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Author Topic: ABC is to blame...  (Read 6631 times)

MichiganBowling

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ABC is to blame...
« on: February 03, 2004, 12:05:49 AM »
I often hear in this forum how ABC is to blame for our sport's demise and how they don't listen to anything we have to say.  Well, I currently have a pretty good dialouge going with some of the folks at bowling headquarters, and would like to conduct an interview with them.  I can tell you that the people that I met are truly interested in reviving the sport, which is why we should give them the benefit of the doubt just a little bit.  It's time to stop pointing fingers and time to try to understand why things have happened the way they have, and time for a new game plan.

So with that said, please post replies with questions you would like answered from the ABC head honchos.  Also post some of your ideas as to how ABC could help the sport.  I really feel a lot of people are very quick to blame others but are unwilling to look for a real answer themselves.  So please keep that in mind when being critical of others.

I have learned a lot from so many of you that have posted in this forum, and we've all had some really great discussions thus far.  So now it is time to give our ideas a chance.  I will also post a few of my ideas in here as well to get some discussion going.

Thanks guys and gals!
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Brian
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MichiganBowling

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Re: ABC is to blame...
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2004, 03:18:31 PM »
Ok so this isn't my idea, but one I read in the PBA forum in response to Brian Voss's post about high tech bowling balls...

I would like to propose to ABC that we have 2 different levels of sanction, for both bowling balls and for lane conditions.  We would have a certain group of specs that "competition" bowling balls would have to fit, and a certain group of specs that "recreation" bowling balls would have to fit.  The same would go for oil patterns.

It was quite coincidental when I read that in the PBA forum, because I had already had the idea to do the same with leagues and tournaments.  Currently there seems to be no structure whatsoever for our leagues.  Most men's leagues in my area will have average varying from 120 to 240.  Why should the 120 guys be bowling against the 240 guys?  The 220 and up guys complain about the cappers, and the cappers complain that the good bowlers win everything.  So why not separate them?

In other words, let's say a bowling center has 5 men's leagues.  They should have one that is the most competetive, maybe scratch.  We would classify that league as a C1 (Competetive 1).  There might be 2 others that are pretty competetive as well, but not scratch.  Maybe one uses an 80% of 220 handicap and has averages of 170-220 with a max cap of 40 pins per person.  The other is competetive, but for entry level competetive bowlers.  The averages might vary from 120-180 and handicap would be 80% of 200.

Then there might be 2 other men's leagues that are stricty beer drinking fun leagues.  Averages would vary from 100-210 and would use a handicap method of 100% of 220.  There would be no jackpots, but maybe a mystery game and 50/50.  Music?  sure, why not.  Anybody could bowl in these leagues, but they better leave their attitudes at home, cuz it's all about fun.

What do you guys thing about this structuring idea?  Obviousy it's a very rough plan, but the details could be worked out as things progress.

Thanks
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Brian
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Famous Last Words of a Pot Bowler--"Ok, but this is my last game!"
Brian
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TheBowlingKid25

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Re: ABC is to blame...
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2004, 03:25:21 PM »
I TOTALLY AGREE! In my league, my team has been in first forever! I mean its a good thing, but we dont win anything, and its too easy! We are one of the BEST teams, not to mentions its 3 girls and 2 guys, but we give up at least 100 pins to like everyone we bowl. We gave 140 pins up last week and still won by like 50. I think there are maybe 2 teams out of at least 20-30 that could give us a challenge. Yet we havnt been paired against them yet.
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MichiganBowling

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Re: ABC is to blame...
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2004, 03:32:20 PM »
BowlingKid...

So is it fair to say that something like the minor leagues in baseball should be applied to bowling, but on a non-professional level?

If your team dominates a league for a year or two, they should both want to and be forced to move up to a more competetive league, right?

So in order to make them want to move up, perhaps we have more jackpots and such in the higher leagues.  Sure it's fun to win, but if there's no money and no real feeling of accomplishment, then we're going to want to push ourselves to the next level.
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Brian
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Famous Last Words of a Pot Bowler--"Ok, but this is my last game!"
Brian
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TheBowlingKid25

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Re: ABC is to blame...
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2004, 03:36:43 PM »
The problem is out league is YABA, but we have the same problems, but the problem is that NOOO YABA leagues are competetive enough for us, and if we wanted to move to a more competetive league, it would be adults, and we would not be able to bowl YABA any more. Its a bit confusing but basically if we want to bowl junior league (majors, but they call it juniors) we have to bowl all the teams that are our age, they dont measure by skill level. It really sucks.
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Old Coach

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Re: ABC is to blame...
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2004, 03:37:21 PM »
Brian, I think your ideas are sound but the big question becomes who will enforce the balls and lane conditions.  There is no way the ABC can sanction 300 or honor scores like days of old because of the thousands that are shot.  All they do is take the Serial number of the ball.  It would be difficult to start pointing people at certain leagues and or equipment and honestly, 80-90 percent of the people really don't care, they just come to bowl, good or bad, have fun and thats it.  In our area we have a 44 lane house that runs from 8am until midnight with leagues all day long.  Just about anything you want.  They have a major league which is no handicap, the cream of the crop from the area.  Also many competitive mens and womens leagues and then the couples, beer drinkers and such.  They do put out tougher shots for the majors and the more competitive leagues.  A really quality house.  I would imagine that there are many such establishments around the country, just have to find them I guess.  Sorry, I am not much help but again I think most establishments and the majority of the bowlers just want to come out, bowl on the easiest shot they can find (EGO) have fun and go home.  Good luck, will look forward to more input.

9andaWiggle

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Re: ABC is to blame...
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2004, 03:43:20 PM »
quote:
If your team dominates a league for a year or two, they should both want to and be forced to move up to a more competetive league, right?


This may work in larger markets, but don't forget the smaller communities!  I don't have figures, but I would venture to say well over 1/2 of all bowling centers are in smaller areas, with 16 lanes or less.  Therefore, you will often have the same people bowling 2 or 3 nights a week between the two mens leagues and the mixed league.  Just something to keep in mind...

Personally, I like the idea of competition level equipment that is weaker than some of the strike-in-a-box on the market.  At least tighten it up for tourneys.

One thing I would like answered; since the technology of the balls has improved to hit the pins harder, then why hasn't the technology of the pins been improved to resist the stronger equipment being thrown at them?  If this technology exists, why hasn't it been required to be used?


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TheBowlingKid25

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Re: ABC is to blame...
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2004, 03:45:35 PM »
9~ that is a good question, but how would this be achieved? Heavier pins? Have ABC pass new standards on things like pin weight and what not? Super glue on the bottom of the pins?
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Soonermike

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Re: ABC is to blame...
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2004, 03:48:53 PM »
I am for some sort of change, maybe a rating system.  I know that amatuer softball has divisions for teams of different levels.  I think that it would be much easier to do this in bowling because you have very quantifiable data to base ratings on (averages).  Now I know a few people sandbag, and you may always have that going on, but usually the average is a good indicator of one's level of skill.  Unfortunately, a lot of folks bowl in certain leagues based upon other factors such as location, night, and friends and don't care a lot about the competition level.  Most lower average bowlers know that they can't compete with the better bowlers consistently, even in high handicapped situations.

Without rambling on, I know that in softball and golf the technology has changed the game over the years. It has in bowling too and I am not sure that the game can be restored to or even resemble the way it used to be.
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SoonerMike
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MichiganBowling

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Re: ABC is to blame...
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2004, 03:55:39 PM »
Dale,

One thing I am trying to promote here is the idea that the past is the past, and the future is what we make it.  You are right that most bowlers nowadays just want to go fling the ball, drink, then go home.  But most of those bowlers notice that something isn't quite right either.  And I think there are enough of us who know that bowling can be better than it is right now, that we owe it to ourselves and we owe it to the youth to make bowling a real sport again.  The beautiful thing about change is that anybody can do it.  When people begin to see the end result of our efforts, they will help us too!

9andawiggle,

Very good point.  I suppose I was talking about the larger markets all along.  The fact is, I don't hear about the problems in the smaller markets like I do in the larger markets, so they do not need as much help.  All they need to do is upgrade their center accordingly, and things just seem to fall into place.  We do still need to educate those bowlers as well though.  It's all about options.  We shouldn't force the bowlers to bowl on tough shots anymore than we should force them to bowl on easy shots all the time (which we are doing now).  Educate them and give them the option.  Let them make a real choice and show them the light at the end of the tunnel.

Again, the idea of limiting the bowling balls more for the "competition" sanctioned leagues would be the equivalent of only allowing major league baseball players to use wooden bats.  It puts everybody on an even playing field, and the true talent will rise to the top.  For me, if I'm not one of those at the top, I'm going to work damn hard to get there!  This competetive attitude is totally lacking in our sport today.
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Brian
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Famous Last Words of a Pot Bowler--"Ok, but this is my last game!"
Brian
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Famous Last Words of a Pot Bowler--"Ok, but this is my last game!"

drillbit

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Re: ABC is to blame...
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2004, 04:18:32 PM »
BowlingKid:

 One way to make the pins tougher to knock over is to eliminate the double-voided construction, and go back to single-voids, thus lowering the pins' center of gravity, and making them tougher to knock over. Bill Taylor has been promoting this idea for years, and it definitely would decrease pin-carry, especially on less-than-perfect hits.

drillbit

Edited on 2/3/2004 5:17 PM

Old Coach

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Re: ABC is to blame...
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2004, 04:26:55 PM »
Brian, I am for you 100% but as Bones said trying to buck politics is next to impossible.  When I was younger I thought I could change the world on many issues but always found myself being in the minority. I do wish you good luck.

Phillip Marlowe

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Re: ABC is to blame...
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2004, 06:06:21 PM »
1.  Why did the ABC stop requiring periodic resurfacing of lanes?  Even some synthetic need it?

2.  Why does the ABC allow so many variations in lane conditioning?  

3.  Why are particle balls legal?

4.  Why don't we have a single sanctioning body for the sport?

5.  Could sport bowling become the standard?

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charlest

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Re: ABC is to blame...
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2004, 09:42:14 PM »
While there may be some interested parties within the ABC, the entity is now like most governments - no longer concerned in the people whose interests it was designed to support. It is only interested in insuring its own survival. If you can get it to do anything, please let me know. And, please, don't tell me I must sacrifice the rest of my life to get it to do that something. If it is still a viable entity whose purpose is even vaguely related to its original, then that something will be done easily by very few people.

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sdbowler

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Re: ABC is to blame...
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2004, 10:31:22 PM »
The problem is just like many other things have people up at the top that like the way things are going and don't want to change. The ABC Nationals seem to be growing every year, why really mess around with anything, yes I know overall #'s are down however. Also I think we all have forgotten about the busy lifestyle that everyone lives now. I remember growing up Tuesday nights go out and watch my Father bowl get home late that night and go to basketball practice other nights of the week. Now we have parents who are trying to bowl more and more activities for kids to be in. With the growing cost of everything more and more people are looking at cutting expenses just like businesses are. There are many things that can be done. Dividing people into different leagues based on averages may work in very large markets however places like South Dakota it would not work. Most places in the state are 12 lanes or less. There are 13 out of 73 centers in the state that are over 12 lanes. So the seperate by average would not really work here. Most of the bowlers in the state are out to have fun, yes they want to win as much as anybody else but the fun is what they want. It is almost coming down to different rules for different parts of the country although that would never work. Down South bowling maybe more of a year round sport I know in South Dakota just during the winter months even for the most hard core bowlers. I think part of what ABC may want to look at is when honor scores are shot go back to checking the lanes close to that time. Now I believe if the lane is checked within 30 days of the score it is ok. Gives time for centers to play with the oil pattern if they need to. Part of the problem right now is most of the oilers can hold multiple shots and depends on who oils that night on what shot may get put out. In the center the I use to work at we had 1 shot we put out for every league mens,womens, or mixed. I have heard of centers using 3-5 shots depending on what league. Good but also bad. Case in point bowl mix league on Sunday nites a few weeks ago shot 490 got asked to sub on Tuesday night shot 683 complete different shot. That is also why people are not coming back to bowl the next year they get frustrated due to inconsistency of the oil pattern. Then there are the ball companies who think they need to anywhere from 2-4 balls out per company per month. Getting to be to many balls out on the market who knows what to get and when to get it. With the new technology in the balls the centers have to put out more and more oil to protect their investment in the lanes. The bowlers with older equipment can't get the ball to work get upset and leave the game. Bowling anymore is an endless circle of pointing the finger at the next guy. Will bowling ever be back to the glory days of old??? No it will not be able to get back there.
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