BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: jmc1972 on February 28, 2017, 04:36:50 PM
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I'm joining the ABT and will likely be playing my first event this weekend. Other then bowling the tournaments are there any other benefits to joining?
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as far as I know, it's just the tournaments. I joined the Vegas branch since I'm only an hour and a half away and they usually put out sport shots.
It sucks sometimes since handicap is involved.
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as long as you're not in NorCal, you'll be fine. When I bowled in Washington state, they (those who ran the ABT) are serious about sandbagging. I've seen guys get black balled in ABT and in leagues/houses for sandbagging.
When I first moved to NorCal, they combined the two divisions and I had to bowl against cheaters. I'd beat guys scratch but don't cash because they come in with 20 to 30 sitcks, and bowl 215-220 on sport patterns. I still remember those whom I lost to, beating their ass scratch...
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There's a club for you guys that complain about giving handicap. It goes by 3 letters also.
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There's a club for you guys that complain about giving handicap. It goes by 3 letters also.
its one thing to give handicap, but its another to give handicap to sandbaggers.
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ABTs are not friendly to scratch and tournament bowlers. im usually 195-205 on sport patterns but unfortunately i averaged 240 in league one year. so i have to use my 240 for handicap bowling on a sport pattern where the tournament is based off of 220.....so no handicap for me while everyone else gets to use their "ABT average" (on sport patterns) with handicap based on 220. but it only takes 9 games to establish an ABT average. O but wait when youre establishing an ABT average if you bowl a game 20 pins under your entering average it doesnt count towards your ABT average. so for me any game under 220 (on sport patterns) didnt count for establishing my average, ridiculous if you ask me
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I rather get beat by real handicap bowlers any day...
I don't have to name these famous baggers. itsallaboutme, one or two of them were your regulars. One begged me to drop at least 10 sticks to make a cap for a league lol...
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If you have the ability to have averaged 240 for season you shouldn't get any handicap. ABT isn't the place for you. It's time to take a step up in competition.
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If you have the ability to have averaged 240 for season you shouldn't get any handicap. ABT isn't the place for you. It's time to take a step up in competition.
+1
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If you have the ability to have averaged 240 for season you shouldn't get any handicap. ABT isn't the place for you. It's time to take a step up in competition.
it was by accident. house had the biggest wall ive ever seen. i have no business averaging 240. usually im only in the mid 220s.
my previous point being im a moderate/high level league bowler, im a tournament bowler, im an amateur bowler. these tournaments sounded like a pretty cool idea for me. apparently not. i think the name misrepresents their produc. they cater to the 190-210 league bowler. it sould really be renamed the league bowlers' tour.
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Stop already. Nobody averages 240 for a season by accident. You average 240 by being able to use your favorite ball, stand in your favorite place and having the skill to exploit the conditions.
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Stop already. Nobody averages 240 for a season by accident. You average 240 by being able to use your favorite ball, stand in your favorite place and having the skill to exploit the conditions.
I agree to an extent. I have zero experience with ABT. Not even sure they are in the Texas area. But I do know if I were to bowl league at a particular house here in Houston, I would average 10-15 pins higher than I do at my current center. I would love to bowl there because of the competition, but I am relegated to just one league a week and my current center is where I have been for a very long time.
There are also centers in the area where I would probably average 10 pins less than I do now. Maybe if I were to bowl there longer I could figure it out, but carry-wise, it just doesn't work as well for me.
All this to say a variation of 20-25 pins within an area's bowling centers isn't necessarily uncommon. There are many reasons why people chose the center they do. Not everyone uses the highest scoring house.
But with the 20-25 pin difference, what determines that bowler's "true" average? Is it the highest averaging center's average or the lowest? Or is it in between?
This bowler isn't being punished per se, but because of the assumed scoring floor used for averages, he is limited on his ABT average. If his average from all his scores is 200, it won't matter because only those scores above 220 count. This is the decision of the tournament and the OP has to deal with it. His average will always be above the 220 base regardless of his true average.
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ABT started out as a tournament club for 205 and under. Through the years the rules have changed as the scoring pace has changed and for them to get enough entries to exist. Back when there were more scratch tournaments to bowl, ABT was the place for the guys that wanted to bowl tournaments but weren't good enough to compete at the scratch level. Back then it wasn't for the guy that had the ability to average 210+ and it sure isn't the place today for the guy that has the ability to average 240.
240 is a big number. I've been around a lot of bowling all over the country. Only really good bowlers on really easy conditions average 240 for a season.
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Agree. I didn't intend to insinuate a bad bowler can average 240. You do have to be very good and on ideal conditions for that bowler to get there.
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ABT started out as a tournament club for 205 and under. Through the years the rules have changed as the scoring pace has changed and for them to get enough entries to exist. Back when there were more scratch tournaments to bowl, ABT was the place for the guys that wanted to bowl tournaments but weren't good enough to compete at the scratch level. Back then it wasn't for the guy that had the ability to average 210+ and it sure isn't the place today for the guy that has the ability to average 240.
240 is a big number. I've been around a lot of bowling all over the country. Only really good bowlers on really easy conditions average 240 for a season.
Excellent post. My high book average over the past four years is 237. I'm under no illusion this only happened because it was booked at a very easy house, and I had an unusually good year. I really believe I'm a better bowler than I was then, but this year I'll be lucky to book 225. Conditions are everything.
I couldn't stomach the idea of joining the ABT, so I joined the PBA instead. At the senior level, I cash in Regionals about 50% of the time, although I'm under no illusions that I'm even close to the upper tier. But I take pride in the competition I have to face, and whatever I manage to accomplish. I couldn't imagine myself compromising to the ABT.
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Even though I was terrible outside of a few events, I enjoyed bowling ABT tournaments. Going in with a 196 average and bowling on sport conditions for the first time was eye opening to say the least. I averaged about 160-170 and of course when the director of my ABT branch decided to adjust my average down to 165 or so, I averaged 200 on Shark. Needless to say, I didn't make any friends that day. It looked like an obvious attempt to sandbag, but I swear there's not a sandbagging bone in my body. It was just one of those days when everything went in my favor, so many brooklyn strikes, lol!
Alas, my ABT branch shut down. The director had some health issues, and the branch was taken over by someone that wasn't local. They changed the structure and payouts got rid of the progressive pot and it all went downhill. Turnout kept getting worse and worse even before the change of ownership of the branch. Now we have DYB (do you bowl) tournaments, and have yet to attend any of those. I miss the old ABT we had in MN...
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I've spent time as both an ABT and PBA member. I certainly enjoyed PBA competition a lot more, but it's much harder to spend $220 + travel/lodging per tournament as opposed to $65 plus pots at ABT. Plus, when ABT was still active in the Chicagoland area (our branch now transitioned to RTB), there were tournaments within an hour or so of my house just about every weekend all year long. Again, this is much different than having to travel 6 plus hours to many PBA events in neighboring states.
I HATE handicap tournaments, and I've never had a ton of success in ABT due to being stuck in the middle. I'm too good to be in the lower division, which offers lower cut scores, more spots, and more money, but I'm not really good enough on Sport to compete with the guys who really at the top tier. As such, I've been a middle-of-the-road ABT player throughout my career there. I've got a 2nd-place finish, a few other Top 5's, and a whole lot of disappointing outings.
I don't like losing to guys who are getting 30-40 pins of cap per game on me, but I know what it is going in, so I don't complain too much. Long story short, if you want to bowl tournaments, ABT is a viable option, but it's far from perfect. Prepare to be frustrated by obvious baggers and, if your branch was anything like mine, the old boys' network deciding who gets re-rated and when.
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I've spent time as both an ABT and PBA member. I certainly enjoyed PBA competition a lot more, but it's much harder to spend $220 + travel/lodging per tournament as opposed to $65 plus pots at ABT. Plus, when ABT was still active in the Chicagoland area (our branch now transitioned to RTB), there were tournaments within an hour or so of my house just about every weekend all year long. Again, this is much different than having to travel 6 plus hours to many PBA events in neighboring states.
I HATE handicap tournaments, and I've never had a ton of success in ABT due to being stuck in the middle. I'm too good to be in the lower division, which offers lower cut scores, more spots, and more money, but I'm not really good enough on Sport to compete with the guys who really at the top tier. As such, I've been a middle-of-the-road ABT player throughout my career there. I've got a 2nd-place finish, a few other Top 5's, and a whole lot of disappointing outings.
I don't like losing to guys who are getting 30-40 pins of cap per game on me, but I know what it is going in, so I don't complain too much. Long story short, if you want to bowl tournaments, ABT is a viable option, but it's far from perfect. Prepare to be frustrated by obvious baggers and, if your branch was anything like mine, the old boys' network deciding who gets re-rated and when.
The good ole boys Ed Mosseau and Mike Fagan (abt Chicagoland), f*cking crooks. Whole thing is a sham.
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Long story short, if you want to bowl tournaments, ABT is a viable option, but it's far from perfect.
This is how I feel about it. I like bowling tournaments for the competitiveness factor and to bowl on more difficult patterns.
I've bowled both ABT (Handicap) and SNBT (scratch) in Vegas. I've got a 3rd place finish in each, however my 3rd place in the SNBT was when most of the big guns (David Haynes, Ron Mohr, and others) were bowling a separate year end point list tournament
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Long story short, if you want to bowl tournaments, ABT is a viable option, but it's far from perfect.
This is how I feel about it. I like bowling tournaments for the competitiveness factor and to bowl on more difficult patterns.
I've bowled both ABT (Handicap) and SNBT (scratch) in Vegas. I've got a 3rd place finish in each, however my 3rd place in the SNBT was when most of the big guns (David Haynes, Ron Mohr, and others) were bowling a separate year end point list tournament
Those guys were the reason why I didn't get into it.. not because I bowled them in league week in/week out. When they and others were using the our tough shot league in Vegas as their practice for TeamUSA qualifying, you knew they were too good even for the SNBT. Perhaps I should have given it a go.. :-\
BL.
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I've spent time as both an ABT and PBA member. I certainly enjoyed PBA competition a lot more, but it's much harder to spend $220 + travel/lodging per tournament as opposed to $65 plus pots at ABT. Plus, when ABT was still active in the Chicagoland area (our branch now transitioned to RTB), there were tournaments within an hour or so of my house just about every weekend all year long. Again, this is much different than having to travel 6 plus hours to many PBA events in neighboring states.
I HATE handicap tournaments, and I've never had a ton of success in ABT due to being stuck in the middle. I'm too good to be in the lower division, which offers lower cut scores, more spots, and more money, but I'm not really good enough on Sport to compete with the guys who really at the top tier. As such, I've been a middle-of-the-road ABT player throughout my career there. I've got a 2nd-place finish, a few other Top 5's, and a whole lot of disappointing outings.
I don't like losing to guys who are getting 30-40 pins of cap per game on me, but I know what it is going in, so I don't complain too much. Long story short, if you want to bowl tournaments, ABT is a viable option, but it's far from perfect. Prepare to be frustrated by obvious baggers and, if your branch was anything like mine, the old boys' network deciding who gets re-rated and when.
The good ole boys Ed Mosseau and Mike Fagan (abt Chicagoland), f*cking crooks. Whole thing is a sham.
I'm not going to go that far, but I've seen/experienced some less than savory things. It seems odd that certain people who have won 10+ tournaments still get 30-40 pins per game yet people outside of the old boys' network lose half of their cap after cashing once or twice. Hell, a buddy of mine had a great showing in his very first ABT event; he even threw a scratch 299 in there. I don't remember the exact amount of the re-rate, but he was basically bowling scratch in ABT from that point forward. lol
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Not sure if it applies today.... but when I bowled ABT Chicagoland back in the day I wound up forfeiting my 7th place prize money in order to pay off all the fines I racked up with them.
In my case it was mostly conduct violations, just swearing under my breath after bad shots. But, it's apparently loud enough for the scorekeepers to hear and they kept turning me in. I think the fine was $5.00 or $10.00 a pop then, the fines added up to slightly more than my winnings! LOL! (Can't keep my mouth shut) ::)