win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: A take on Handicap by Mike Fagan  (Read 15931 times)

blesseddad

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
A take on Handicap by Mike Fagan
« on: August 25, 2013, 04:08:59 PM »
Check this out and see if you agree...


http://mikefagan.tumblr.com/post/28350535363/how-to-fix-bowling#notes

I love it and love to get another idea toward making bowling better, not just allowing the status quo to continue...

 

northface28

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3333
Re: A take on Handicap by Mike Fagan
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2013, 04:26:46 PM »
Sounds good in theory, but it will never be applied in practice. Too many guys want handicap as the "equalizer". I sub in a Tuesday night league at an AMF house, I get -6 handicap, per game. -18 for a set, does anyone see anything wrong with that?

Nevertheless, handicap is here to stay, get rid of it, and bowling will collapse, for real. You think memberships and leagues are dwindling now, banish handicap, and its really over.
NLMB 150 Dream Team
#NoTalking
#HellaBandz

JOE FALCO

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6298
Re: A take on Handicap by Mike Fagan
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2013, 05:34:39 PM »
I totally DISAGREE with Mike. Without handicap leagues will completely die. They are on the way out now .. no handicap will put the nail in the coffin! Do we have more 200+ averages in leagues ? Eliminate the handicap and the LT 200 average league bowlers will disappear. What leagues will you have then???
RIP Thongprincess/Sawbones!

J_Mac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6778
Re: A take on Handicap by Mike Fagan
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2013, 05:41:23 PM »
He hasn't bowled in a league in how long? I think he's a little out of touch with the reality of the situation...

Bowler19525

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 883
Re: A take on Handicap by Mike Fagan
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2013, 05:46:12 PM »
The article makes a sound argument, but the reality is that bowlers will stop bowling in leagues if there is no handicap.  A growing number of league bowlers are comprised of recreational bowlers who want a night out with their friends.  They are perfectly content bowling 150's if it means they can socialize with others.  They get a few hours out, take their 90% (sometimes even 100%) handicap, and hope to win some points over the course of 33 weeks and get some money at the end.  They don't want to grow better as bowlers, they simply want to have a chance to win at their level and have fun.

Tell a team of 150 average bowlers they have to bowl a team of 200 average bowlers without handicap, and they will be miserable.  With the USBC eliminating awards, it just adds to the frustration for them.  They get no handicap, they get no awards for their accomplishments, they most likely win very few games.  They essentially pay $15/week to hang with their friends, spend another $20-$30 at the bar, and win nothing but 3 hours with their buddies.

Mike Fagan seems to forget that eliminating handicap will cause hundreds of thousands of weekly recreational league bowlers to stop bowling.  The only people left league bowling would be the higher level competitive bowlers who don't want/need handicap.  Leagues would fold, bowling centers would hurt even more.

This is why there are both types of leagues.  People who want to win once in a while, but still have fun, bowl in handicap leagues.  Competitive bowlers who want the pure thrill of competition (and the typically higher prize funds that go along with it) bowl in scratch leagues.  If high level players don't like giving handicap they should stay away from handicap leagues and stick to scratch leagues and tournaments.

I am a 200 average bowler, and I have bowled both handicap and scratch leagues.  Both types of leagues have good points and bad points.  Eliminating handicap is not the magic elixir to fixing what is wrong with bowling.  Bowling proprietors are always going to gravitate to the sector of the business that generates revenue.  That is the recreational bowler.  The bowler that pays $5+ per game to bowl, rents shoes, buys food at the snack counter, buys candy from the vending machines, then plays games in the arcade for a little while.  They bring their kids their for birthday parties, glow bowling, and have corporate events there. 

Bowling needs a serious image change.  It needs to go from a recreational activity that "everyone" can do, to a serious sport that people actually aspire to play at a higher level.  Make it such that the televised bowling professionals make big money to win a tournament (i.e. golf.)  Inspire kids to be a professional bowler when they grow up.  Get real sponsors and true national level coverage and attention.  Coverage in national newspapers, regular coverage on Sportscenter.  Get back to the days where people would watch bowling on Sunday and want to go to the lanes the next day and try to bowl as well as the pros.  In a nutshell, put excitement back into the sport for those who do not regularly participate.  Bring a level of prestige and class back to the sport that has long disappeared.  Create real bowling "stars"....household names.  Show the trials and tribulations the pros have gone through to reach the national level.  Give the women their own tour again.  Put the collegiate bowling teams in the spotlight (and on TV) regularly.  Create college bowling "stars" and future stars to watch.  Everything is there, it just needs to be properly packaged and marketed...something that has eluded the industry for years.  When the general public respects the seriousness of bowling, it will return to prosperity.



blesseddad

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
Re: A take on Handicap by Mike Fagan
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2013, 08:55:04 PM »
The house where I bowl used to have every league at 100% handicap. Why do you think the better bowlers gravitated toward one league?...Ridiculous...Then, they run a fun league, a 9 pin No-Tap league to get people to start bowling and guess what? Bunch of old-timers taking up too many spots in this beginner league and guess what? 100% percent handicap based on 300...No, I am not kidding...

Just think, at some point, if we really want bowling to be seriously considered by about anyone, handicap has to go away for anybody above the recreational level or at least limit the percentages where sandbagging goes away (80% max should be the limit IMHO)...

If you are telling me the sport goes away when we take away the cheating, then the sport had nothing solid to build on anyway, and we really should have nothing to miss...


blesseddad

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
Re: A take on Handicap by Mike Fagan
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2013, 08:58:37 PM »
He hasn't bowled in a league in how long? I think he's a little out of touch with the reality of the situation...

Thinking I know a possible reason why he does not bowl leagues, even if he had the time...

blesseddad

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
Re: A take on Handicap by Mike Fagan
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2013, 08:59:54 PM »
The article makes a sound argument, but the reality is that bowlers will stop bowling in leagues if there is no handicap.  A growing number of league bowlers are comprised of recreational bowlers who want a night out with their friends.  They are perfectly content bowling 150's if it means they can socialize with others.  They get a few hours out, take their 90% (sometimes even 100%) handicap, and hope to win some points over the course of 33 weeks and get some money at the end.  They don't want to grow better as bowlers, they simply want to have a chance to win at their level and have fun.

Tell a team of 150 average bowlers they have to bowl a team of 200 average bowlers without handicap, and they will be miserable.  With the USBC eliminating awards, it just adds to the frustration for them.  They get no handicap, they get no awards for their accomplishments, they most likely win very few games.  They essentially pay $15/week to hang with their friends, spend another $20-$30 at the bar, and win nothing but 3 hours with their buddies.

Mike Fagan seems to forget that eliminating handicap will cause hundreds of thousands of weekly recreational league bowlers to stop bowling.  The only people left league bowling would be the higher level competitive bowlers who don't want/need handicap.  Leagues would fold, bowling centers would hurt even more.

This is why there are both types of leagues.  People who want to win once in a while, but still have fun, bowl in handicap leagues.  Competitive bowlers who want the pure thrill of competition (and the typically higher prize funds that go along with it) bowl in scratch leagues.  If high level players don't like giving handicap they should stay away from handicap leagues and stick to scratch leagues and tournaments.

I am a 200 average bowler, and I have bowled both handicap and scratch leagues.  Both types of leagues have good points and bad points.  Eliminating handicap is not the magic elixir to fixing what is wrong with bowling.  Bowling proprietors are always going to gravitate to the sector of the business that generates revenue.  That is the recreational bowler.  The bowler that pays $5+ per game to bowl, rents shoes, buys food at the snack counter, buys candy from the vending machines, then plays games in the arcade for a little while.  They bring their kids their for birthday parties, glow bowling, and have corporate events there. 

Bowling needs a serious image change.  It needs to go from a recreational activity that "everyone" can do, to a serious sport that people actually aspire to play at a higher level.  Make it such that the televised bowling professionals make big money to win a tournament (i.e. golf.)  Inspire kids to be a professional bowler when they grow up.  Get real sponsors and true national level coverage and attention.  Coverage in national newspapers, regular coverage on Sportscenter.  Get back to the days where people would watch bowling on Sunday and want to go to the lanes the next day and try to bowl as well as the pros.  In a nutshell, put excitement back into the sport for those who do not regularly participate.  Bring a level of prestige and class back to the sport that has long disappeared.  Create real bowling "stars"....household names.  Show the trials and tribulations the pros have gone through to reach the national level.  Give the women their own tour again.  Put the collegiate bowling teams in the spotlight (and on TV) regularly.  Create college bowling "stars" and future stars to watch.  Everything is there, it just needs to be properly packaged and marketed...something that has eluded the industry for years.  When the general public respects the seriousness of bowling, it will return to prosperity.

Thinking you might have missed the part where lower average bowler bowl with lower average bowlers, thus they can bowl scratch within their own ability levels...

blesseddad

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
Re: A take on Handicap by Mike Fagan
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2013, 09:03:40 PM »
The article makes a sound argument, but the reality is that bowlers will stop bowling in leagues if there is no handicap.  A growing number of league bowlers are comprised of recreational bowlers who want a night out with their friends.  They are perfectly content bowling 150's if it means they can socialize with others.  They get a few hours out, take their 90% (sometimes even 100%) handicap, and hope to win some points over the course of 33 weeks and get some money at the end.  They don't want to grow better as bowlers, they simply want to have a chance to win at their level and have fun.

Tell a team of 150 average bowlers they have to bowl a team of 200 average bowlers without handicap, and they will be miserable.  With the USBC eliminating awards, it just adds to the frustration for them.  They get no handicap, they get no awards for their accomplishments, they most likely win very few games.  They essentially pay $15/week to hang with their friends, spend another $20-$30 at the bar, and win nothing but 3 hours with their buddies.

Mike Fagan seems to forget that eliminating handicap will cause hundreds of thousands of weekly recreational league bowlers to stop bowling.  The only people left league bowling would be the higher level competitive bowlers who don't want/need handicap.  Leagues would fold, bowling centers would hurt even more.

This is why there are both types of leagues.  People who want to win once in a while, but still have fun, bowl in handicap leagues.  Competitive bowlers who want the pure thrill of competition (and the typically higher prize funds that go along with it) bowl in scratch leagues.  If high level players don't like giving handicap they should stay away from handicap leagues and stick to scratch leagues and tournaments.

I am a 200 average bowler, and I have bowled both handicap and scratch leagues.  Both types of leagues have good points and bad points.  Eliminating handicap is not the magic elixir to fixing what is wrong with bowling.  Bowling proprietors are always going to gravitate to the sector of the business that generates revenue.  That is the recreational bowler.  The bowler that pays $5+ per game to bowl, rents shoes, buys food at the snack counter, buys candy from the vending machines, then plays games in the arcade for a little while.  They bring their kids their for birthday parties, glow bowling, and have corporate events there. 

Bowling needs a serious image change.  It needs to go from a recreational activity that "everyone" can do, to a serious sport that people actually aspire to play at a higher level.  Make it such that the televised bowling professionals make big money to win a tournament (i.e. golf.)  Inspire kids to be a professional bowler when they grow up.  Get real sponsors and true national level coverage and attention.  Coverage in national newspapers, regular coverage on Sportscenter.  Get back to the days where people would watch bowling on Sunday and want to go to the lanes the next day and try to bowl as well as the pros.  In a nutshell, put excitement back into the sport for those who do not regularly participate.  Bring a level of prestige and class back to the sport that has long disappeared.  Create real bowling "stars"....household names.  Show the trials and tribulations the pros have gone through to reach the national level.  Give the women their own tour again.  Put the collegiate bowling teams in the spotlight (and on TV) regularly.  Create college bowling "stars" and future stars to watch.  Everything is there, it just needs to be properly packaged and marketed...something that has eluded the industry for years.  When the general public respects the seriousness of bowling, it will return to prosperity.

I don't know where you bowl, but I do not know of many areas where there is an overabundance of scratch bowlers. There are almost no scratch leagues in my are of over 2 million people now, and it is not getting better...Why would a 200-210 want to bowl with a 220+ and get their heads handed to them when they can bag their way into a 190+ situation and go whack all those handicap bowlers you talk about...

blesseddad

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
Re: A take on Handicap by Mike Fagan
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2013, 09:12:38 PM »
From the piece:
"I heard a story this weekend of a player getting criticized by other bowlers in the league for averaging “too high”. The player finished the league with a 248 average and he was criticized that he will not be able to bowl in any leagues and nobody will want him as a teammate because he will not be getting any handicap and probably receive negative handicap. Does anybody else see the problem with this?? We are the only sport that penalizes people for getting better!!!"-MF

Not everyone is willing or able to bowl on a sport compliant condition, although we all should (another argument for another time). Where else but bowling can this stupidity occur? And I know someone is going to mention caps...another way to encourage sandbagging...We bowled a trio a few years ago and won the league. We entered right at the max, but after two of us had record years and worked our asses off, we we over the cap and could not come back to the league. So, the two options were: (1) do the right thing, bowl our asses off and then leave the league, or (2) bag like crazy the last few weeks when we had the league in hand so we just get under the max so we can whack 'em again next year?

We chose #1, what would you have done?

Pinbuster

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4584
  • Former proshop worker
Re: A take on Handicap by Mike Fagan
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2013, 08:20:46 AM »
As far back as I know there has always been handicap leagues.

During bowling "glory years" most leagues were handicapped.

I don't believe having handicap is the major issue.

While draft leagues sound good in theory, the problem is you can get a volatile mix of personalities on a team and many will quit if they can't bowl with their friends.

Two issues have arrived that I see.

One is that the difference in averages between the top bowlers and average bowlers in league has increase dramatically. The average of men's average has not moved up much over the years probably around 170 but the top average in handicap leagues has probably gone from around 200 to 220+. This makes the average bowler feel at a great disadvantage.

Two is that in the past as bowlers got better they tended to look for better leagues to compete in. So in recreational leagues when bowlers got better many would look for new challenges in other higher average leagues. Now they are content to be a big fish in a small pond.

For scratch leagues to work you can't depend on everyone being 210+. You probably need 50% of the bowlers in the league wanting to move up and/or simply enjoy the competition. But so few seem willing to do that now.

Dogtown

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 300
Re: A take on Handicap by Mike Fagan
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2013, 10:19:08 AM »
Handicap only works if EVERYBODY gets it.  If handicap is based on 220, and you have people averaging 230 or 248 like mentioned above, then the higher average bowler has an advantage.

The downside to handicap, is sandbagging.  Always has been.  If USBC would keep up with tournament averages and/or tournament directors would make you bowl off your composite average from the last 3 to 5 years, sandbagging would be a lot harder.

Bowler19525

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 883
Re: A take on Handicap by Mike Fagan
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2013, 10:23:22 AM »

I don't know where you bowl, but I do not know of many areas where there is an overabundance of scratch bowlers. There are almost no scratch leagues in my are of over 2 million people now, and it is not getting better...Why would a 200-210 want to bowl with a 220+ and get their heads handed to them when they can bag their way into a 190+ situation and go whack all those handicap bowlers you talk about...


I live in an area where there are 2 independently owned and operated bowling centers within 10 miles of each other.  Both have scratch and handicapped leagues.  The high average bowlers (men and women) bowl the scratch leagues for the prize fund potential and also bowl in handicapped leagues with their lower average friends.

The larger center has two scratch leagues.  The combined prize fund last season for those two leagues was $40,000.  It is serious business.  Teams re-arranging lineups each week for closer one-on-one match-ups, building teams that are within the cap by only 1 or 2 pins, etc.  Does the cap encourage sandbagging...yes.  Some of the high rollers around here admit to it without reservation.  Some also revel in going to local handicap tournaments and "taking peoples' money" (their words, not mine.)

Maybe it is time for leagues to start actively enforcing USBC rule 17a-2, and 17a-3.  People bowling their best would have nothing to worry about.  Sandbaggers would be dealt with.  Handicap isn't a bad thing, it just needs to be properly administered. 

Jesse James

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3617
Re: A take on Handicap by Mike Fagan
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2013, 11:57:17 AM »
Nice article Mike Fagan, but it will never work! As others have said prior, if handicap goes away, there goes the majority of your leagues. There are scratch leagues for those who want to compete and get better, and then there are handicap leagues for your recreational bowlers and your semi-competitive types. It is what it is!!!

The USBC did a study some time ago on handicapping. They found that the only way to truly equalize a handicap bowler versus a scratch bowler was to get 116% of whatever handicap number that league chose. This is probably very similar to the negative handicapping that goes on in some leagues.

Without this cushion, the "MEAT" of your leagues,.....average bowlers, occasional bowlers, and recreational bowlers will not even waste their time to show up....because they don't believe they stand a chance against competitive scratch bowlers. Getting rid of handicap would signal a death spiral for ALL of bowling!
Some days you're the bug....some days you're the windshield...that's bowling!

Sleeve857

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 31
Re: A take on Handicap by Mike Fagan
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2013, 03:17:52 PM »
Bowling is already heading to the Death Bed. I completely agree with Fagan. Get rid of Handicap! This only promotes sandbaggers and cheaters. I don't know how many tournaments I have gone to where this 170 avg bowler shoots 730 scratch. Now with his massive bonus pins, gee I wonder who won. Is it possible for this to happen without sandbagging...sure but again that is the first thought that goes to everyones head. Yes, you are all correct where Handicap leagues are the majority of all league bowling in the US. I have gone to hundreds of centers across the US and you hardly ever see, 1)Bowlers actually practicing to get better 2)Pot Games don't ever happen anymore 3)With all this great equipment, avgs seem to be dropping?!?! Why is this!? I should not receive negative pins because I am good at the game. Sorry but that is just crap. I enjoy how the USBC Open Championship is because the have it broke down to Classified and Regulars. Both which are scratch but puts you in your average level. So if you want to sandbag go for it and bowl against the Classified group. I don't understand why we can not have more scratch league besides that people are just scared of losing. Tier it off based on their avg. 210-and higher, 185-209, and so forth. Basically like boxing or UFC, have divisions for your avg, you don't see a UFC fighter having to fight 1 handed because he is better than his opponent! Bowling is on a level where it is Ok not to be good in because you get handicap. Get better at the game by practicing! Help your center out at the same time by bringing some linage in to practice. The sport will never be what it use to that is for sure. Again this is my 2 cents on Handicap.