Author Topic: Our sport encourages defeatist thinking! (Read 5442 times)

LuckyLefty · « **on:** February 08, 2006, 04:42:42 AM »

I have been blessed to be around golf most of my life...and also blessed to have crossed paths with some of the top all time pros in bowling...sr amateur stars and current winning professionals on the tour and now occassionally run into some up and nationally known up coming juniors or just post juniors in bowling.

One thing that has struck me in general is the sort of negative view of the current crop of juniors and what I view as very self defeating attitudes they have versus say aspiring golfers and also the top bowlers of the past!

While in golf Pia Nillson has set up a whole set of mental and physical training aimed at golfers aspiring to shoot and envision the possibility of shooting 18 birdies in a round....

Or what she calls

Vision 54

Bowling on the other hand disdains any great scoring on top hat conditions.
ie Robert Mushtare.

Particularly damaging to bowling I believe is the impression that high scores on a top hat are not worth anything. (Our websites continual insults to our own resident high average superstar(Rev O!) The recent disdain for the accomplishment of Robert Mushtare.

Now I know that one of America's recent favorite pastimes is self loathing...I wonder why this has become such a dominant force in bowling....versus golf glorifies the stupendous score no matter the difficulty of course...as long as a course is called "regulation"...over 6000 yards!

The effect I believe is that many bowlers that are coached in mainstream programs have this sort of outlook. Any high scoring on a top hat is worthless. Having a knack for scoring well on a difficult condition is the only type of scoring to admire.... And I believe that bowlers spend so much time bowling on tough conditions...that when they get to cake they can't or haven't conditioned the mind to expect or picture themselves scoring unbelievable numbers.

Along these lines our current center is a frequent stopping point for junior gold programs and qualifying. Often I see guys that really look that they don't have games that would score high..on a tophat seem to do very well and then other guys with say "BIG" games really struggle! Many others are so overwhelmed that to me I can only imagine that Mom and Dad are making they stay with them game...as I see silly low scores!

At one time the Pro tour seemed to rotate thru a series of undefined set of conditions...some easy and high scoring...some hard and lower scoring. Some guys never contended much on the hard sites...some guys contended well on the easy sites. We divided players up in our minds that this guy was a "winner"came thru in the clutch or a "non winner". But a player did not have to be versatile over all conditions.

Nowadays a protourist really needs to be a jack of all trades to get on tour(all 5 patterns) but maybe not a master of any! Also there aren't many wide open scoring shots on tour(unless you count pattern E....Cheetah?)

The point of this is that high scoring on a top hat's is a skill. A fun skill to have and watch! I've seen posts by TGod that this great and different skill is not seen as much and I miss it!

Also because of the group think above I believe the several great junior bowlers that I meet are limiting their abiltity to shoot these Mushtare like scores when the conditions arrive because of their lack of mental training or even regard for these types of feats that are so exciting to watch but so bowling...politically incorrect at this time!

REgards,

LUckylefty

--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

302efi · « **Reply #31 on:** February 09, 2006, 12:22:48 AM »

quote:
This post was NOT about Mushtare, Did you people only read till you saw his name?...
--------------------
-Joe
-Brunswick Lefty

Then why did LL just have to use him as the example in the original post

"Bowling on the other hand disdains any great scoring on top hat conditions...ie Robert Mushtare.

I think you need to reread the original post

--------------------
Nothing but Dyno-Thane

Live by the hook...Die by the hook

Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...

NOTHUMB · « **Reply #32 on:** February 09, 2006, 12:32:57 AM »

quote:
This post was NOT about Mushtare, Did you people only read till you saw his name?...

Nope we saw who posted the original topic and knew where it was coming from. He claims the people praise Tiger or Duval or Annika for scoring low. The people that praise them is the media and some golfers. I am not a golf fan---but I do go play about 10-15 rounds a summer. I think nothing of golf other than it is great exercise. You could make a course and putt putt course and I would be terrible. I am not impressed by anything these pros do---because I dont care.

If the PBA players bowled on the easiest of the easy and had the opportunity to score like this---would we recognize them? Or would we say "Oh well that pattern was easy"? We say it already. I saw last week or a couple weeks ago during qualifying when people were shooting 300s---"Oh they must be bowling on the easy shot". THESE ARE THE PROS that they are saying this about.

This immediately shows you the difference between golf and bowling.
--------------------
Only Losers Feel Pressure
www.thetimekillers.com

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #33 on:** February 09, 2006, 06:53:36 AM »

Well thank you Richard Cranium for realizing that.

Let's eliminate Robert Mustare from the equation..pretend he doesn't exist nor his scores....calm down....now that's it....soothe the temples relax....take a deep breath.

How do you feel about the other 7 no 900s! None thrown by a famous pro. I assume but don't know that all had nice conditions that night...except I heard Glenn Allison's non approved one no one else was over....620...but forget that too!

Do you like the existence of the other 7 900s...most on favorable conditions...I guess? Would you like to throw one?

Roto RPS thank you for sort of getting what I'm asking about!

Nothumb...I'm a BIG fan of no thumb bowling...I have an acquaintance that can go traditional OR go nothumb.. He uses no thumb when oilier and he needs more backend...He looks fantastic thumb or nothumb and is genuine kegel certified as fantastic!

I'm also a big fan of two handed bowling....I love area bowling and bowlers who tear up area bowling shots are my favorite to watch! Me unfortunately...I'm better at better scoring on a little tougher conditions my misfortune! I'd like to be both!

Again...what do you think about the other 7 900s that have been shot...do you like them? Would you shoot one if everything was right and if you did...would you love it or didain it!? I believe most of the new crop of bowlers would didain"it was too easy" it or sabotage it on the way there with negative thinking...ie I'm not good enough to shoot this...."I am not a famous pro I haven't put in enough time on my B game".

What do you think...like great scoring? Golfers do!

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

BrunsMike · « **Reply #34 on:** February 09, 2006, 08:20:57 AM »

I hate golf, main reasoning............TOO DAMN BORING!! JMO.

As for the 7 900's in exsistance, most of them were shot when the conditions and bowling actually meant something unlike todays game where the ultra wall is in effect. But, whos to say those 7 900's were not fabricated?? It would be easier to mark an X on the paper pay off the entire leauge and recieve the award when manual scoring was the best we had in technology. I congradulate the ones we have whether they were true or not only because we cannot change the past nor prove it was done legally. This is why I have decided to step into Sport Bowling, to truely work on my game and to see for my self just how easy THS's really are. I had no idea till I joined my monday night sport leauge.

The question at hand, do i like and congradulate high scoring, Yes and No. Yes if its done on Sport/PBA, no if its on THS.
--------------------
Mike Zadler
NE Lake County IL
Brunswick Equipment
Sanctioned Highs:
775 Series/288 Game
Sanctioned average (2004/2005)
194

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #35 on:** February 09, 2006, 08:33:03 AM »

Yes with qualification.

I believe all 900s done since 1997??? All probably done with Electronic scoring...and none that I'm aware of on a difficult shot!

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Ragnar · « **Reply #36 on:** February 09, 2006, 08:34:25 AM »

quote:
Other said I disdain scoring on anything but Nationals type condition.
= complete agreement.

Still waiting for you to show me the exact passage where this is stated. I'm STILL not seeing it, nor is anyone else.

Or are you willing to admit that you made this up in your cloud cuckoo land world?

--------------------
"I do desire that we may be better strangers." Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)

BrunsMike · « **Reply #37 on:** February 09, 2006, 08:45:59 AM »

quote:
Yes with qualification.

I believe all 900s done since 1997??? All probably done with Electronic scoring...and none that I'm aware of on a difficult shot!

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Okay, if there all on electronic scoring then that would make it harder to edit the scores. Theres 3 types of electronic score computers that I know of. AMF, Brunswick, and Quibec (sp). The AMF would show up with a Red X as the error or added strike. The Brunswick scoring would have either an A for add of E for error. As for the quebic? I dont remember if that shows anything or not. Been a few years. I still stand by my previous statement. Id still be impressed to see 900 shot just because the person still has to execute a somewhat decent ball on a THS for it to carry even the worst hit. What Id love to see but will never get to. Is to take those 7 people who shot the most (supposed) prestine award in bowling, with their exact feeling the night they shot their 900. See what they would have shot on a Sport Condition. Probably might have shot low 700's IF that.

No on THS.
Yes on SS/PBA.

Thats how i will stand on this topic.
--------------------
Mike Zadler
NE Lake County IL
Brunswick Equipment
Sanctioned Highs:
775 Series/288 Game
Sanctioned average (2004/2005)
194

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #38 on:** February 09, 2006, 08:48:36 AM »

I keep putting the quote...now get off this silly thing...and let the post move on. I've already said he is not in agreement. He wants to see scoring done on high level conditions.

Move on with your life!

You are spending so much time on this that you are missing the picture! Get over your obsession with me and how you want me to be you! I'm not...and your not me!

The post is about scoring...like it? You've got a lot of posts out here and all about luckylefty! Like scoring?

REgards,

LUckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

bgh · « **Reply #39 on:** February 09, 2006, 08:49:00 AM »

"Bowlers are very sensitive and really quite emotional beings"
I gave the game up for six years - I came back recently and all of the sudden I care about bowling again! Go Figure. For the longest time never gave two thoughts in a row about it. But every several months, Id get that "I wonder if that bowlers still around, or those lanes still around, or that kind of thinking - only natural after 20 years of bowling. Something about the game is alluring! "The perfect game"?

The nature of the game in itself might be the cause?
--------------------
K-----------R
--*--------*--
----*---*-----
----EX-------
----*---*-----
--*-------*---
L-----------G
The Bowling Ball Manufacturing Kingdom Scorecard (hint: they are all good)
Brunswick ***** (King)(Budweiser/Anheuser-Busch)[make Elite, Lane#1, MoRich]
Storm ***** (Prince)(Coors)[make Roto Grip, Dyno-Thane, Circle Athletics?(in transition purchased by Columbia Industries)]
Columbia **** (nobleman)(Miller)[make Track, AMF]
Ebonite *** (jester)(Strohs)[make Hammer]
Visionary (no current rating)(wizard)(microbrew?)
Lanemaster (no current rating)(knight)(more microbrew?)
[Note: The end companies usually spec out their own balls]

Edited on 2/9/2006 9:44 AM

Ragnar · « **Reply #40 on:** February 09, 2006, 08:58:04 AM »

LL, you stated that someone made a particular statement. No one can see it but you. Do you need help? All I ask is that you post the exacte quote and you cannot seem to do it. You keep making the same avowal that what was said was this or that. All I want to see is what was said. Or was it a fabrication?
Oh, by the way, when did it become OK for you to dredge up a statement made by me, returning to it again and again until I finally figured out what you were talking about, but NOT OK for me to ask you to justify your statements?
You ain't gettin' off on this one bubba.
--------------------
"I do desire that we may be better strangers." Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)

Edited on 2/9/2006 9:47 AM

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #41 on:** February 09, 2006, 09:13:25 AM »

Absurd!

Supersaw above...read it!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS now get on with you life...if you need to have a catharsisis where you post "what I don't like about Luckylefty"...do it! Please do it in another forum!
But I think we've already seen this post. How many posts before you thunder in with your (always) long withheld opinion and quit wasting time trying to have your Luckylefty post here?
PPS My intent in this post is too see what bowlers think about high scoring in their sport. I believe we are starting to see a trend! I may be getting ready to explode with a generality! It will offend the intellectual in you and the scientist in others and the economist in others... don't read it...it will have no benefit for you...You are incapable of learning anything from me...because you are my intellectual superior, your grammar and all your other wonderful knowledge of worldly and learned subjects have proven it to you.
PPPS meanwhile SOME of my ideas have been an assistance in helping phenomanal bowlers increase averages by over 20 pins per game in league play! Keep focusing on my grammar and focus most on trying NOT to get anything out of anything I post...this could be of the most value to you!
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #42 on:** February 09, 2006, 09:22:36 AM »

SS...do you like the 7 900s shot on probably not difficult conditions so far already approved?

Would you be estatic to have one...or denigrate it as..."it could only happen because the condition was absurdedly easy".

Bob Hanson...as always the voice of reason and knowledge in my opinion.
You have picked up the essence of what I am trying to post or glean as to bowling political correctness.

I think our sport only puts a value on good scoring on difficult conditions and does not value the tremendous SEPERATE set of skills that can make one a devastating open lane condition bowler! Therefore when the opportunity arrives many are unprepared to take advantage or have not opted to develop that seperate skill and mindset!

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Author Topic: Our sport encourages defeatist thinking! (Read 5442 times)

LuckyLefty

Our sport encourages defeatist thinking!

302efi

Re: Our sport encourages defeatist thinking!

NOTHUMB

Re: Our sport encourages defeatist thinking!

LuckyLefty

Re: Our sport encourages defeatist thinking!

BrunsMike

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LuckyLefty

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Ragnar

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BrunsMike

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LuckyLefty

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bgh

Re: Our sport encourages defeatist thinking!

Ragnar

Re: Our sport encourages defeatist thinking!

LuckyLefty

Re: Our sport encourages defeatist thinking!

LuckyLefty

Re: Our sport encourages defeatist thinking!