Author Topic: Am I bagger???? (Read 5643 times)

trash heap · « **on:** June 27, 2008, 05:21:18 AM »

I only used Urethane Equipment on league night for the past season. My league arsenal did not contain any reactive equipment.(Stingray/C, Scout Hi-flare Urethane, Lane #1 XXXL, and White DOT).

I always bowl in Local and State Tournaments. This year went to those tournaments with a 213 average from previous year (Reactive Equipment on THS). This year's average is 200. Difference of 13 pins a game. I can honestly state that I am a better bowler this year than previous year. I am more consistent, better spare shooter, and definitely more focused.

So....am I bagger???

302efi · « **Reply #16 on:** June 29, 2008, 09:04:03 PM »

rackattack - If he established the avg with that gear, using "better" gear in a tourney is not having an advatange since your coming in with a Urethane avg ?!?!

If he stays with the Urethane gear, no problem....but when hes uses the good gear with the Urethane avg, then theres a problem !
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quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.

Sport Bowling is a F**king joke

EagleHunter · « **Reply #17 on:** June 29, 2008, 09:34:44 PM »

So what if the equipment wasn't urethane, but a brand new Black Widow Bite drilled NEGATIVE?

To the average player, the BWB is a hook monster plain and simple, if drilled normally. Drilled this way, on most conditions, it would be pretty tough to score as normal. It would be a good tournament ball, but on a THS would be pretty worthless, unless conditions were perfect.

What if one bowled the entire league season with his tournament arsenal, one ball per night, regardless of how it worked? Knowing that this arsenal would be used in any tournaments bowled in, would this be bagging?

Bagging, according to the rules, is simply a matter of intent. If you intend to improve your game and try to the best of your ability, you are not bagging regardless of score OR the potential effect on one's handicap.

Does this allow for loopholes? ABSOLUTELY. But sadly true intent usually cannot be determined to the point of bringing charges of bagging and getting them to stick.

302efi · « **Reply #18 on:** June 29, 2008, 09:43:57 PM »

quote:
So what if

EagleHunter ~ We can "what if " thsi until the world blows up.

What if someone particed spare shooting in there league on both balls ??...Can you use that 60avg to enter a touney ?...but I was really tring to better my spare game !
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quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.

Sport Bowling is a F**king joke

The SuperHitMan · « **Reply #19 on:** June 29, 2008, 10:07:22 PM »

EagleHunter ~ We can "what if " thsi until the world blows up.

What if someone particed spare shooting in there league on both balls ??...Can you use that 60avg to enter a touney ?...but I was really tring to better my spare game !

LOL Good Point!

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I don't care if my signature is long. Deal with it.

If THS is so easy why dont you have a 220+ average

Win or Go Home...Shwosh-The SuperHitMan

EagleHunter · « **Reply #20 on:** June 29, 2008, 10:14:21 PM »

Actually, not a good point since 302 is the one who made the "what if"..."good" v. "bad" equipment argument.

If you want to make a point, then be prepared to defend it as I attempted to do.

Otherwise...what if I pretended to not own any equipment at all and bowled the whole season with a poorly fitted house ball, then showed up at tournaments with a 1st class arsenal?

Again, unless you can prove intent you have nothing.

nextbowler · « **Reply #21 on:** June 29, 2008, 10:28:29 PM »

Any time that you bowl, while not trying to bowl your best, yes, you are a
bagger.

tenpin477 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 29, 2008, 10:40:27 PM »

He is trying to bowl his best, just with Urethane equipment. Why you would bring 2 plastic balls is beyond me, extra luggage lol, but that is not bagging.

302efi · « **Reply #23 on:** June 29, 2008, 11:24:23 PM »

My point is if he uses the same gear in the tourneys that he used in leagues to establish the 200, then were fine.

The second he uses the good & better gear, then hes using the lower entering to his advantage.

Although, whats the problem with him going in and reporting his avg as 213 instead of 200, is that within the rules ?

It would be pretty bad if he wins something by only a couple sticks entering with the 200 avg when it should have been higher given the gear he was using in league to establish the lower avg.

Tell you what, I'm gonna Email USBC and see what they have to say on this and I'll point them to this topic. I'll update when they return my Email.
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quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.

Sport Bowling is a F**king joke

Edited on 6/29/2008 11:31 PM

nextbowler · « **Reply #24 on:** June 30, 2008, 02:11:14 AM »

All things considered, he does not bowl the best that he can--therefore
he is bagging.

stormerjip · « **Reply #25 on:** June 30, 2008, 02:48:24 AM »

IMHO all things considered he is bowling to the best of his ability given the circumstances. The rules do not specify that you must use same quality equipment to bowl tournaments than you do to establish average. They would not be able to prove that he could bowl better with the other gear than he did during the season. They could say the shot changed and became harder and therefore that accounted for the drop in average.

thats like say the toxic came out you used it for all season to establish average, but then wait the psycho came out which theoretically is a better more advanced better carrying ball someone could come up to you and say you cant use that cause thats not the ball you used in league, or better yet any time you buy a ball during the summer you cant use it because you didnt use it when you were bowling for your average.

to me thats like saying well I bowled say a recreational bowler starts bowling averages 150 for half season but gets injured and while he is injured is replaced on the team. since hes replaced he figures he wants to get better and try to make some money in tournaments with his friend so he gets a coach and adds equipment and through practice is a solid 185 bowler consistently but has not established that are you going to ask him to turn in a higher average because the 150 is below his skill set and new equipment. I dont see where is says he has practiced with the new equipment so all he knows is that last yr he averaged 213 we have no idea if that is still his true average so therefore is not fair to him without knowing.

just like me my last few seasons of averages
2003-04 Rally'S/Randy's State Farm Scratch    Winter     215     81
2004-05 Friday Mixed         Winter     197     81
2005-06 Wednesday Night Men     Winter     188     93
2006-07 Nu Gas Mixed         Winter     173 99
2007-08 Sunday Adult/Youth     Winter     204     78

so by your logic since i have went downhill i should still report that i average 215 because for one year with certain ball I averaged that but since then with different "better" equipment that I havent done that that I still average 215

ok remind me never to bowl with you guys in tournament

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show no mercy, kill the wounded, eat the dead

302efi · « **Reply #26 on:** June 30, 2008, 07:12:19 AM »

stormerjip ~ The difference between the Toxic and the Psycho is nill.

I think you can see the difference between Urethane/plastic and reactive.
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quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.

Sport Bowling is a F**king joke

9andaWiggle · « **Reply #27 on:** June 30, 2008, 09:22:22 AM »

Why does everyone think that just bringing different gear to the tourney will automatically increase his score? I look at it as he has been bowling with urethane all year, and has likely gotten used to how that equipment reacts in different situations. Likely, unless he's spent a lot of time with the reactive gear open bowling, he might not be as keen on when/where to make his move just because the urethane transitions are fresh in his mind.

Also, who's to say he wouldn't wind up using the urethane or plastic for half or better of the tournament due to the conditions present? How many horror stories have been told of bowling on fried lanes in a tourney due to bowling late shifts, center staff incompetence (allowing open bowling prior to tourney and not re-oiling) or equipment problems?

I say take what you want to bowl with and don't worry about it. You'll probably have to use the 213 anyway due to the 10-pin rule (if memory serves me correctly). Intent to bag is not there, IMO. After all, if you're bowling a handicap tourney, the 30 pins per set will likely not make a difference to you when facing the real sandbaggers (meaning, you still won't cash high enough for anyone to care). If the tourney is scratch, all is moot anyway.

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9~

It's a Sheep thing... You wouldn't understand!

n00dlejester · « **Reply #28 on:** June 30, 2008, 09:38:53 AM »

If you bowl scratch, you're fine. Since you bowl handicap in only local tournaments, you're gold. I think it's a great idea to be honest. I might get a urethane ball or two and give this a shot. Or maybe just weak resin and polish the crap out of them.
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Author Topic: Am I bagger???? (Read 5643 times)

trash heap

Am I bagger????

302efi

Re: Am I bagger????

EagleHunter

Re: Am I bagger????

302efi

Re: Am I bagger????

The SuperHitMan

Re: Am I bagger????

EagleHunter

Re: Am I bagger????

nextbowler

Re: Am I bagger????

tenpin477

Re: Am I bagger????

302efi

Re: Am I bagger????

nextbowler

Re: Am I bagger????

stormerjip

Re: Am I bagger????

302efi

Re: Am I bagger????

9andaWiggle

Re: Am I bagger????

n00dlejester

Re: Am I bagger????