Author Topic: A resignation at USBC (Read 15022 times)

Track_Fanatic · « **on:** February 04, 2014, 06:36:06 PM »

Just checked bowl.com and saw an article that Executive Director Stu Upson resigned today effective immediately. Why are most of these kinds of articles make you wonder what really happened.

Jorge300 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 06, 2014, 02:56:39 PM »

Quote from: Joe Cool on February 06, 2014, 01:47:16 PM

Do they really NEED all of that though? I know they WANT all of that, but I think they focus on what they want instead of what they need. All they really need is a place where they can lay down the lanes or a city with a larger center that has closed down. They don't need the booths, they don't need a meeting room, etc. They can make other options work, but the desire isn't there.

I'm not pushing either way, just playing devil's advocate. I can live with Vegas/Reno every year.

Joe Cool,
There are many bowlers who use the National tournament as their reasoning for a new ball purchase. I, for one, for many years bought maybe 1-2 new balls a year and I would always get one at Nationals. Without the booths, the tournament and the ball companies would lose a lot of money, something that is all too common in today's bowling landscape. The other thing you have to realize, as I saw it happen first hand, is that if a building is closed, the HVAC systems become compromised. Mold, Mildew and other such things quickly build up. If a building sits vacant and unused too long, the entire HVAC system would have to be replaced prior to it being able to be used by people for anything. The electrical systems also can become compromised, although not as quickly as the HVAC systems, and may need repair or replacement. While it's convenient to say just house it in a closed facility, reality is different matter altogether.

Perfect Approach Pro Shop · « **Reply #17 on:** February 06, 2014, 03:01:46 PM »

USBC should have tested in their home state if Texas before venturing out. Makes sense to keep travel costs to a minimum to see if a program is going to work first.

Joe - I do believe USBC got rid of the minimum length and 1 minimum on each board oiled requirement.

Joe Cool · « **Reply #18 on:** February 06, 2014, 03:07:51 PM »

Quote from: Jorge300 on February 06, 2014, 02:56:39 PM

Quote from: Joe Cool on February 06, 2014, 01:47:16 PM
Do they really NEED all of that though? I know they WANT all of that, but I think they focus on what they want instead of what they need. All they really need is a place where they can lay down the lanes or a city with a larger center that has closed down. They don't need the booths, they don't need a meeting room, etc. They can make other options work, but the desire isn't there.

I'm not pushing either way, just playing devil's advocate. I can live with Vegas/Reno every year.

Joe Cool,
There are many bowlers who use the National tournament as their reasoning for a new ball purchase. I, for one, for many years bought maybe 1-2 new balls a year and I would always get one at Nationals. Without the booths, the tournament and the ball companies would lose a lot of money, something that is all too common in today's bowling landscape. The other thing you have to realize, as I saw it happen first hand, is that if a building is closed, the HVAC systems become compromised. Mold, Mildew and other such things quickly build up. If a building sits vacant and unused too long, the entire HVAC system would have to be replaced prior to it being able to be used by people for anything. The electrical systems also can become compromised, although not as quickly as the HVAC systems, and may need repair or replacement. While it's convenient to say just house it in a closed facility, reality is different matter altogether.

The point Jorge is that they refuse to even examine other options. I'll bowl in Reno every year and be okay with it. I don't care personally, but you have to realize that at least a decent amount of the membership does.

Tex · « **Reply #19 on:** February 06, 2014, 06:37:21 PM »

I was on the Dallas board for many years. Took a break a few years back due to personal obligations and business. During my time I went to the USBC (ABC) convention on several occasions and once as an athlete since. At one point Dallas had the national tournament. The key was Dallas had a bond election scheduled to do a major revamp of our Fair Park area, including merging some structures into a massive convention center. Plan was the first event at the new convention center, the ABC Nationals. Long story short, bond election failed and Dallas withdrew from event. This same story has played out on several occasions in recent years, which is the main reason we have ended up at Reno so many times. Remember Disney and believe Witchita was the other recent. Bottom line is what was talked about earlier. Big cities like a Dallas, Ft. Worth, Houston or even Arlington don't need our tournament to fill their convention center. Man I wish they did just once, but unless something like the Dallas deal happened and passed well ain't gonna happen.

On inspections. I went from one of the in crowd to outsider due to throwing a fit over an announced inspection and the inspector telling the owner just put out something legal when I come out. He hinted he didn't care any other time. There are rules in place or were, and it even said that the inspections were to be unannounced. However there is no penalty to the bowling center if they fail. So no guts.

Jorge300 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 07, 2014, 08:52:47 AM »

Quote from: Joe Cool on February 06, 2014, 03:07:51 PM

The point Jorge is that they refuse to even examine other options. I'll bowl in Reno every year and be okay with it. I don't care personally, but you have to realize that at least a decent amount of the membership does.

Joe, You are missing the point. This is a bid processes. It isn't he USBC's job to go out and find a place....the places put their bids in when they WANT the tournament. Tex mentioned it in his post, the only way we get into places is when convention centers are brand new, and the tournament gets in before other events get booked, or the convention center has undergone a renovation and again we get in before they bring back their yearly commitments. Yes, the tournament brings a lot to a town, once. Most convention centers have shows that come year after year after year. Why would you throw them out, and take the chance that they won't come back for a one-time thing? Your post (and i'm not picking just on you) is the problem that most bowlers have, they get upset about going West, or going to Reno all the time and think the USBC is the issue. THe USBC only can pick from the candidates they are given, and like any business, they are going to pick the best deal. If you or anyone wants the tournament back East you need to work with you local civic center board, chamber of commerce, bowling association, casino if you have any, and put together a competitive bid to send to the USBC. If, and when you do that, and they don't pick....THEN you will have something to complain about.

Joe Cool · « **Reply #21 on:** February 07, 2014, 10:24:21 AM »

Quote from: Jorge300 on February 07, 2014, 08:52:47 AM

Quote from: Joe Cool on February 06, 2014, 03:07:51 PM
The point Jorge is that they refuse to even examine other options. I'll bowl in Reno every year and be okay with it. I don't care personally, but you have to realize that at least a decent amount of the membership does.

Joe, You are missing the point. This is a bid processes. It isn't he USBC's job to go out and find a place....the places put their bids in when they WANT the tournament. Tex mentioned it in his post, the only way we get into places is when convention centers are brand new, and the tournament gets in before other events get booked, or the convention center has undergone a renovation and again we get in before they bring back their yearly commitments. Yes, the tournament brings a lot to a town, once. Most convention centers have shows that come year after year after year. Why would you throw them out, and take the chance that they won't come back for a one-time thing? Your post (and i'm not picking just on you) is the problem that most bowlers have, they get upset about going West, or going to Reno all the time and think the USBC is the issue. THe USBC only can pick from the candidates they are given, and like any business, they are going to pick the best deal. If you or anyone wants the tournament back East you need to work with you local civic center board, chamber of commerce, bowling association, casino if you have any, and put together a competitive bid to send to the USBC. If, and when you do that, and they don't pick....THEN you will have something to complain about.

LOL - going around in circles.

When the standard is set too high to bid, they aren't going to get many bids, are they? They demand things they don't NEED to put on the tournament, then use lack of bids as the reason they have to have it in Reno, where they make a killing.

Mighty Fish · « **Reply #22 on:** February 07, 2014, 11:03:46 AM »

Dear jorge300 and Joe Cool:

Neither of you seem to be considering the likelihood that whereas many cities formerly desired the ABC/USBC tournament to come to their area, few(er) cities now consider it a big "plus" to make a bid for -- and hopefully secure -- a tournament.

freak761 · « **Reply #23 on:** February 07, 2014, 11:06:13 AM »

You got it, Joe Cool!

Joe Cool · « **Reply #24 on:** February 07, 2014, 11:12:49 AM »

Quote from: freak761 on February 07, 2014, 11:06:13 AM

You got it, Joe Cool!

I know. And I am fine with it being in Reno every year, but let's call a spade a spade.

txbowler · « **Reply #25 on:** February 07, 2014, 11:20:33 AM »

My point on lane oil (legal vs illegal) is the 3 units minimum rule. I thought that was still a requirement. Anywhere you apply oil, you must have a minimum of 3 units across the lane.

There are still houses that exist that run league shots with zero units outside 7 or so.

You can do a finger test and it will squeak!

Heck I even know of one house where the lane man, cut the buffer so it was impossible for any oil to be applied to the lane outside of 5. Haven't bowled there in 5+ years so maybe it has changed. But when inspection time came, he would install a different buffer the day the inspectors were coming to put out a legal shot.

Jorge300 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 07, 2014, 11:33:29 AM »

Joe,
We are only going in circles because of you. With the new format introduced last year, with fresh oil for doubles and singles, you need a minimum of 48 lanes in order to have the tournament run within the schedule it always has. Those 48 lanes and the machines needed to run them take up space, along with the setee area and seating. You can't get rid of that.

Second, you say the USBC doesn't NEED the booths, but you have never given any reason why. Why doesn't the USBC need those booths? That's rent that comes in to help offset the costs of putting the tournament on, would you be in favor of reducing the prize fund to cover the lost revenue by not having these booths, just to get the tournament into a smaller venue in the East? Or raising the cost of entry fee to do the same?

Lastly, you still haven't addressed why a city would throw out guaranteed yearly income, and events that may have booked years in advance just for housing this one time only event (or one time in 8-10 years other than Reno). Why would any city or convention center do that?

And something I hadn't thought of before, there are a lot on ancillary things that come along with the tournament. You need a local center willing to give up lanes and open play to host the Bowler's Journal tournament, another to host the 40 Frame Game, and potenitally a 3rd to host whatever form the BTM/1-2-3 may be in. Now this could all be one house but then you will lose all open play during the tournament run. Do you know any proprietors who would be willing to do that in your area? Also remember this will have an effect on your league bowlers too. Even stripping the lanes prior to league (which I doubt most houses would do) won't totally get rid of the harder shot. The house will have to deal with a lot of upset bowlers, as we have seen on this board how many just want their high scores no matter what. Well that won't happen bowling over the BJ, or BTM shots (if there is one this year).

So no circles here. Just solid reasoning.

Joe Cool · « **Reply #27 on:** February 07, 2014, 01:33:25 PM »

Seriously? Are you not reading what I've written? It certainly appears you are not.

The only thing that is needed is the tournament. That's it. NONE of the other stuff is necessary. I'm sure in 1900, all the ball companies weren't there peddling their goods in booths. The other tournaments? Not necessary. Maintaining the exact same schedule? Not necessary. It's a f'n bowling tournament.

Is this the national championship or is it a dog and pony show? The answer is they don't need any of the rest of it. They need a decent amount of lanes and nothing more. That is an absolute, undeniable fact. They decided they need booths ($$$). They decided it has to be 48+ ($$$). They decided they need the lockers ($$$). Notice a trend? None of this is for actual bowling reasons. In order to bowl the tournament, they need lanes. All the rest of it is to bring them more money.

It doesn't have to be in a convention center. There don't need to be booths. There doesn't need to be any side tournaments. They don't even need places for "fans". None of that is required to hold a tournament. None of that is required to make it special...this is the national championship. So ask yourself what is all of the fluff really for?

So to reiterate (since you still don't seem to be getting it): The reason nobody bids on the tournament is because they've made the minimum requirements to bid so ridiculously high that nobody bids. Then they use nobody bidding as an excuse to have it in Reno every year where they make a fortune from the casinos and save a fortune by not having to build anything. All the while they claim they are doing this in your best interests because you need all of those other things to have a good time at nationals.

The only minimum requirement should be space for a reasonable amount of lanes (or a center that can be utilized) and enough hotel rooms. If the ball companies want space, they can come up with a creative solution (trailers maybe?). If the other tournaments want to be there, they can find options.

Joe Cool · « **Reply #28 on:** February 07, 2014, 01:40:00 PM »

And again, not only do I have no probelm with Reno, I actually like going to Reno. Plenty of people do hate Reno though, and given the reasons USBC chooses Reno time and time again, I can't say I blame them. It's actually pretty shrewd of USBC. They manipulate the process to get exactly what they wanted. They even got the women to Reno at the same time in an attempt to increase participation so the numbers don't look quite as bad.

MTbowler · « **Reply #29 on:** February 07, 2014, 02:13:25 PM »

It doesn't help that every year they hold the championships outside of Reno (Baton Rouge for example) attendance drops dramatically. However, I do believe that Reno attendance will also start to drop due to the fatigue of the same city every year.

http://11thframe.com/news/article/5846

The article above is very interesting and states that they are building a new facility at South Point Casino in Vegas in order to rotate with Reno.

MTbowler · « **Reply #30 on:** February 07, 2014, 02:27:56 PM »

Attendance over the years (# of teams)

1992 Corpus Christi, Texas 8,557 Teams
1993 Tulsa, Oklahoma 8,518
1994 Mobile, Alabama 9,285
1995 Reno, Nevada 17,285
1996 Salt Lake City, Utah 9,764
1997 Huntsville, Alabama 9,480
1998 Reno, Nevada 15,925
1999 Syracuse, New York 9,912
2000 Albuquerque, New Mexico 10,688
2001 Reno, Nevada 16,104
2002 Billings, Montana 10,806
2003 Knoxville, Tennessee 12,203
2004 Reno, Nevada 16,585
2005 Baton Rouge, Louisiana 13,222
2006 Corpus Christi, Texas 12,606
2007 Reno, Nevada 16,235
2008 Albuquerque, New Mexico 12,615
2009 Las Vegas, Nevada 17,200
2010 Reno, Nevada 14,109
2011 Reno, Nevada 12,553
2012 Baton Rouge, Louisiana 11,794

Author Topic: A resignation at USBC (Read 15022 times)

Track_Fanatic

A resignation at USBC

Jorge300

Re: A resignation at USBC

Perfect Approach Pro Shop

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Joe Cool

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Tex

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Jorge300

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Joe Cool

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Mighty Fish

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freak761

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Joe Cool

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txbowler

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Jorge300

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Joe Cool

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Joe Cool

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MTbowler

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MTbowler

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