with a PO'd customer that had a Spectre, picked the Wolverine as replacement, that shipment from Storm got canceled and we haven't got anything on how to pick another ball yet.

It’s Chad’s responsibility to look out for the bowlers interest in this. Kinda what we pay dues for isn’t it?

It’s also on Chad that the decision isn’t more definitive. Make them legal for leagues plus local and state tournaments. Make it from the top to emote any doubt about what might happen come the fall once we’re past the exchange date.

My big fear is the bowlers getting screwed on this even more than they already are. Everyone will wait until past June1 to ban them and bowlers will have zero recourse because it’s past the date.  Enjoy your new doorstop.

I think what he is trying to do is get the balls through the current season, then see where they are at over the summer. That gives the bowlers time to use them, and then figure out what their next step is going to be.

What I'm more interested to see is how Tom Clark is going to handle this, given his statement. Is he already going to go back on it and eat the crow? If so, then that puts PBA at a bit of a lesser standard than the USBC.

BL.

I hope you’re right. I can see them saying, you used them for a season. You could have exchanged but decided you didn’t want to. We can’t leave the exchange window open indefinitely.

I would actually think that they'd get you through the season, and even through bowling the summer. Come the next fall season, they get full sin bin. However, Storm should leave the exchange window open until either the end of the calendar year or the end of next bowling season. After that, those who didn't exchange have lost their opportunity and are stuck with a bowling ball ladybug for their backyard or garden.

That leaves Storm also with the option of getting the latest tech into the bowler's hands, whether through the summer releases, the fall releases, or the late winter releases. That would be the most optimal to Storm, but I don't want to guess how costly that would be, given that new releases are moneygrabbers, plus dealing with Black Friday.

BL.

See, your solution makes sense. But it’s not what’s currently happening.

I expect the full sin bin treatment this fall. I just see Storm saying too bad unless there enormous pushback now. USBC National isn’t going to back the bowlers at all.

There isn't much more that the USBC can do on this one. If they have the numbers and are able to publish them, then everything goes back into Storm's court. The USBC can talk to Storm about what they can do as far as getting the balls through to the end of this season and possibly the summer, but after that, it's all on Storm and if they can renegotiate another agreement with the USBC.

Right now, out of all of the entire fiascos, the ones in the best seats are the ones with the 2016-2017 Purple Hammers and the Spectre.. Obviously Brunswick is going to get the Hammer bowlers a new ball from any of the 7 brands, but those who still have their Spectres need to hold onto them, at least until the fall. I don't know if there is a trade-by date for the Spectre, but they'll get the best deal in getting a free ball without any financial conditions. The ones in the worst shape are those who turned in their Spectre and got one of these 6 balls, as now they have to pay (in one form or another) to get a replacement, whereas if they held on to their Spectre, they'd be able to at least get something for free.

BL.

Quote from: bradl on April 01, 2022, 06:58:08 PM

Quote from: psycaz on April 01, 2022, 06:45:39 PM

See, your solution makes sense. But it’s not what’s currently happening.

I expect the full sin bin treatment this fall. I just see Storm saying too bad unless there enormous pushback now. USBC National isn’t going to back the bowlers at all.

There isn't much more that the USBC can do on this one. If they have the numbers and are able to publish them, then everything goes back into Storm's court. The USBC can talk to Storm about what they can do as far as getting the balls through to the end of this season and possibly the summer, but after that, it's all on Storm and if they can renegotiate another agreement with the USBC.

Right now, out of all of the entire fiascos, the ones in the best seats are the ones with the 2016-2017 Purple Hammers and the Spectre.. Obviously Brunswick is going to get the Hammer bowlers a new ball from any of the 7 brands, but those who still have their Spectres need to hold onto them, at least until the fall. I don't know if there is a trade-by date for the Spectre, but they'll get the best deal in getting a free ball without any financial conditions. The ones in the worst shape are those who turned in their Spectre and got one of these 6 balls, as now they have to pay (in one form or another) to get a replacement, whereas if they held on to their Spectre, they'd be able to at least get something for free.

BL.

It should have been part of the agreement as to the length of time the window stays open for the exchanges. Something that benefits the bowlers.

Totally agree here. They should have put an eligibility period in for all of these, especially to save those from milking the program. I mean, imagine how many people are trying to Ebay for a 2016-2017 Purple Hammer to exchange for a new ball on the cheap?

The same right now could apply with the Spectre. Someone out there goes to buy them up on the cheap, trades them in, and gets something free from Storm with all of those $50 drilling vouchers.

That's why they need begin and end dates on those exchange periods.

BL.

That's a good thought, the last Spectre I saw on ebay was going for close to $500. I don't see that happening with the "infamous 6" because they're not technically banned. I wouldn't vote to ban them from the leagues I bowl in and I'm not a Storm fan. Do we know how soft the ones that failed were? Are we talking they averaged 68-70 or could you use them to write on a chalk board?

If we went off of Ron Hickland's numbers, a lot of what he had tested came out in the mid 72s, but weren't going to be of a group that would have been grandfathered in from being at 72D specifications before a certain point. I want to say that that date was sometime in December 2020. The Spectre was certified in December 2021, so it would have had to conform to to 73D, so it was definitely under.

As far as that goes it's as relevant as static weights. I think the USBC worked out with Storm something that wouldn't absolutely destroy the company. We're just coming of covid and no company made any money the last almost 2 years. Most of those balls were in the same reaction category and unless you find some recent discontinued pieces, Storm doesn't have good replacements (reaction shape wise) for the phaze 4, ufo, spectre. And as far as I know, Storm self reported on the initial issue with the spectre.

This is why I was giving a window of December of this year, so that they could have something coming out that could be a replacement for them. Granted they don't have the time to speed up production for the replacement of 7 balls, but at least something. Perhaps they should make it rolling. I'd give till the end of the year on the free Spectre replacement, and then the beginning of the fall 2023 season for the replacement of the other 6. That way no-one has time to milk the system in place on the Spectre; in fact, that would only give them this summer's releases and the early fall releases to capitalize on the Spectre replacement program, as the bowler would be losing value on a ball they chose when they hit Black Friday going into the holiday season. At that point, they would have missed their chance for the best value.

For the remaining 6, they get sin binned for the Fall 2022 season, and then have until the end of the fall 2022/2023 season to replace them. That gives the bowler and Storm time to push through their production pipeline to get balls out.

Unfortunately the USBC didn't have a good play here. They either bend over a ton of bowlers and one of if not the biggest manufacturer by sales, or they bury the issue and take heat when it would eventually come out. I don't think it's cool to dump the onus on individual tournaments and associations and make them be villains by enforcing the ban. And for those asking about those who already put up numbers (looking at you Barnes), they had no way of knowing their balls may or may not have been legal. And most of those bowlers would put up numbers in competition no matter what they were throwing. It's a bad deal for Storm and the USBC no matter what punishment gets handed down. Check out Brad and Kyle's YouTube and they're obviously put in a bind along with other staffers. Again, not a Storm fan, I just read it like I'm reading Latin. But their company has been dominant and done a lot for bowling. Let's see where their #weather the Storm videos go.....

This is why I was saying that while Rash can walk away proudly with the title that he won throwing the Spectre, he doesn't have much room to talk about integrity anymore because he's complained about a certain ball being that should have been banned (and subsequently was) while bowling with just as bad a ball that was also subsequently banned.

Again, I'm less concerned with the USBC and their statement on it, and more interested in how Clark is going to handle revisiting his statement now that data is coming out to justify the USBC's decision.

BL.

So dis functional you kids are

Moving a few balls to PBA guys is the least of Storm’s worries. They need to figure out their covers for a catalog of balls for 3 brands that don’t roll like a big turd with a new formulation

All while navigating the massive holes in the catalog now.

We dropped off my son’s Electrify today for shipment back to Storm for the exchange.  He didn’t really want to get rid of the Electrify, but being prohibited in Jr. Gold swayed him on doing the exchange.  Plus, our local youth program coordinator recommended doing the exchange for any of her bowlers that have the 6 excluded balls.

We figured he’d be restricted to similar pricepoint balls for the exchange (e.g. a Hustle or Hyped) but the exchange portal allowed any of the offered balls to be exchanged for the excluded ones.  He picked a Rotogrip Gem.  Felt a little guilty about getting a higher cost ball back.   But, it was almost $50 to ship through USPS so we consider it a wash.
   
Local shop still had an Altered Reality, Wolverine, Phase 4 and Trend 2 on the wall for sale this afternoon. Got an earful from the kid working there about his opinion of the USBC.