Post by: Ric Clint on December 31, 2003, 01:31:39 AM
Yesterday my friend is throwing his Track SPELL (I have 2 of them also) which is a Higher RG ball so it naturally gets length just by the core alone.
Well, he takes a tip from another bowler and decides to sand it down to 320 grit with scotchbrite to see if it will work on a true FLOOD... well it does!!!
We couldn't beleive the backend of the ball on a Heavier Oiled shot like this!
Other guys were using SANDED down V2 Strong's, Super Carbide Bomb's, and Phenom's, etc (and it looked like they were all just weak around the corner even on a FRESH shot)... and this sanded Higher RG SPELL was out hooking all these other Lower RG balls on the backend EVEN on this FLOOD!!!
The theory:
Now I know that you can't really play for backend snap on Heavy Oil and that you need to just go after the "early roll" thing on Heavy Oil and play tight up the boards... BUT... I've heard all this stuff about these Lower RG particle ball losing too much energy and not having nothing left for the backend EVEN on Heavy Oil...
...so why not take a Higher RG particle ball and sand it down and use it on Heavy Oil???
See, the Higher RG core will give you a little more length and save more energy for the backend and the sanded particle coverstock will still give you the midlane roll (as if it were a Lower RG ball) that you need on Heavy Oil... and all this equals up to a powerful ball that hooks more on a Heavy Oil shot than some of these Lower RG particle balls that may just waist too much energy early on and not hook on the backend.
So do you see where I'm going with this???
It works!!!
Post by: RandyO on December 31, 2003, 04:51:20 PM
Post by: RackTheRipper on December 31, 2003, 04:54:02 PM
--------------------
RacK
Post by: charlest on December 31, 2003, 05:29:04 PM
FYI once you sand the cover to 320, you all but remove the RG aspect of the core from the picture. The flare will matter much more than how low or how high the RG of the core is. Surface rules drilling. It may be hooking more just because it's sanded so low PLUS it is a particle ball.
I must retract some of the above based on RandyO's experience, as stated below. I find it hard to believe, but since he has personally experienced that, and due to the nature of him and his history here on ballreviews, I accept that as fact. See my comments under Randy's post.
--------------------
"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."
Edited on 12/31/2003 9:40 PM
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on December 31, 2003, 05:31:59 PM
Post by: charlest on December 31, 2003, 06:41:58 PM
quote:
Yea, but do they carry?
--------------------
buzztracker
That depends on whether you have enough oil to handle the degree of sanding, so that the ball still retains enough energy when it hits the pocket. Only AFTER that is true does the angle of entry come into play.
--------------------
"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."
Post by: RandyO on December 31, 2003, 07:29:33 PM
Post by: charlest on December 31, 2003, 08:40:21 PM
Maybe one day I'll be able to try it. As of this moment in time, I can't even imagine seeing enough oil to use anything sanded to 320 grit. I am inclined to believe when there's that much oil and you're using such a sanded ball, the RG has less and less influence. However, that is just a belief; in practice I will take your word for it.
On heavy oil the roughest I have used is 1000 grit and 1200 grit on stronger resin solids. Back in the days of short oil and urethanes I barely ever able to use a Blue Hammer I had bought. It was all but useless on 99% of all conditions I saw. The one I had wouldn't polish up for no amount off money, but that's another issue.
--------------------
"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."
Edited on 12/31/2003 10:39 PM
Post by: htotheizzo3561 on December 31, 2003, 09:12:48 PM
What is the lowest grit possible for a bowling ball? 320 is there anything lower
Post by: RandyO on December 31, 2003, 09:32:09 PM
Post by: channel surfer on December 31, 2003, 11:05:32 PM
quote:
If I remember right, there was a rule that a ball could not be sanded below
220 grit. At least that is what someone told me, but I never went to the rule book.
Dal
Sure its not under 320?? hmm... Im gonna go check real quick.
ON EDIT: COULD NOT FIND IN ABC RULE BOOK ABOUT THE LOWEST LEGAL SURFACE GRIT
--------------------
My Bowling Clinic Site: http://csbowling.vze.com
ASK A PRO:http://csbowling.vze.com/atp.shtml
www.bowlersdream.com - save an additional $3 off any $100 order by simply typing in CSB into the coupon code area at checkout.
Edited on 1/1/2004 0:11 AM
Post by: Ric Clint on January 07, 2004, 03:45:24 AM
quote:
I think the point Ric was trying to make is the type of ball to be sanded. If one takes an already aggressive ball with a low rg and sands it, the result might be that the ball would burn up too quickly, whereas take a high rg ball and sand it, the ball should get farther down the lane saving energy, but still have enough friction to turn the corner.
Is that right Ric? Bones
YES!!! That's EXACTLY my point!!!
Post by: LuckyLefty on January 07, 2004, 04:42:47 AM
It is a big backend ball with lots of differential.
Usually gets down the lane pretty well if sanded in the "Normal range" of 600 to 1000.
I've had many interesting experiences on heavy oil particularly on the left where sometimes they really like to play the FTL game(Flood the lefties").
One tournament was set up to keep the lefties out of advancing. Out of 1300 entries two lefties barely advanced to a semifinal of 150 and both were PBA tourists. One a winner.
So wet that most lefties were just pointing up 6 and 7. I shot once with a standard pro Zone Azure and couldn't even wrinkle. Went back home came back with the Pro Zone sanded to 320 and could actually swing about a board and strike. Other lefties couldn't even swing a board off straight to the pocket. Had two 240 games in the set but we won't talk about the other game and just missed advancing. Not other lefties with a 200 in the squad.
Read about the same time about Mike Aulby using a ball around the same time at 220!
Then got the chance to bowl on an almost 50 foot shot that just almost had no backend both sides. Tried the above 320 particle and just couldn't really get the look. NO real hit or pop. Grabbed a polished Demolition Zone, moved up on the approach held the ball low, threw with lots of soft handed revs(for me) at about 12 mph and got some movement AND pop at the back and started striking!
Except for some mediocre sparemaking (which I always find difficult when this wet) would have advanced easily.
There are different types of wet patterns.
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS Ric is your surface all wood? I forget. I've found low rg particles work great on wet synthetics and then the above reactive was on wood!
PPS I know I've seen Bob Hanson talk about using polished reactives on heavy oil at times too!
Post by: charlest on January 07, 2004, 03:11:58 PM
But it seems there are so many variables involved in this discussion, I think we are not going to reach any firm conclusions.
BTW Ric, as someone else of on one of your other "Heavy Oil Ball" threads mentioned, I wonder if you're really encountering TRUE heavy oil. Any chance of getting the number of units from the lane man. Then someone can tell us if this is really heavy oil.
--------------------
"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."
Post by: Strider on January 08, 2004, 01:48:02 AM
quote:
sanded a tombstone to 120 for a tourney for a chance to win a vette.
that was heavy oul,shot 645,just missed cut to top 3.
Don't you mean you polished it to 120? I thought those things came out of the box at 80 grit!
j/k Man, the Tombstone made cement look shiny.--------------------
Penn State Proud
Post by: Ric Clint on May 18, 2004, 06:55:46 AM
I set my preferences back as far as they would go, but that was only to like the last 120 days... it used to go back to to the last 365 days.
Why did they change the preferences so that we couldn't go back as far as we used to could?
Ps... If you read my theory above, just to let ya'll know - I'm still having success on Heavier Oil with my theory above, about 95% of the time! Try it out, you'll see!
Post by: DP3 on May 18, 2004, 02:29:23 PM
--------------------
-DJ Marshall
"Repetition beats luck everytime"
Post by: LuckyLefty on May 19, 2004, 12:01:27 AM
You and I have talked about this a bit in the past.
I have found that the heavy rolling low rg balls, work great on league heavy oil(where there is dry to the outside of the shot). The reason they work great is because the low rg and heavily loaded coverstock give the ball a tendancy to work and start hooking even in the heads and midlane. This allows the ball to be swung from the inside oil out to the dry and then the dry kicks the ball back to the pocket. Balls like the Mayhem, Reaction Roll, AMF Evo Tour, Phenom and Throttle all fit this bill great!
However on tournament oil. ie long deep and OB outside of 10. I have found higher rg, whether sanded or not works great. One of my best balls was a polished Demolition Zone. I've also done well on shots like this with a shiny pearl Brunswick Battle Zone Bullet!
As you and I discussed this different oil shot, any swing(which low rg balls force one to do, does not allow the recovery on this shot once one aims even the least bit away from the pocket!!! As there is no dry to the sides but only at the end of the pattern. Therefore the key to this shot is to find a ball that allows one to point at the pocket. I often find a 8 at the arrows to 11 line at the breakpoint works real nice for me on this really tough shot!
After I find the ball that allows me to point, balls I've very successfully used have been my Demo Zone, BZ Bullet and also like you the trusty Track Spell(mine is at 1000 grit sheen). All medium to high rg. I then just fit the backend to the shot. If I can pick a correct backend for the condition and point(all high rg balls lead to a point more easily) plus slow my speed down to about 12 mph while still acceleratingsmoothly thru release. Then many are in trouble.
REgards,
Luckylefty
Post by: DP3 on May 19, 2004, 12:37:53 AM
Ric, you should look for a Nighthawk SPT or Revenge. Both have that spell core and both are excellent balls. They might fit you perfect. Or even something in the triumph line
--------------------
-DJ Marshall
"Repetition beats luck everytime"
Post by: TWOHAND834 on May 19, 2004, 12:50:35 AM
--------------------
If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!
Post by: Ric Clint on May 20, 2004, 07:25:10 AM
The more I practice this, the more I'm having success with Lucky's way to play that shot.
I know people will jump at me and say, "well, your ball was just losing energy!", when I say what I'm about to say below... but how can a ball lose energy on a FRESH heavy head oiled shot?
I've tried ALOT of Heavy Load particle balls and none of them provided me the backend that I liked (the Rock-On was one of the only Heavy Load particle balls that I ever liked), but I can get on that same shot with a Reaction REV or Track SPELL or MASS CHAOS with a scuffed coverstock and get more backend than I can with those Heavy Load particle balls! Which I guess, alot of that has to do with my soft speed, too.
Lucky's approach works great, but you've got to keep the speed under control!