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Author Topic: 6 More balls stripped of approval  (Read 50879 times)

suhoney24

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6 More balls stripped of approval
« on: March 29, 2022, 07:25:21 PM »
USBC and Storm Products have agreed on a national tournament exclusion rule and ball exchange program for six Storm Products manufactured ball models. The agreement comes after USBC identified the models having a percentage of balls produced below USBC minimum 73D hardness specification. Read more: https://bowl.com/News/NewsDetails.aspx?id=23622337509

USBC's investigation showed a percentage of these ball models measured below the USBC-required hardness level of the approval samples submitted by Storm. Storm collaborated with USBC after being notified of this testing.

The affected models include: Storm Phaze 4, Storm Electrify Solid, Storm Trend 2, 900 Global Altered Reality, 900 Global Wolverine, Roto Grip UFO Alert

Effective March 30, 2022, these balls models are prohibited from use in USBC national tournaments, including but not limited to, the USBC Masters, U.S. Open, USBC Open Championships, USBC Women's Championships, all PWBA Tour events, USBC Junior Gold and Youth Open Championships, USBC Intercollegiate Championships, USBC Team USA Trials, USBC Senior Masters and USBC Senior Queens.

These ball models remain USBC approved. Each USBC competition, whether tournament or league, has the option to adopt USBC's national tournament rule prohibiting use of these balls or to continue to allow their use.

USBC has shared this national tournament rule with Storm and has Storm's support. Storm will offer owners of the affected balls the option to exchange their balls for a new product. Information about the exchange program will be published later this week on StormBowling.com.

 

milorafferty

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Re: 6 More balls stripped of approval
« Reply #136 on: April 05, 2022, 12:34:52 PM »
Milo-plea deal.  Storm cried uncle so they would stop testing.

That would make sense.
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morpheus

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Re: 6 More balls stripped of approval
« Reply #137 on: April 05, 2022, 01:19:45 PM »
It’s not like Storm negotiated with USBC who can do whatever they want…the manufacturer has to abide by the ruling of the governing body if they want to sell balls in the USA.
#AFutureForMembership #WhoDoesUSBCWorkFor

psycaz

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Re: 6 More balls stripped of approval
« Reply #138 on: April 05, 2022, 01:29:31 PM »
On a different note, I will admit that I'm pretty pissed off that I have to spend $75 in shipping and drilling costs (even after the $50 coupon) to downgrade from a ball I loved to another ball that I probably won't like quite as much from a company I'm having a hard time trusting right now.  Many of us are spending a pretty decent chunk of change to make sure that we haven't completely wasted our initial investment, making the replacement balls the most expensive ones we will have ever owned by far.  Thanks a bunch, Storm.

My household is in the same boat. We have three excluded balls here. Would love to keep them just for the local league and tournament aspect. Do I have a freaking clue if we’ll be able to use them come fall - hell no…

That I have a severe problem with.

psycaz

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Re: 6 More balls stripped of approval
« Reply #139 on: April 05, 2022, 01:32:57 PM »
USBC finally doing their jobs?

They’re the ones who created this crapfest with the timing of their decision as well as the decisiveness as a topper.

You agree the timing is horrible.

Thoughts on the USBC totally abdicating their responsibility on making a decision on the balls for all bowlers? Leaving it to local associations and tournaments was stupid.

If they wanted to keep them legal for use outside of those exclusion tournaments, them make the executive decision and be done with it. Be the governing body and provide leadership and certainty for your membership as to what’s going to happen with those balls come the start of fall 2022 season.

All they did was kick the responsibility to someone else. Allow folks to blame someone else for a decision. Decisions that will not be made until after Storm’s exchange window closes on the affected bowling balls. Well after.

A total crapfest if and/or when those balls start being banned for local use for the Fall 2022 season and bowlers are stuck with $150+ door stops because of no exchange option.



I 100% agree with all of your points.  That doesn't make any of my points wrong.  You'll also notice I didn't say that USBC did their jobs well.  They didn't, but at least they identified a major problem and attempted to address it.  As you very well explained, they screwed up the way they handled it six ways from Sunday, but at least they're trying to navigate an incredibly delicate situation.  That's better to me than the PBA handling the issue like Kevin Bacon at the end of Animal House and pretending it doesn't exist.

Honestly, I’d almost wish they’d (USBC) had ignored it right now. They pooched the handling of this so bad.

The PBA knows they pooched this. It’s easy to side with the bowlers.

bradl

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Re: 6 More balls stripped of approval
« Reply #140 on: April 05, 2022, 05:31:29 PM »
Want to know why bowling is such a mess ... look no further than the USBC.

They tested balls yes ..... BUT THEY DID NOT ADHERE TO THEIR OWN POLICY !!!!

All balls must be sanded to 500 grit before testing -- THEY DIDN'T DO THIS !!!!!!

This ruling has ZERO integrity behind it !  -- It's pathetic that the governing body behind bowling at the national level has less integrity than a condo owners association. 

Who hires these idiots?

Wait.. You're expecting the USBC to take balls out from the field, resand them to 500 grit, then retest? Completely ignoring the fact that taking the polish off the ball results in them becoming harder again, as well as conversely the fact that adding polish can soften the surface of the ball?

What happened to at the point of testing, that the balls submitted to the USBC MUST ALREADY BE AT 500 GRIT BEFORE BEING HANDED TO THE USBC FOR TESTING!??

Who didn't do their job at that point? The USBC, or the manufacturer? JR Raymond even mentioned that it is up to the ball company to take them right off the lines at 500 grit and get them over to the USBC for testing. That isn't the USBC's problem, but the manufacturer's problem.

BL.

SVstar34

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Re: 6 More balls stripped of approval
« Reply #141 on: April 05, 2022, 06:34:31 PM »
Want to know why bowling is such a mess ... look no further than the USBC.

They tested balls yes ..... BUT THEY DID NOT ADHERE TO THEIR OWN POLICY !!!!

All balls must be sanded to 500 grit before testing -- THEY DIDN'T DO THIS !!!!!!

This ruling has ZERO integrity behind it !  -- It's pathetic that the governing body behind bowling at the national level has less integrity than a condo owners association. 

Who hires these idiots?

Wait.. You're expecting the USBC to take balls out from the field, resand them to 500 grit, then retest? Completely ignoring the fact that taking the polish off the ball results in them becoming harder again, as well as conversely the fact that adding polish can soften the surface of the ball?

What happened to at the point of testing, that the balls submitted to the USBC MUST ALREADY BE AT 500 GRIT BEFORE BEING HANDED TO THE USBC FOR TESTING!??

Who didn't do their job at that point? The USBC, or the manufacturer? JR Raymond even mentioned that it is up to the ball company to take them right off the lines at 500 grit and get them over to the USBC for testing. That isn't the USBC's problem, but the manufacturer's problem.

BL.


I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

I'm confused by the FAQ saying that "spot check balls are purchased from distribution". Assuming they tested the balls at OOB finish, that would be polished for all of the 6(7 if you include the Spectre).

But initial approval testing is done at 500 grit? That seems to be contradictory and initial approval testing should be done on balls at the manufacturer out of box finish.

avabob

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Re: 6 More balls stripped of approval
« Reply #142 on: April 05, 2022, 07:09:51 PM »
Can you say FIASCO.

bradl

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Re: 6 More balls stripped of approval
« Reply #143 on: April 05, 2022, 07:11:07 PM »
Want to know why bowling is such a mess ... look no further than the USBC.

They tested balls yes ..... BUT THEY DID NOT ADHERE TO THEIR OWN POLICY !!!!

All balls must be sanded to 500 grit before testing -- THEY DIDN'T DO THIS !!!!!!

This ruling has ZERO integrity behind it !  -- It's pathetic that the governing body behind bowling at the national level has less integrity than a condo owners association. 

Who hires these idiots?

Wait.. You're expecting the USBC to take balls out from the field, resand them to 500 grit, then retest? Completely ignoring the fact that taking the polish off the ball results in them becoming harder again, as well as conversely the fact that adding polish can soften the surface of the ball?

What happened to at the point of testing, that the balls submitted to the USBC MUST ALREADY BE AT 500 GRIT BEFORE BEING HANDED TO THE USBC FOR TESTING!??

Who didn't do their job at that point? The USBC, or the manufacturer? JR Raymond even mentioned that it is up to the ball company to take them right off the lines at 500 grit and get them over to the USBC for testing. That isn't the USBC's problem, but the manufacturer's problem.

BL.


I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

I'm confused by the FAQ saying that "spot check balls are purchased from distribution". Assuming they tested the balls at OOB finish, that would be polished for all of the 6(7 if you include the Spectre).

But initial approval testing is done at 500 grit? That seems to be contradictory and initial approval testing should be done on balls at the manufacturer out of box finish.

Nope.. not being sarcastic. It had been mentioned in a few sources more knowledgeable in the process that when the balls are produced for inspection, they are presented to the USBC at 500-grit, and that is what the USBC uses for testing. If it passes then, they're good. If it doesn't, there's a problem. What was being called into scrutiny about integrity is if the USBC tested them at 500 grit, meaning either that when the balls were submitted, they were not at 500 grit, and that it is the USBC's responsibility to return them to 500 grit prior to testing. That isn't the USBC's responsibility to do. The ball manufacturer needs to submit it to the USBC at that condition (500 grit) so that the USBC can not be called into scrutiny for modifying a ball prior to testing, therefore contaminating their own process for certification of a ball.

Further, in a video posted by JR Raymond, it was even surmised that the balls going to the USBC for testing are ones that would come straight off the line and go directly to the USBC for testing.

Now to address if the ball should be at OOB finish, that's where we come into an even bigger problem - which actually might be the crux of the matter - as we know that not only does color affect the hardness of the ball, but polish does as well. From the FAQ:

USBC testing does confirm that removing the surface finish polish by sanding will cause the balls to measure harder.

If a ball is at 500 grit for its testing and passes that test, then is taken to OOB finish, when it hits OOB finish, it could fall under spec, causing it to get subsequently revoked. If at OOB finish for its testing, the ball should pass. if it doesn't, revoke them, and fix the problem. But either way, it is not the USBC's responsibility to take the ball to 500 for the test, nor take it to OOB finish for its test. That responsibility should fall to the ball company.

BL.

billdozer

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Re: 6 More balls stripped of approval
« Reply #144 on: April 06, 2022, 08:44:43 AM »
If the USBC tests at 500 grit then the balls they're testing and holding storm to should be at.
 This is probably why storm wants those back, if they sanded them back to 500 grit...and they ALL test above 73.... Who's at fault here.
Definitely screwy.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2022, 08:51:16 AM by billdozer »
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Juggernaut

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Re: 6 More balls stripped of approval
« Reply #145 on: April 06, 2022, 12:52:12 PM »
You know what?

 How much does a point (or two) of hardness REALLY make at the level most of us bowl? I get that the balls are "out of spec", but having a ball check out at 71.1 isn't that far from the 73D required.

 USBC could've just quietly gone to Storm and said "Hey, were finding quite a few of your balls getting out of spec. You need to fix that, and we'll be watching. In the mean time, we're going to put out a statement that we found a problem, and are working with the manufacturer to ensure that it gets corrected.

 Nothing gets banned, nothing gets kicked out, bowlers continue to use their stuff happily, and Storm just gets to come out with a new lineup "out of season" so to speak.

 If I can put up with some of the CRAP that USBC does, surely I could survive bowling against other amateur bowlers using a ball that's only 71 hardness, right?
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billdozer

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Re: 6 More balls stripped of approval
« Reply #146 on: April 06, 2022, 01:30:10 PM »
You know what?

 How much does a point (or two) of hardness REALLY make at the level most of us bowl? I get that the balls are "out of spec", but having a ball check out at 71.1 isn't that far from the 73D required.

 USBC could've just quietly gone to Storm and said "Hey, were finding quite a few of your balls getting out of spec. You need to fix that, and we'll be watching. In the mean time, we're going to put out a statement that we found a problem, and are working with the manufacturer to ensure that it gets corrected.

 Nothing gets banned, nothing gets kicked out, bowlers continue to use their stuff happily, and Storm just gets to come out with a new lineup "out of season" so to speak.

 If I can put up with some of the CRAP that USBC does, surely I could survive bowling against other amateur bowlers using a ball that's only 71 hardness, right?

Agreed.

In the urethane world it might mean a lil more movement but in the world of reactives...I don't think so much.
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SVstar34

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Re: 6 More balls stripped of approval
« Reply #147 on: April 06, 2022, 01:37:07 PM »
You know what?

 How much does a point (or two) of hardness REALLY make at the level most of us bowl? I get that the balls are "out of spec", but having a ball check out at 71.1 isn't that far from the 73D required.

 USBC could've just quietly gone to Storm and said "Hey, were finding quite a few of your balls getting out of spec. You need to fix that, and we'll be watching. In the mean time, we're going to put out a statement that we found a problem, and are working with the manufacturer to ensure that it gets corrected.

 Nothing gets banned, nothing gets kicked out, bowlers continue to use their stuff happily, and Storm just gets to come out with a new lineup "out of season" so to speak.

 If I can put up with some of the CRAP that USBC does, surely I could survive bowling against other amateur bowlers using a ball that's only 71 hardness, right?

I agree and disagree.

The rules are the rules that every one has to follow. 3 of the balls were measuring under 72D and 3 were measuring over 72D.

I think I would have had leniency on the 3 that were still over 72D, but again everyone is supposed to be following the rules/specifications.

txbowler

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Re: 6 More balls stripped of approval
« Reply #148 on: April 06, 2022, 02:17:51 PM »
There was a video posted by CTD (creating the difference) that showed what difference softness makes.  Don't have a link to it currently but I am guessing it's on YouTube somewhere.  Watch that video and see if you still say softness doesn't matter.  A tough sport pattern was made to look like an easy house shot with a soft ball.


avabob

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Re: 6 More balls stripped of approval
« Reply #149 on: April 06, 2022, 03:28:48 PM »
I am sure a soft ball could make a given pattern play easier than a hard ball.  However I could find a resin ball with the right surface prep and within the hardness rules do the same thing.  This isn't like the 70s where polyester balls were all that was available and softness was the only variable option.  I had a 67 hardness Sur D at the 1976 ABC tourney in OK City.  I shot 693 on the burn but died on the carry down on the fresh pattern the next day.  Give me even a first generation resin ball and I would have shot 730 on the burn and gutted out 600s on the fresh.

Resin and surface prep are more important than hardness in today's environment. 
 

SVstar34

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Re: 6 More balls stripped of approval
« Reply #150 on: April 06, 2022, 03:40:02 PM »
I am sure a soft ball could make a given pattern play easier than a hard ball.  However I could find a resin ball with the right surface prep and within the hardness rules do the same thing.  This isn't like the 70s where polyester balls were all that was available and softness was the only variable option.  I had a 67 hardness Sur D at the 1976 ABC tourney in OK City.  I shot 693 on the burn but died on the carry down on the fresh pattern the next day.  Give me even a first generation resin ball and I would have shot 730 on the burn and gutted out 600s on the fresh.

Resin and surface prep are more important than hardness in today's environment. 
 

Even USBC's FAQ says that they have hardness as only the 9th most important factor out of 13 performance characteristics. This was added on their explanation of only banning the balls from national competitions, since 97% of leagues are on house shot conditions.

14. Why is this not as impactful as on typical USBC league house condition?

Ongoing USBC testing among ball performance has identified 13 categories that impact
reaction characteristics. Hardness is number nine on that list, which has less impact overall.

House conditions inherently are more forgiving. The area a player has is greater on house
conditions, and the reaction of a ball is more predictable from a variety of angles. The
impact of a bowling ball being softer is not as great.

On demanding Sport conditions, where down lane reaction is more severe, a bowling ball
which is softer may provide a more predictable reaction, and potentially an advantage.