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Author Topic: A Poll  (Read 2580 times)

SrKegler

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A Poll
« on: May 15, 2005, 03:04:17 AM »
I know you guys are tired of all the USBC posts.  Sorry but I am concerned about our sport, just looking for ideas.  E-mails to the USBC have been answered fast and without thought.  None of the cut and paste answers I used to get from the ABC.

Since most of you seem to be against the current proposals, I thought I'd see what you guys think they should do.

If you were running the USBC, what changes would you make and why.

Thanks, Darold
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~~~SrK - Have balls, will travel

Spending the kids inheritance one tournament at a time.
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azguy

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Re: A Poll
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2005, 11:23:47 AM »
I do not have any scores close to those posted all over ( ie 280's and up), but as an old golfer...

You have as many different golf clubs as balls, the only one constant between players, golf or bowling or horse shoes, is the 'playing field'..the lanes and the perp work done on them.
Yes, I know there's wood and synthetic, but as a hole, that's the one constant.
I would makes changes in the lanes, the oils and the pins. We all throw different weights, different drills, different brands/types of balls, but we all throw on some sort of lanes, hit some sort of pins. If it were me, I'd start there. Require a center to have different patterns, make awards according to the pattern you had at the time. Make the pins a bit different, not sure what, but as I said, this is one constant we all use.

I will probably be dead 3 years before I ever reach the 300 mark, but I do enjoy working toward that goal. I would not take as much amazement in achieve it as long as the 'wall' is up helping me ( although I need all the help I can get) but to equal my achievement against those out there that achieved the same on a PBA pattern, or some other type that was no 'help' in the goal of the 300.

I, personally, would want a group of Pros, a group of 220-280 shooters,a group of 100-200 shooters to all sit down and say what they think would be the best direction, lump together, make changes from there. At least, there would be the feeling that each group of bowlers were listened to, heard, and had a part in the changes, good or bad. To have something shoved down your throat, is the feeling that the "Higher Ups" don't care what the masses want/need/desire.

Said to much already.
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C-G ProShop-Carl

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Re: A Poll
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2005, 12:36:00 PM »
SrKegler,

I read Ebonite's response to the proposed changes and I agree totally. They are making changes after changes and they have not done studies to see if the changes have worked.

I am sticking to my guns, I believe if you want scores to go down you have to change the lane conditions. Go shorter with the oil, or go longer. Require more in the outside "wall". Whatever. It is my belief that if you keep the lane conditions the way they are you can lebel drill everything and still have the scores that you have today.
I once again will use my example of the Manhattan Rubber. I found one on the ball rack that fit me perfectly so I threw it a little bit. I had to square up and play dead up 8 board, but I shot 299 with it.

Equipment is important, but the ease of the lane conditions is what creates the scores.

-EX-
Carl Hurd

Austintown Ohio (Wedgewood Lanes)

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drillbit

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Re: A Poll
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2005, 02:59:52 AM »
I think there was an FIQ oil unit minimum of 5, at one point. If they(USBC) made the minimum 5 units instead of 3, that would be a good starting point. They should also have a maximum oil ratio of, say 5 to 1(or whatever); still a little bit of help to the wide side, but nothing like I usually see nowadays. The last thing I'd like to see is, not heavier pins, but SINGLE-void pins, not the double-void ones out now. Let the pins bounce like Mexican jumping beans, just don't make them so easy to knock over.

As to coverstocks, I probably wouldn't ban particles. The proposal to limit particle hardness might be the best thing to do.

drillbit

charlest

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Re: A Poll
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2005, 06:41:04 AM »
I'd be inclined to make changes that the bowler can't see and preferably does not know about and ones that do not cost bowling proprietors or bowling supply manufacturers extra money.

1. Enforce the current rules about gutter depths. Most gutters are now not as deep as they should be. This would help prevent many but not all pins from coming up and out of the gutter to knock pins over.

2. Enforce the current rules about that minimum 3 units of oil at the edges of the lanes. I'd bet that most of you don't know that many house don't apply any oil out there in the 1-3 or 1 - 5 board area. Lots of houses STILL have older oil machines that can't oil out to the 1-3 board!

3. Remove the 2nd void from pins, but do it over time. Do not force bowling proprietors to buy new pins immediately. When they need to replace them, they get the new ones. And the current guidelines for the proper reaction of pins cannot be done by tetsing scores. Those new all plastic pins are an abomination. If a ball can too high a coefficient of restituition, so can the pins and these do.

Notes:

a) Changing oil patterns for some leagues are done now; so that's not a hardship for bowling centers. Have the "power" leagues use special more difficult patterns, not necessarily sport patterns. BUT these special patterns must be reflected in the local average book and in the USBC records, the way "Sport" patterns are now recognized.

b) The USBC must publish a strategy. If the objective of their current proposals is to "restore the integrity" of serious bowling, they must show us, their membership and constituents (this is politics, after all!) what their plans are. All we've seen are the "proposals". We don't really know their true purposes. With a published strategy, we can understand if their tactics are following their strategies. Without a long range plan (not the forte of Americans), any intermittent steps are purposeless.
 
c) Changes to balls should be silent. These must be meshed with manufacturers to insure they are doable. The average bowler, even the average good bowler has no need to know some of the technical aspects of the design of bowling balls. As an example, one of the most vital of specifications, the coefficient of restituiton, is never measured for each type of ball (coverstock PLUS core) manufactured; it does not appear in the ball's specifications and it should. But then we might not recognize what it really means to us, even if we saw those numbers. The only numbers, the only specifications we see for any ball are the core's and they CANNOT predict a ball's behavior at all, NOT EVER, when taken alone. (It's hysterical how many, many people here at ballreviews post threads saying, "the core's specs are xxxx; therefore the ball must act like yyyy." Balderdash!)

Yes, of course, some of these technical aspects are of interest. I mean, how many people really know what the degree of mass bias (or PSA) differential really means to them. Do they understand how it relates to the bowler's release and the ball's surface's coefficient of friction, with respect to the lane's oil amount, pattern AND the lane surface?? Of course, not! They just look at the number, their eyes fog over, like a deer in the headlights, their brain goes numb and they drool at the mouth, saying, "Gee, does that mean it goes longer and hooks more?" (OK, 2 out of 1000 knows what the numbers mean.)


OK, that's for starters.


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Just like hand grenades and horse shoes, in bowling you only have to get close ...
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cgilyeat

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Re: A Poll
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2005, 09:00:49 AM »
charlest,

Great suggestions, and I agree that most would work, but I just don't think that the folks at the USBC are smart enough to recgonize the benefits of making them.

Ragnar

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Re: A Poll
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2005, 09:50:15 AM »
IMO, Bob Hanson has this nailed.  We start with controlling surface grit and particle content.  Pretty much anything else I might add was already covered by Charlest.
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"To plunder, to slaughter, to steal, these things they misname empire; and where they make a wilderness, they call it peace."  (Tacitus)
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DON DRAPER

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Re: A Poll
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2005, 10:39:13 AM »
eliminate particle technology from the bowling balls, go to slightly heavier pins, and put more oil on the outsides of the lanes.

LuckyLefty

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Re: A Poll
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2005, 11:20:44 AM »
There is no reason that bowling isn't fine now!

I go to many centers that are hard and many centers that are easy!
Just like golf courses!

Neither one prevents players from playing EXCEPT the hard difficult course scare away the bad players or demoralize them.

Same as with difficult patterns.

In my area I think I bowled in a league with some fine bowlers (many win tournies all over the state without a 300).

I've gone to other centers and 300 are raining down.

I enjoy both and both different sets of mental challenges.

Bowlers are not coming to bowling because top bowlers today average in the 230s and top bowlers of yesterday were lucky to bowl 210 +.

NO they come to the center because bowling is either fun or it's not fun.

I bowl on many centers to day where the lane surface is rock hard anvilane and frankly the surface prep can be messed up real good by open play or even practice.  These lanes are really touchy and often going in to your center is not much different than going to a travel league!  NOt fun.  Unless your goal is to be on the protour.

Bowling should not be for the protour.  Bowling should be for the average guy who makes up the majority of the bowlers!  This guy walks in a throws, once a week.  He is not the average ball reviews member.  He wants to have a good time and maybe get a 250 patch each year!  To average 180 this year... his wife over 170!

Leagues should be shorter.  Many people stay away because of the long committment.

Nothing about bowling needs to be changed to restore the integrity of the past.
220 today is like 200 of yesterday great!  Move on with your life.

The pro tour regional tours etc. can do anything they want to restore integrity .

The best way is like the PGA tour.  Some easier scoring tournies and then the majors.  Just like the PGA tour.

The focus should be on covenience and enjoyment not hassle for the majority of bowlers.  Getting a scoring standard to move backwards will shrink bowling back further.  Dumbest set of ideas ever.

Marketing and ease of use should be the goal of organizations running bowling!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS to compare to golf, if Tiger Woods went back to the courses Lord Byron averaged 68 on Tiger would probably average 64.5!  Why..? the scoring wedges!
If Lord Byron came back and was 45 and used today's clubs and balls he would do the same!
Everytime the US tour goes back to an old site they tear it apart, unless it is heavily tricked up!
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Oskuposer

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Re: A Poll
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2005, 01:01:36 PM »
The way i see it now if your going to average 200 on a THS then average 200.  Then go to a sport shot and average 150 dont cry about it.  They shouldnt chnage it because houses are still going to disobey.  the old saying is "Rules are ment to be broken"  I agree in some of the tourneys i go to its who can put the ball to one area the most times that wins there is no skill involved.  But you cannot cry about a THS tourney that you shoot 690 on and miss the cut.  Even if it on a THS it still means that you have to make good shots no matter how easy it is.  I say dont chnage it so what if people are shooting more honor scores than before in league and tournaments.  The only thing i that think that the USBC should do is make it manditory for every center to have a minimum of 2 sport shot leagues one for youth bowlers and one for adults.
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C-G ProShop-Carl

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Re: A Poll
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2005, 01:13:40 PM »
Out of all of the suggestions I have read so far the one that confuses me the most is elimination particle equipment. Scores were out of hand long before particle ball hit the mainstream fellas. Resin is what started the scoring.

Carl Hurd

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C-G ProShop-Carl

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Re: A Poll
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2005, 01:27:34 PM »
A dull resin ball sponge more than its share of oil from a pattern.
Carl Hurd

Austintown Ohio (Wedgewood Lanes)

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Oskuposer

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Re: A Poll
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2005, 02:05:44 PM »
What Bob said is wrong there are still going to be over protecting parents that dont want to see their kids get a cut or god forbide a broken bone.  That is why youth bowling will still be in.  Plus no rain outs.
P.S. This is why i started baseball was becoming to easy i got bored with it 4 one tournament i hit 1000 there was no real challenge.  That is why i love bowling it is always a challenge to do your best against yourself and the lane and your oponent.
--------------------
Good bowlers use the big B and when they do they create a Storm
Kiall Hill
A.K.A.
The Chipmunk
"Its a trip 4 fest"
"God Dam it"
"Yea but the Brunswick ones get all ten down"