win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: 9 pin fever.... advise please  (Read 3794 times)

cav

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
  • Baseball, Chess, and Bowling...in that order
9 pin fever.... advise please
« on: March 23, 2013, 07:20:15 PM »
Hello,

I'm probably like many many bowlers here, avg. around 200,  and play a fairly straight line up the 10 board.  Some weeks I have no problem hitting the pocket, carrying most pocket hits and bowling between 650-700.  Other weeks, same house, same ball...I hit the pocket and continually leave the 10 pin, 7 pin, or 8 pin.  What can players like us do to reduce the amount of single pin leaves?  It's very frustrating to pound the pocket and leave a stone 10 pin.  Thank you in advance. ;D

Cav :o
Teacher and Chess coach from Cleveland, Ohio..Go Tribe!

Global 900 Protocol, Storm mostly

 

charlest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24526
Re: 9 pin fever.... advise please
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2013, 08:14:56 PM »
You're not hitting the pocket. You think you are because you're not looking close enough.

Stoned 8 pins are the only true right handed tap, mostly because today's balls hit too hard and the pins react too violently. It's a dead flush but the headpin, instead of going into the 2 and 4 and 7 pin, bounces off the 2 pin sideways, directly into the 5 pin. It knocks the 5 pin straight back before the ball hits the 5 pin. Therefore, there's nothing to knock down the 8 pin. The ball normally hits the 5 pin into the 8 pin. So, it sits there laughing at you/me.

On normal right handed strikes the ball hits only the 1 pin, 3 pin, 5 pin and 9 pin. Some recent pundits claim the ball should split/hit both the 8 pin and the 9 pin these days. I've seen it and done it; not 100% sure it's correct 100% of the time.

Ringing 10 pins go too long and hit "behind" the head pin because of their angle of entry. Some actually happen because you didn't hit the head pin thin enough. I've seen thin pocket hit that would normally leave a 10 pin, but the 6 pin comes off the side board (instead of wrapping around the 10 pin) and hits it sideways.

Weak 10 pins are the result of balls burning up a hair too much in the midlane and hitting weakly.

Apparent "solid" 7 pins are a hair too high and the 2 or the 4 pin go spinning around in opposite directions. This is close to the idea of the stoned 8 pin, but it is actually a hair too high. The 7 pin could go, if you got lucky and the 2 or the 4 pin hit it coming off the side board.

9 pins are just high hits in which you were lucky and got pin action to knock down the 4 and the 7 pin. Back in the urethane era, the 4/7/9 woudl be sitting there. Be glad you have only a single pin sitting there.

All of this is due to variations in ball speed, release, and targeting, plus the fact that you didn't get lucky. You need to be more consistent or more lucky, one of the two.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2013, 12:26:29 PM by charlest »
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Dave81644

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1662
Re: 9 pin fever.... advise please
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2013, 10:26:23 PM »
If you truly want to "learn" how to carry.
Then Charlest advice is spot on.
It will take effort on your part.

learn as much as you can about the game, read, mag subscription, utube vids.
lessons possibly.
improve your fundamentals.
practice, practice and practice your spares.

all of these things will only make you better.

Juggernaut

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6498
  • Former good bowler, now 3 games a week house hack.
Re: 9 pin fever.... advise please
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2013, 11:55:41 AM »
 To "add" to what charlest has stated, learn to watch what the ball does after it initially contacts the headpin, and as it travels through the pins and off the back of the pindeck.

 The path it takes through the pins, and the point at which it leaves the deck, can tell you much about what the ball is actually doing and, perhaps, why one ball carries where the other doesn't.

 It can also tell you which way to go with your ball choices to achieve the best resulting pin action, entry angle, and exit point.
Learn to laugh, and love, and smile, cause we’re only here for a little while.

Backwards

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 37
Re: 9 pin fever.... advise please
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2013, 12:26:51 PM »
Not to add complexity, but it should be noted that house-to-house variations exist on the best types of hits to maximize carry.  I frequent several houses locally and each needs a slightly different path through the pins to optimize carry.  Two most extreme examples:
House 1 - very old wood lanes, old pinsetters (visibly off-spot), old pins (some cracked), dead side boards, deep gutters.  Best carry is the light pocket mixer, or you'll see lots of 4s,7s,10s.
House 2 - not new synthetics, well-maintained pinsetters, new pins, lively side boards, flat gutters.  Best carry with high entry angle hits that throw pins off the side boards.

My advice - watch the path through the deck that is being used by those that carry better than you.

trash heap

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2648
Re: 9 pin fever.... advise please
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2013, 10:26:23 AM »
Another suggestion.

If you have a video camera, set it on a tri-pod during open bowling. Have the video just on the pin deck. After watching some of your hits you will see what you ball is actually doing down there. Knowledge is the key. 

 
Talkin' Trash!

Polish_Hammer

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
Re: 9 pin fever.... advise please
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2013, 02:13:56 PM »
Not to pile on but......if all you had to do was hit the pocket this would be an easy game. Juggernaut has the best advice for understanding what your ball is actually doing.  If you can watch the ball all the way through the pindeck you will have a different opinion on a what a truely great shot is.  Takes a lot of discipline to watch the ball that long and prevents you from showboating and running out shots.

swingset

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 96
  • Captain of the Short Bus
Re: 9 pin fever.... advise please
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2013, 05:10:17 PM »
You've been given some good reasons why it happens, and what to look for, but what to do about it?

Something has to change in the speed, revs and angle that the ball is hitting the pocket - often a very small change in any of these will give the desired effect.

There are some things you can try, all depends on your game and your ability to adjust.

Move up on your approach slightly, this can change the speed and angle just a tiny bit and start carrying single pin leaves.

Change your release slightly, a little more behind the ball, or a little more to the side on release....side revs, or a later drive, both can start carrying when you're leaving.

Change ball...sometimes a similar reacting ball but with just enough difference in lane behavior can kick the pins around favorably.

Lots of stuff you can do. The important thing is to have the tools and comfort with them to address these issues on the lane, as you play them.
The only sports worth playing serve alcohol during gameplay.

Elimeno Pee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
Re: 9 pin fever.... advise please
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2013, 08:06:46 PM »
i've had several balls now that if i release around the side of the ball even slightly, visually the ball will react the same, but infact it has a different rotation on it, and it's a 10 pin everytime.when i release it correctly behind the ball, it will finish the rack.
Wise bowler told me once: K.I.S.S.   Keep it simple stupid.

Hyper Cell
Freak
Freak Out
Profit
Totally Defiant
Pursuit
C-System Versa Max
Defiant

swingset

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 96
  • Captain of the Short Bus
Re: 9 pin fever.... advise please
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2013, 08:25:21 AM »
i've had several balls now that if i release around the side of the ball even slightly, visually the ball will react the same, but infact it has a different rotation on it, and it's a 10 pin everytime.when i release it correctly behind the ball, it will finish the rack.

Somtimes, I do the opposite if I'm leaving. It depends on the lane. If I'm behind the ball on a long pattern, the angle is wrong or the drive is too strong and I'll leave singles. In that case, a side rotation still works because it skids through the oil and still has enough energy at the back to plow through but with more revs.

And, sometimes I get behind the ball more.

There are a lot of things that individually can cause or fix carry.
The only sports worth playing serve alcohol during gameplay.

Elimeno Pee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 616
Re: 9 pin fever.... advise please
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2013, 02:35:40 PM »
i've had several balls now that if i release around the side of the ball even slightly, visually the ball will react the same, but infact it has a different rotation on it, and it's a 10 pin everytime.when i release it correctly behind the ball, it will finish the rack.

Somtimes, I do the opposite if I'm leaving. It depends on the lane. If I'm behind the ball on a long pattern, the angle is wrong or the drive is too strong and I'll leave singles. In that case, a side rotation still works because it skids through the oil and still has enough energy at the back to plow through but with more revs.

And, sometimes I get behind the ball more.

There are a lot of things that individually can cause or fix carry.

Agreed on the fix is not always the same from one to another.  What baffles me is how a 215+ average bowler, and you know the type of bowler i'm speaking of, leaves a 10 pin (7 pin for lefty), and blames the lanes and oil, but never adjusts the minute adjustments, throws the same shot, and still gets upset when they don't fall.  Really makes me laugh sometimes (inside).  I bowl with one of these on my team, and he gets so frustrated, and starts hitting things, but won't realize that his ringing 7 pin needs a slight adjustment, right or forward.

So glad to be branching off next year.... lol
Wise bowler told me once: K.I.S.S.   Keep it simple stupid.

Hyper Cell
Freak
Freak Out
Profit
Totally Defiant
Pursuit
C-System Versa Max
Defiant