Author Topic: I'm not exactly sure why some pro shops do this (Read 5495 times)

Track_Fanatic · « **on:** October 08, 2011, 01:37:22 PM »

I've been looking for a new pro shop since the one I had been going to for 19 years was abruptly shut down by the owner of a bowling center where the shop was in. I have looked around most of my area to get a feel for these shops and to also see what prices they charge for drilling. There are some things I just don't understand. I know I will probably get slammed on this but I need to ask/vent

1) Why in the world would shops charge with no grips/slugs starting @ $60 for a ball not purchased from them and then after grips and slug it ends up at least an additional $17-$20? So we are talking about an additional $80 if not more?

2) internet sales have killed pro shops. Can someone tell me how? You charge for drilling and grips/slugs most of it is labor. Unless shops charge ala carte you incorporate the cost of drilling only into the cost of the ball. (I don't know any shops in my area that do this now. There was 1 who tried this, and also thought since they were a silver level coach and also a ABC Eagle holder, their prices were just plain stupid/ Needless to say, that shop isn't there anymore)

3) If the customer doesn't buy the ball from your shop and you charge a minimum of $60. With the customer understanding that if something goes wrong, your shop is not liable and also would not handle the warranty. The customer would need to go back to wherever they got the ball from. Why try and make more money off of a customer if they don't buy the ball from you?

4) By charging higher rates because they didn't buy the ball from you, this of course forces them to buy it from you and not say through internet or even through offers that PBA members get. The customer may save if you are lucky $15 on the 'high performance' balls but for mid price or low price equipment, you are basically stuck having to get it from the shop since adding the cost of grips/slugs to these lower cost equipment would either make it even or possibly would cost the customer more after you have it drilled by the pro shop. For example, the cost of the hooks series balls for 900 Global. I have seen them advertised for $79.99 shipped. If you add the cost of drilling $60, grips/slug $20 this comes out to be $159 plus tax on the taxable amount. One of the shops I've visited, charges $124.95 tag on the $20 for grips/slug plus tax, it comes out to be about the same.

5) Could someone explain what the 'loss' would be to a shop if you charge say $45 drilled with grips/slugs out the door since this would mainly be labor?

I am just beside myself that I don't have options. That a pro shop is going to force me into buying equipment from them. This makes me not want to buy any equipment. This makes me also not want to continue with bowling. Do you think by basically telling the customer if you don't buy the ball from us you can just go ahead and bend over? This is pretty much what you are doing.

I know it's a double edge sword on this. But if you really look at it, most people that buy off the internet or buy direct through the manufacturers normally don't buy just 1 ball a year. They buy multiple.

So, I'd like to hear from pro shop operators on this so I can get a better understanding why charging someone approx. $80 to drill a ball vs $45 when most of it is labor. I understand I will most likely get slammed but I am just asking for honest answers. Thanks in advance.

chucksta29 · « **Reply #46 on:** October 12, 2011, 02:35:55 PM »

Find a guy you can establish a good relationship with and it gets better with time, been going to the same guy in St. Joe, MO for almost 10 years. He does it because he likes doing it, he was a machinist in his career so this stuff comes pretty natural to him. Not to mention he has over 100 perfect games, and 40 some 800 series.

He doesn't keep an in shop inventory because his space is tiny, but when you order a ball from him it arrives the next day. He keeps your information in a filing system so I can take in a ball, tell him the reaction I want and come back a week later and throw it with no problems and it does what I want it to do.

He flat out told me a couple years ago if you can get it off the internet cheaper do it and he'll drill it for the same price as always. I pay 50 bucks finger inserts and thumb exactacator included. He drills enough equipment and owns his space in the bowling alley so he makes enough to pay the bills and make some on the side.

Point is find a guy you can develop a relationship with and he'll always take care of ya, and the price you pay goes down.

I'd rather you hate me for everything I am, then have you love me for something that I'm not!!! 5FDP

sabman · « **Reply #47 on:** October 12, 2011, 05:33:22 PM »

The prices I put are for the balls drilled at the pro shop. The polyester ball price of $60 drilled is my local pro shop. It's a great price. As opposed to the price of a slingshot for $149.95 drilled at another pro shop I've seen, which is not so good when that ball is like $50 from the distributor.

trash heap wrote on 10/12/2011 1:40 PM:
Bowlingball.com has them listed at $69.95.

sabman wrote on 10/12/2011 1:27 PM:I saw some of the distributor pricing for bowling balls. The almost double comment for the customer is accurate. I can't remember exact pricing but polyester balls cost like $30. My local guy sells it for $60 drilled, I'd say that's reasonable. But, I also saw Slingshots for like $50 or so. There was one pro shop guy that set the price on one for $149.95 out the door. Mark ups like that are what I'd complain about.

Edited by sabman on 10/12/2011 at 1:28 PM

Edited by sabman on 10/12/2011 at 5:34 PM

StickZ · « **Reply #48 on:** October 12, 2011, 08:10:54 PM »

Complete, I see your point, trust me. I have no desire to ever open a shop. Where I see it, personally, is I have the skills i need to do my equipment except the actual drilling of the ball. I supported my proshop as I said originally, I ALWAYS threw my proshop guy a tip after he was done bcus he let me work on my own equipment after the 3 holes were punched. I dont go through bowling balls like they are going out of style so i have no use for a shop or even one at home. Do I have the knowledge that very few proshop guys do? No, but I know a decent amount of stuff for myself not ever being taught much. I understand rent, electric this and that. But sorry, the customer rules the world. without customers you have no shop. its kind like the grocery stores, Publix is high priced but excellent customer service, Walmart Supercenter is cheap as piss and trash(IMO) so you choose. Well alot of proshops have the mentality of walmart but want the prices of publix is what i was getting at. I knew I would get bashed left and right for that post, so be it, thats how i see it. no 1 person is right or wrong, its all how we see it as individuals. Im not saying my 6 years of learning rules over anybody or that i could run a shop, bcus i couldnt. But as an individual and a "customer" I use very little of any proshop guys 'knowledge" at all. all he has to do is punch 3 holes thats it. if you would pay someone 60-70 dollars for 10 minutes of work and 3 holes punched id love to hear it.

Career High Game: 300x3
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TheFreeAgent · « **Reply #49 on:** October 12, 2011, 09:02:10 PM »

Yeah finding your PAP and paying for classes (which arent cheap) to learn the dual angle and PAP method correctly and weighing you ball out on their scale (another 500+ dollar piece of equipt.), then drilling it (on a multi-thousand dollar press) and using his carbide drill bits (multi thousand dollar tools), is as simple as putting 3 holes in a ball.... yeah 60 bucks is way to expensive. HA! ignorance is bliss, all people see is a guy drilling a ball they dont realize what they actually go through to "put 3 holes in a ball"

StickZ wrote on 10/12/2011 8:10 PM:
Complete, I see your point, trust me. I have no desire to ever open a shop. Where I see it, personally, is I have the skills i need to do my equipment except the actual drilling of the ball. I supported my proshop as I said originally, I ALWAYS threw my proshop guy a tip after he was done bcus he let me work on my own equipment after the 3 holes were punched. I dont go through bowling balls like they are going out of style so i have no use for a shop or even one at home. Do I have the knowledge that very few proshop guys do? No, but I know a decent amount of stuff for myself not ever being taught much. I understand rent, electric this and that. But sorry, the customer rules the world. without customers you have no shop. its kind like the grocery stores, Publix is high priced but excellent customer service, Walmart Supercenter is cheap as piss and trash(IMO) so you choose. Well alot of proshops have the mentality of walmart but want the prices of publix is what i was getting at. I knew I would get bashed left and right for that post, so be it, thats how i see it. no 1 person is right or wrong, its all how we see it as individuals. Im not saying my 6 years of learning rules over anybody or that i could run a shop, bcus i couldnt. But as an individual and a "customer" I use very little of any proshop guys 'knowledge" at all. all he has to do is punch 3 holes thats it. if you would pay someone 60-70 dollars for 10 minutes of work and 3 holes punched id love to hear it.

Career High Game: 300x3

Career High Series: 774x2

High Game 09'-10' Season:300

High Series 09'-10':774

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Formerly RotoStorm2008

StickZ · « **Reply #50 on:** October 12, 2011, 09:16:43 PM »

TFA, when you read and comprehend what I had said then you can speak. If you read the ENTIRE thread. the proshop guy doesnt need to do the dual angle or layout any ball, doesnt need to measure sht or use this "magical sense of knowledge" that you guys spend money on and still cant drill anything right. i had a guy who was on staff for a company tell me that such layout will work for my PAP, i told him it wouldnt, he sent me a bowl for free with the layout and surprise surprise this guy who was suppose to know his shit didnt and little old me was right.imagine that. now what was that....ignorance is bliss?

Career High Game: 300x3
Career High Series: 774x2
High Game 09'-10' Season:300
High Series 09'-10':774

KiDSGoTGaMe

stone8 · « **Reply #51 on:** October 13, 2011, 08:33:12 AM »

Maybe I'm just slow, but I would say for me to do a quality job drilling a ball, it takes a good 30 minutes give or take 10 minutes. For me a quality job (assuming I have the bowler's specs on file and am familiar with their style) includes the following: Choosing a ball (unless ball was purchased elsewhere), choosing a layout based on style and needs, drawing the lines on the ball, drilling the holes, installing slug and or grips (if required), weighing the ball after drilling, adding a balance hole if needed, finish work on the holes and finally any tweaks when the bowler picks up the ball and tests the fit. Again maybe I'm just slow, but 10 minutes to do a quality drill job? Really? Heck milling a oval thumb hole takes 5-10 minutes alone, and by the way, most bowlers have oval thumbs.

Stickz, I see where you are coming from and will you agree that your case is the exception, NOT THE RULE. If you brought a ball in, that was already layout already drawn and press ready, where all I had to do was set the proper pitches and hit the lines, then 10 minutes is a possibility. (Still pushing it a bit, I think) I don't have any customers that do this, but if I did, I certainly wouldn't charge full drilling service prices.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been lucky long enough...now I'd like to get good.

Rileybowler · « **Reply #52 on:** October 13, 2011, 09:05:33 AM »

I love my pro shop and appreciate the work they do for me, they always do a great job and in my opinion it is always best to do business with a person you can talk to face to face. As far as prices go I think they are fair I purchased a DV8 Misfit and had inserts and slug installed and new inserts to a Vibe and the total price was $146 which I thought was really good.

Carl
Bless the LORD o my soul and all that is within me bless his holy name

storm making it rain · « **Reply #53 on:** October 13, 2011, 09:09:21 AM »

This topic has been beaten to death many times on here before, but...here's my opinion.

First as a small shop I don't stock very much but I can get anything overnight. That being said most distributors have a minimum order dollar amount to provide free shipping. So let's take the VR Nano Pearl ($135 cost) if I don't have anything else to order but need that ball ASAP it's really gonna cost me $150 roughly. So I'm gonna sell that ball for $220 out the door everything included. I don't believe that's a horrible mark-up for the whole deal. So let's take buddiesproshop.com's price $159.95 free shipping and you end up paying for the drilling. The price comes out basically the same unless of course you drill your own stuff.

Now someone mentioned a plastic ball earlier: I charge $70 drilled (everything included) for all plastic balls ie: WD,Tzone, Maxim online shops sell them for $52 undrilled, even at a rate of $30 for drilling you will spend more on that ball compared to my shop.

I also think drill prices are very area oriented, you could pay $35 in one area and $75 in another, just like any other product out there. Like mentioned before some people buy their own oil filter and change their oil themselves and some people would rather just take it to their mechanic and have them do it. I for one don't have any problem with one of my customers buying a ball online and having me drill it, cause they will get charged full price for the drill and I don't have any money tied up in their purchase.

It's really to each their own, but calling out the pro shop operators for charging what they deem fair isn't the way to go. If i could get people to pay $100 for a drill why wouldn't anybody do that? Cause once again any good shop is going to spend time with the customer before and after the alleged "15 minute" drill time.

Is buying online bad?? I dont think so, But with an average savings of $10 (if you don't drill your own stuff) why wouldn't you support your local guys. Like previously stated most guys will start to discount their prices when you become a great customer.

Norm3v · « **Reply #54 on:** October 15, 2011, 09:03:42 AM »

Firstly, I have NO problem with a pro shop charging more for a "blank" ball coming into the shop to be drilled due to what others have said with the pro shop losing out on the profit on selling the ball as well as the drilling service. I can also see where customers can get upset in that the pro shop is charging more money for the exact same service, which comes off sounding like a penalty for not purchasing the ball there. That marketing strategy might make the pro shops more money on each ball, but there is the potential of losing some customer's business which can hurt more than losing the profit off of each ball sale. My suggestion to all pro shops is to have a set price for drilling, which would be the higher of the two, and have that marketed on their pricing list. Then, promote a discounted drilling for purchasing the ball from the pro shop. This way, you avoid having two price points and alienating customers just needing an outside ball drilled, and reward those that buy the ball in your shop. This could also open the door to promoting an in house warranty program or free adjustments/resurfacing for a set period of time or any other service that you can think of that purchasing the ball in house could benefit from.

I personally buy all of my new bowling balls from my pro shop to help give him the business. I also buy used balls from time to time and have him plug and redrill them for me which he charges me a normal rate for, but I do this in order to find what I like and dont like in bowling balls or drillings and base my future NIB purchases off of. I find it disrespectful to bring an undrilled ball to him to drill, but I will NOT knock anyone else for doing so. If I were to bring an undrilled ball to him to drill, I would even suggest he charge me more to make up the difference.

Edited by Norm3v on 10/15/2011 at 9:19 AM

Track_Fanatic · « **Reply #55 on:** October 16, 2011, 08:20:51 AM »

Since it may appear that the entire thread is not being continued to be read before posting, I am going to just quote myself from a response earlier. This wasn't out to offend any pro shop operator's or have consumers get into a pi**ing contest with pro shop operators. If you can save ANY kind of money, what's wrong with that in this economy? As stated below, I hope both pro shop operators and consumers understand.

Track_Fanatic wrote on 10/11/2011 6:17 PM:

I really appreciate all of the honest answers from the pro shop operators. This was not meant to start a pi**ing contest with pro shops vs consumers. Let me address some points that have been brought up. I will choose JPratt’s post for instance.

Let me just start by saying I had been accustomed to paying $45 for drilling with grips/slug. This has been ongoing for about 10 years. Prior to that it was $35.

I usually get my equipment through the PBA offers. Sometimes I am lucky, and find a ball on the internet that I know is already on closeout. With that being said, I certainly understand your point as to the pro shop losing money now since they may have had it in inventory and now will be losing money. Honestly though, depending on your distributor, how long would it take to get a ball in that you have to order if you don’t stock it? The pro shop I was going to was able to get a ball in 2 days or less. They normally carried 4 balls each of 15lb and 14lb equipment in high performance and mid-price equipment. They would also carry some lower price equipment such as equipment used for young children or adults learning how to bowl.

I am no way concerned about a warranty on a ball since I get most if not all through the PBA offers. I deal directly with the manufacturer myself.

For point # 4. What I was referring to about is the mid-price to low-price equipment. When we get offers through the PBA on lower MSRP priced equipment, I would still be able to save money instead of now having to pay more if I decide to still purchase it through the manufacturer. This would now force me into buying equipment at the pro shop where the margin of profit is still not as high as a ‘high performance’ ball. I am not looking for reasons why NOT to buy from the local pro shop. I had supported my local pro shop because they did a good job. I was with them for over 19 years. As you know, trying to find a pro shop is like a marriage. You want to be able to be with them a LONG time. I know there are a lot of pro shops in the Chicagoland area. I want to be able to feel comfortable where I go and also where I want to spend MY money. So far, out of the multiple shops I have visited there is only 1 shop that actually explained a lot of things to me and also seemed very genuine in responses to the questions I asked. Do I want to go to that shop and see how things go? I sure do. Do I want to have to drive 45 minutes one way to get to it? No, I don’t. Does the shop know I would be driving a good distance for THEIR services? Yes they do. If the shop knows you are serious about doing business with them, I don’t think it would be out of line for them to offer the customer some sort of discount on drilling charges. Wouldn't you want to also make an impression with the customer? You do good work, you will reap the benefits of having repeat customers.

For your point #5, see #4 above. And yes, I do want the pro shop to survive. But in the market in the Chicago area, the average cost for drilling alone is $60 before grips/slugs. When you are used to spending $45 out the door and now it’s going to cost you approx. $80-$85, it is somewhat of a shock and awe factor I wasn’t expecting. Yes, I may have been spoiled for all these years being charged a lot less than what other shops charge. I can tell you this, I’ve NEVER had any issues with my hand when I started going to this shop in 1991. I was able to have the equipment shipped directly to the shop, explain what I was looking to get out of the ball, and I was able to pick up the ball WITHOUT having to do any adjustments with the thumb hole which is not very common. The only thing I had to sometimes do is fiddle with the coverstock and that’s all. Yes, I did have it pretty darn good!

I do understand there are accessories and that’s USUALLY where the most profit comes from.

Edited by Track_Fanatic on 10/11/2011 at 6:24 PM

trash heap · « **Reply #56 on:** October 17, 2011, 09:04:41 AM »

In reference to your #4....You don't get the same discount on mid to low performance balls as you do on high performance. Your question shouldn't be directed to the pro shops; its the manufacturers you need to question. High end balls are marked up a lot more, the manufacturers put all their hype and advertising into them. These are the balls used for tournaments, and are supposed to do all kinds of special stuff on the lane. They give you more control, more backend, better midlane read, better carry, etc... compared to the mid and low end equipment.

If I was a shop owner...I would never let the customer know what I pay for in equipment. It is none of their business. If they want to know...then they can open up their own shop.

Author Topic: I'm not exactly sure why some pro shops do this (Read 5495 times)

Track_Fanatic

I'm not exactly sure why some pro shops do this

chucksta29

Re: I'm not exactly sure why some pro shops do this

sabman

Re: I'm not exactly sure why some pro shops do this

StickZ

Re: I'm not exactly sure why some pro shops do this

TheFreeAgent

Re: I'm not exactly sure why some pro shops do this

StickZ

Re: I'm not exactly sure why some pro shops do this

stone8

Re: I'm not exactly sure why some pro shops do this

Rileybowler

Re: I'm not exactly sure why some pro shops do this

storm making it rain

Re: I'm not exactly sure why some pro shops do this

Norm3v

Re: I'm not exactly sure why some pro shops do this

Track_Fanatic

Re: I'm not exactly sure why some pro shops do this

trash heap

Re: I'm not exactly sure why some pro shops do this