Author Topic: A span question (Read 11677 times)

TDC57 · « **on:** February 09, 2011, 12:56:56 PM »

Can anyone tell me, in general, what effect will having the ring finger lower than the middle finger have on the release of the ball? Thanks for any info.

The Dreaded Durbin · « **Reply #1 on:** February 09, 2011, 10:04:58 PM »

In this day and age, how the human hand is, the answer to your question pretty much would be nothing at all. Most people I come in contact with have a ring finger that is much shorter than the middle finger thus the proper span would be the ring being shorter in span. This could vary with your customer base.

I needed to put this in, YOUR RESULTS WILL VARY, as you may or may not see the same type of hands that I have. MY fitting philosophy may be different than yours. This is OK! It's good to have different ideas. ALL IDEAS WORK! Please continue to use your ways, and prefect your ways as well. Disclaimer: Everyone does things different ways. Enjoy it as you please!

I see some change in rotation , and tilt change with the drop ring finger. I do see better fitting spans, more comfortable spans, less grip pressure. The change in grip pressure is what creates the change in ball rev rates and rotation.

Edited by The Dreaded Durbin on 2/10/2011 at 2:40 PM

TDC57 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 09, 2011, 10:16:10 PM »

You mention change in grip pressure and change in rev rate. More or less revs?

ccrider · « **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2011, 07:54:06 AM »

Are you sure? Middle finger is closer to the thumb. How dobbin figure that spam to it will generally be longer?

Those that can do. Those that can't complain. Pimpin ain't easy, but it's mandatory.

Most things we like, we don't need. Most things we need, we don't like. Don't confuse your likes with your needs.

Stan · « **Reply #4 on:** February 10, 2011, 08:13:48 AM »

Ask this question to your ball driller. Just about everyones ring finger is shorter than the middle but that does not mean the span for the ring finger should be shorter. Read Bill Taylors bill on drilling and he explains this perfectly.

Normally, a dropped reing finger will let you turn the ball more with less effort. This was popular years ago and still is for some players.

ccrider · « **Reply #5 on:** February 10, 2011, 10:09:55 AM »

This was my point. I think he has it all wrong about the ring finger span generally being shorter. Different things feel right and work for different bowlers. Do what is most comfortable to you. Many drillers will push you to a more stretched span. I am more comfortable with a relaxed span. Still, my ring finger span is longer than my middle finger span.

Stan wrote on 2/10/2011 9:13 AM:
Ask this question to your ball driller. Just about everyones ring finger is shorter than the middle but that does not mean the span for the ring finger should be shorter. Read Bill Taylors bill on drilling and he explains this perfectly.

Normally, a dropped reing finger will let you turn the ball more with less effort. This was popular years ago and still is for some players.

Those that can do. Those that can't complain. Pimpin ain't easy, but it's mandatory.

Most things we like, we don't need. Most things we need, we don't like. Don't confuse your likes with your needs.

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 10, 2011, 10:39:44 AM »

For a right hander when you look at your hand palm down you will notice your middle finger is longer then the ring finger.

Then when you look further, the ring finger is also further away from your thumb. I've seen many who drill both fingers the same distance. For many the middle finger is always just a bit shorter on a drilled bowling ball and the same when you look at a left handed bowlers ball. My span is 4 3/4 by 4 7/8 It's not much of a difference but when drilled wrong, very noticeable.

By drilling the middle or ring finger much shorter then the other and not correct to your span you are taking pressure off of one finger and increasing it to the other. For many this can cause pain and discomfort. Also serious injury. Not sure what your hoping to gain, but I would not suggest it.

Be good, or be good at it.

jls · « **Reply #7 on:** February 10, 2011, 10:57:44 AM »

Today I see more drop ring fingers...Mostly in younger players...On Tuesday I drilled a ball for a 80 year old...He brought in his old ball to be checked out before drilling up the new one... His ring finger span was 3/8" longer than his middle finger...

When I measured him, it came out only 1/16" longer...But guess what... He didn't like that span... He was use to the old span... right or wrong, that's what he liked...And that's what he got...

I see this often with seniors... Their ring finger spans seem to be stretched...Would not fit them like that today, but since they have been using that type of span for years and nothing hurts them, they stay with it...

I myself have always preferred a drop ring finger...

jls

The Dreaded Durbin · « **Reply #8 on:** February 10, 2011, 11:23:50 AM »

I drill almost everyone with a dropped ring finger. I have very few people anymore that stretch the ring finger longer than the middle finger in span.

Put your hand flat on the table, the ring finger is shorter than the middle finger. I'm not concerned with the distance of the base of the thumb to each finger. I am more concerned on how much shorter the ring finger is from the middle finger. Your grip is on a T line and not offset like your thumb really is. It's hard to explain without visually seeing it.

I notice many fits where the middle finger span is correct, but the ring finger span is 1/8th longer and the nail hits the back of the hole. It has always been the idea that since the ring finger was further away from the thumb, the span should be longer on that finger. Thus is not the case if you want your fingers to be relaxed in the ball. The 1/8 inch longer "theory" is somewhat old and outdated.

The idea is to put the thumb in the ball, and not to stretch any of your fingers any longer than alittle taught. More often than not your ring finger span is going to be shorter because your not stretching the fingers any. I don't have a % but if Mo Pinel was to fit you, there would be more dropped ring fingers than you would think. Your basically drilling exactly what you "see", and in these situations the ring finger span is shorter.

There are many different ways to fit a hand. Some are new school and some are old school and some are not documented at all.

Whatever way you like to do it, is your own way. If your customers are happy with you way than no worries.

Edited by The Dreaded Durbin on 2/10/2011 at 12:38 PM

The Dreaded Durbin · « **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2011, 11:51:28 AM »

For instance, my ring finger on my right hand is a good 3/8th of an inch shorter than my ring finger. If I would use the traditional fitting methods of making the ring finger longer than the middle, there would be no way I could get the ring finger in the hole comfortably without it pressing against the back of the gripping hole. I use a 1/16th drop from the middle finger span.

Now my left hand is a complete 1/2 shorter ring finger than my middle finger. I would use at least an 1/8th to 3/16th in drop from the middle finger span to accommodate that finger.

This being measured from the 1st crease on each finger, with the hand flat on a hard surface.

I have a rather small hand, thus this enhances the difference in span more than the normal person. I see more and more "younger" people that have the same type of hand characteristics. JLS seems to see the same thing.

Brickguy221 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2011, 11:58:58 AM »

Nice post Durbin. Based on my experience of having bad fits in the past on RF being too long, I agree with what Durbin posted here. I finally settled on both fingers being the same span after trying both dropped RF and same span RF drillings.

The Dreaded Durbin wrote on 2/10/2011 12:23 PM:
I drill almost everyone with a dropped ring finger. I have very few people anymore that stretch the ring finger longer than the middle finger in span.

Put your hand flat on the table, the ring finger is shorter than the middle finger. I'm not concerned with the distance of the base of the thumb to each finger. I am more concerned on how much shorter the ring finger is from the middle finger. Your grip is on a T line and not offset like your thumb really is. It's hard to explain without visually seeing it.

I notice many fits where the middle finger span is correct, but the ring finger span is 1/8th longer and the nail hits the back of the hole. It has always been the idea that since the ring finger was further away from the thumb, the span should be longer on that finger. Thus is not the case if you want your fingers to be relaxed in the ball. The 1/8 inch longer "theory" is somewhat old and outdated.

The idea is to put the thumb in the ball, and not to stretch any of your fingers any longer than alittle taught. More often than not your ring finger span is going to be shorter because your not stretching the fingers any. I don't have a % but if Mo Pinel was to fit you, there would be more dropped ring fingers than you would think. Your basically drilling exactly what you "see", and in these situations the ring finger span is shorter.

There are many different ways to fit a hand. Some are new school and some are old school and some are not documented at all.

Whatever way you like to do it, is your own way. If your customers are happy with you way than no worries.

Edited by The Dreaded Durbin on 2/10/2011 at 12:38 PM

**********************************************************************

"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."

Brick

JustRico · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2011, 12:13:03 PM »

So basically what you are saying that you use no real measuring system due to your hand and base everyone off of that?

Just because your hand is different, as is everyone else's is, you should fit a bowler off of what their hand dictates, not yours. Probably 10% of ALL hands I have ever fit has had the ring finger shorter than the middle.

The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.

The Dreaded Durbin · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2011, 12:16:46 PM »

My measuring system works rather well, and I always base it off a persons hand, hand size, flexibility, Rico your a blow hard know it all. You come on here and you interject your little bit of you knowing it all.

I have more than a 10% drop ring finger span rate in customers. Right or wrong, it is what it is

Obviously you can't read. I gave you an example of how my hand is. AN EXAMPLE of what possibly could be considered a candidate for a dropped ring finger, and in fact it is me.

I fitted a guy the other day who has been bowling for about 3-4 years. He went over to the pro shop in town that has been in business for 30 years. The biggest name in the town. His spans were 5 1/8 x 5 1/4. He always complained his hand hurt, his fingernails where all but out of the ball, stretched way beyond the acceptable point. No forward or reverse in his fingers, etc. I fit his hand, comfortably with no stretch or excessive tautness at 4 3/8th on both fingers, and used 1/4 reverse in his fingers because they were very stiff from working daily in a factory with his hands. No more pain, no more issues with an incorrect fit.

You wouldn't dare say something derogatory about the skills of somebody who buys tons of the product your trying to sell, even if they are doing a hack job. That's your problem Rico. You sure love to judge and throw your two cents in, but you wouldn't speak up if you couldn't hide behind a screen.

Edited by The Dreaded Durbin on 2/10/2011 at 2:39 PM

Sikfish · « **Reply #13 on:** February 10, 2011, 12:44:27 PM »

For what its worth. I used to drill my stuff with the RF stretched alittle, about and 1/8th longer. I then tried "dropping" the ringer finger between 1/16th and an 1/8th..neither felt the most comfortable. FOR ME, I decided to drill both fingers at the same distance and then offset my thumb 3/16" off to the left of my centerline, thus stretching the ring finger back out alittle, but my middle finger and thumb were now very comfortable. After that, I just tweaked the pitches in the RF (1/2 rev. - 3/8 rt.) to make it comfortable, it also changed my PAP and tilt....got me more up the back and lowered my tilt....gaining more foward roll.....I have drilled for many people over the years and have seen all kinds of stuff done that is comfortable to them, if you are in the business...making the customer happy and comfortable is the goal, do what you must to accomplish that. Just my thoughts for how it helped ME.

PS - Rico, you are not a blowhard, know it all....you give useful and valuable info, just alittle brash sometimes...

Brian

MOTIV Staff

www.motivbowling.com

The Dreaded Durbin · « **Reply #14 on:** February 10, 2011, 12:50:59 PM »

Well instead of telling people they don't know what they are doing, maybe he shouldn't try to be the all wise know it all and give some info about how you can properly fit a person. Since in his opinion people like me do not know what they are doing, I would like to know how to do it right.

Implying that I don't know anything, and just go on a whim and a prayer does nothing for people skills. It's no secret the guy has been in the industry a long time, and knows alot but to act like a tool instead of pointing out where people might benefit from his knowledge would go a long way.

Author Topic: A span question (Read 11677 times)

TDC57

A span question

The Dreaded Durbin

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TDC57

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ccrider

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Stan

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ccrider

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kidlost2000

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jls

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The Dreaded Durbin

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The Dreaded Durbin

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Brickguy221

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JustRico

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The Dreaded Durbin

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Sikfish

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The Dreaded Durbin

Re: A span question