Post by: Russell on April 22, 2012, 11:46:56 AM
Another 900 bowled in CA....
So what would happen if in golf the pros kept playing 7400+yd courses and all local clubs were changed to Par 3's?....wonder if people would still care about golf very much. I mean would anyone appreciate a pro shooting 65 if everyone and their brother that could hit it in play could shoot 70?
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: TWOHAND834 on April 22, 2012, 12:54:44 PM
The only answer to this is to have USBC flatten the "house" patterns. Have to give the bowler(s) their due though. Granted there are more being shot than there were 20 years ago. But, a 900 is a 900. I guess the only equivalent would be to birdie every hole on the course? 59 is still the magic number of course. But even Annika said in an interview years ago that she felt like a 54 was possible. Ever realize that it seems most of these 900s are bowled when only 4 or 6 are on a pair; doubles leagues, trio leagues, or tournaments with only a couple people per lane? That would be needed so as to keep the oil transition to a minimum so any moves on the lane are also a minimum. Cant imagine a 900 was shot starting playing up 10 and then the 10th frame of game 3 was playing 25 out to 10. Either way....good for those that accomplish this feat.
Peace doesnt always have to be silent.
Post by: qstick777 on April 22, 2012, 01:00:53 PM
Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't.
Not sure how many 900's were thrown this year, but it still boils down to needing 36 strikes in a row.
Even if it isn't 36 perfectly executed shots, it still needs a whole of lot of things to go the right way.
Maybe instead of golf - different courses, weather conditions, etc, maybe it should be mini-golf (Putt Putt). I mean unless the lane is set up so that no matter how you throw the ball you get a strike - like those mini golf holes that no matter how you hit the ball it gets funneled into the cup - you still have to throw the ball down the lane and get all the pins to fall.
Or look on the bright side. Maybe USBC will look at the increase in 900 series and decide they finally need to make some changes.
As a "not typical BR member" - meaning I don't average 210+ and have multiple 300s to my name or get p-ssed when I don't shoot at least 700 (never even been close!) - I would love to see some changes. As it stands now, I probably won't bowll leagues anymore. I mean, you need a 210 avg to even break the top 10 on the "high average" list, and 289 to make the scratch game list.
1 thing I do love watching is the"stand on 40, rip out to 5" group show up, struggle to break 160 because the conditions aren't "right" for them, pack their stuff up and bowl "absent" for the final 2 games.
But, I guess every once in a while you can catch some breaks and get all the pins to fall. Catching 36 breaks is pretty good.
Post by: Bowl_Freak on April 22, 2012, 02:46:13 PM
817- 900global Bank Solid
803- Brunswick Vapor Zone
801- Morich Mania
ITS NEVER THE BALL OR THE LANES FAULT, ITS OPERATOR ERROR.
Post by: JOE FALCO on April 22, 2012, 03:06:41 PM
90% of the time I haven't got a chance after the first frame!!
Post by: LuckyLefty on April 22, 2012, 03:48:28 PM
For years I've been saying that the emotions of the moment have stopped people. I've been expecting the pace of them to pick up dramatically as people(VERY good bowlers) believe it is possible!
I am still amazed at righties throwing them with all the cross traffic.
Regards,
Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.
James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana
Post by: sabman on April 22, 2012, 04:48:17 PM
Just found it searching for "two hander 900".
Post by: Russell on April 22, 2012, 07:22:27 PM
I think it has more to do with the newer oils that require much less moving during the night. I remember 10 to 15 years ago moving a couple of arrows a night...now I move my eyes and feet maybe twice in a night. The only thing that changes anymore is the way the ball might go through the pins....most of the time that's a lucky guess.
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: SteveAustin2808 on April 23, 2012, 03:44:34 AM
I do not usually post much on here anymore but I figured I would chime in. Whether my thoughts on the matter are ripped to shreds I do not care but I want to say one thing. I don't care how easy a bowling center makes a shot, it could be the greatest wall of china there is, shooting a 900, you got to have a lot of factors working on your side. I have seen guys put it in the pocket shot after shot and come out shooting 650-750 and had the best ball reaction out of anyone all night. You have to get some lucky breaks, not to mention throwing the ball consistently well. I'm sure those gentlemen that have done this rare incredible feat would tell you the same. Case in point, I do not think it to be fair to come off harsh to these guys that have done something they never thought would ever be possible. Thanks for reading. God Bless!
-MP-
Michael Price - Office Manager
McCorvey's Pro Shop Staff
Phone: (256) 539-1560
McCorvey's Pro Shop - VISIT OUR BRAND NEW ONLINE STORE!
http://www.mccorveysproshop.com/
Hammer Pro Shop Regional Staff
Post by: Hoselrockets on April 23, 2012, 09:40:12 AM
regardless if easy or tough its an amazing feet just to carry all those shots. I happy for him. It also maybe the first 900 in a NASCAR league too
THB
Post by: MrPerfect on April 23, 2012, 09:59:51 AM
I agree, to me the main issue is how well the new oils hold up to traffic on a house shot. Obviously, this is dependent on the surface below the oil, but for the most part I don't have to move as much as I used to. When I was younger it wasn't un-reasonable for me to start the night on 15 and end it on 35. These days I catch a pair or two where I'll move 10 boards in a night, but for the most part I'm within a 4 board range of where I started.
At this point, throwing a 900 is more luck than anything. I never give away the pocket in league, and I know in my center there are at least 4 or 5 others who don't give it away either. So in the end it comes down to not leaving 8's, 9's, or 10's.
I think the number of people on these boards who has had a shot at 900 would suprise you.
Edited by MrPerfect on 4/23/2012 at 8:01 AM
Post by: storm making it rain on April 23, 2012, 10:15:06 AM
Anybody hear of the PERFECT game thrown in Seattle over the weekend?? Oh yeah different sport.....Maybe baseball should lower the mound or start pitching underhand to ensure it never happens again.
Fact of the matter is, yes they happen in bunches and yes maybe house shots are too easy, but to take away from getting some luck and actually carry 36 strikes in a row is a bit absurd....
Just my opinion
Post by: Russell on April 23, 2012, 11:27:17 AM
That's not even close to the same thing....
21 perfect games in baseball over 120 years....spread out pretty evenly. The game is using the same ball, same bats, and same dimensions...
21 perfect series in bowling over 120 years (ALL OF WHICH CAME IN THE LAST 15)....Using TOTALLY different balls...TOTALLY different pins....TOTALLY different lane conditions...
Sorry just doesn't make any sense....800 series were almost unheard of 50 years ago....now in my mixed league with about 10 people averaging 205 or better there were 3 this season.
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: TheGame300 on April 23, 2012, 11:51:57 AM
Russel is correct and that is where I see the problem. The lane is still 60 feet long and 42 inches wide with 10 pins at the end weighing the same as they always have yet the rate of honor scores and the 900's have just started happening the past 15-20 years.
It is not because the bowlers are getting better, they are probably getting technically worse. The reason is technology. Balls, oil patterns, etc.
I still say congrats to the people that threw the 900. Takes a whole lotta luck to carry 36 in a row.
GPS member (Lerro's Pro Shop - East Orange, NJ)
900 Global.......The Future is in your hands.
Choo-Choo.
Post by: storm making it rain on April 23, 2012, 12:28:01 PM
You're right...
There have been no advances in the bat making process, or the ball making process, or even the players themselves. Half of the perfect games in history have occurred in the past 20 years.
Russell, you are the one that compared bowling to golf, which is another sport you can not compare to bowling. But I forgot there has been no technilogical advances in that game either. I know I still use the old wooden driver myself.
Post by: txbowler on April 23, 2012, 12:52:05 PM
Interesting comments:
However, let's compare apples to apples:
The perfect game mentioned in baseball in an earlier post was done in PROFESSIONAL baseball. Against professional hitters in a professional ballpark.
Their has never been a 900 series bowled on the equal of PROFESSIONAL bowling which is a sport shot or PBA pattern.
Now, on the opposite side, yes there have been several 900 series bowled. But still, out of the billions of series that have been bowled on the easiest of conditions across the country using the ever advancing ball technology, there are only what; less than 20 perfect 900 series.
So yes, times have changed.
Before 1990, you had a 1 (Glenn Allison) in 100 trillion chance at a perfect 900
After 1990, you have a 15 in 1 billion chance at a perfect 900.
Please excuse my rounding on the number of series bowled.
But I think you get the point. Even with the easiest THS in the history of bowling, and the most powerful balls in the history of bowling, you have approximately a 0.0000001% chance of throwing a 900 every time you start a series. GOOD LUCK.
Post by: JOE FALCO on April 23, 2012, 01:06:43 PM
Excellent TEX .. tell it as it is ...
Post by: Steven on April 23, 2012, 01:21:32 PM
Amen txbowler. Looking at a 900 series in terms of mathematical odds puts the whole question in perspective. Even on cake. 
Post by: LuckyLefty on April 23, 2012, 02:35:27 PM
I would think that many/some of the 900 bowlers are on this site.
To clear up any impression that I don't admire anyone that throws an 900, 850, or 800! WOW! I commend your accomplishment, I have done none of those things. Though I fully believe I will!
For the 900 shooters I applaud the fact that before you shot it....you PROBABLY believed, "I am the likely guy to do it!" Or a version of it...."Some night...."
Since the first one was shot about what(30 ) years ago 900s were being achieved at a rate of 1 every 1.5 years, this millions and millions of games thrown every year by all bowlers all over the world. Men and woman, lefty and righty, average, above average, and truly superior bowlers the elite. Is the total now up to about 22?
The fact is, the club of bowlers capable of series of over 800 each year is very small. Their chance of doing it is very high each night when they walk in to a league bowling center with a typical league crown while is not likely that any average bowler in a house will do so at all. In fact most of the elite bowlers I know have between 1 and 3 of 800s each year. Some with even more depending on how often they bowl.
So the focus should only be on the elite....Their striking ability and percentage on a top hat is the only factor that should come in to play! Forget the others, they are not going to do it! The statistics are astronomical that they will ever come close to an 800. But the elite, well that is a different story their statistics and percentages are much better of throwing these elite series.
Regardless, as I predicted over 5 years ago the number of 900s shot each year will probably continue to go up each year. As I mentioned in previous posts to have two in a couple week span in this country does not really surprise me, though I think it is great! Whether coverstock, oils, lighter pins, livelier sidewalls, shallower gutters, better teaching, or improving belief systems. Whatever the factors that there are it will not surprise me that we see, somewhere in the not so distant future 15 a year across the world Then in the future across the world maybe some year 50 in a year!
Much like the 4 minute mile! At one time a perceived unthinkable. Now to run a 4 minute mile you are an elite performer, maybe not a world champion or olympic champion but an ELITE athlete. So it is with 800 to 900 series. Only our elite are doing them!
Often the possiblity and difference between these megaseries the 86X and above to the 900 is only carry, luck, oil conditions etc.
To the elite! May their outstanding accomplishments continue to improve!
With the highest regards for them.
Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.
James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana
Edited by LuckyLefty on 4/23/2012 at 12:39 PM
Post by: Russell on April 23, 2012, 06:45:46 PM
50 years ago these same conversations were being had around the 800 series...they were rare...only a few per year....
Where are we now?
Let's fast forward 30 years to when the guy splits high scratch series 2 ways with a 900 in his league. Who will take bowling seriously if we get to that point?
There has to be a line in the sand....
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: AlBundy33 on April 23, 2012, 07:00:55 PM
+1......and I would dare to say even up until about 30 years ago when Glenn Allison shot the original 900 (though ABC rejected it) that shooting 800 was quite an achievement.
"Pretty women make us buy beer, ugly women make us drink beer"
Post by: LuckyLefty on April 23, 2012, 11:05:34 PM
800 is still a great series and very rarely thrown by anyone except an elite!
Regards,
Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.
James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana
Post by: Russell on April 23, 2012, 11:41:41 PM
Edited for a conversation had 50 years ago....
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: pba300900 on April 24, 2012, 08:35:06 AM
I know someone made a comment on this already but just for fact, more than half of the perfect games in MLB have been thrown in the last 30 or so years. There also was a break in perfect games from 1922 to 1956. Hardly "spread out pretty evenly". The balls and bats may look the same but they are not made the way they used to be or out of the same material.
Not just any athlete can handle a bowling ball!!
800-10 : 300-8 : 299-3 : 298-3 : 11 In A Row-4
Post by: txbowler on April 24, 2012, 12:17:41 PM
Who do you want to "take bowling seriously"?
The mainstream public bowler, the mainstream public in general? If that is your long term goal, I wish you all the luck in the world. I think you'll have better luck banging your head against a brick wall.
99% of all competitive bowlers know the difference. And a majority of league bowlers know the difference.
Post by: txbowler on April 24, 2012, 12:28:55 PM
I agree that 800 has become a lot easier score to obtain over the past 20 years, however, mathematically speaking, the number of 900's has not.
millions and millions of series bowled - 21-900 series.
They would need to make the lanes 1 million times easier than they are now for a bowler to have a .1% chance of throwing a 900 series, and yet posters are predicting 2 people splitting high series awards for a pair of 900s in the same league.
A bowler in a league throws 34 series a year. You are predicting that 2 bowlers will shoot 900 in the same league? So balls and lane conditions will become so easy in our future that 900s become a 1/34 chance for the elite bowler?
Wow
Post by: Russell on April 24, 2012, 01:33:16 PM
Let's look at history....50 years ago did we imagine that leagues would have multiple 800s (mixed leagues)? Did we imagine there would be bowlers in their early 30s with 100+ 300 games? I'm just looking at the trend....why would the curve stop here? In 10 years we may have oils that don't move at all....how hard would it be to just find a line and camp out? I'm not saying it's easy....or ever will be. 800 isn't easy today...but it's a LOT more common than 50 years ago....so why won't it be the same 50 years from now?
We're getting closer to that all the time....
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: txbowler on April 24, 2012, 02:02:04 PM
I agree it's easier but not that much easier.
If I remember correctly, another poster somewhere in this forum or another posted there were 2.3 million members of USBC last year. And just for math I'll assume the average is 2 leagues per member (not idea how close that is to accurate).
So 2.3 million times 68 (34 sets a year x 2 leagues) = 156,400,000 series bowled last year.
Not sure how many 800 series were bowled last year, but I'll use 20,000 as a guess.
156400000/20000 = 7820
So for every 7820 series bowled across America, one 800 is bowled.
So every time you step on the lanes you have a 0.00001278 chance of throwing a 800.
So, if the current scoring conditions mathematically get 10000 times easier than they are today, you will still only have a 1% chance of throwing a 800.
Now of course for a higher average bowler, the percentages would be different and higher but still way less than 1%.
Yes it is easier than it used to be, but it is still very very very hard.
Post by: Russell on April 24, 2012, 02:25:46 PM
I never once said 800 was easy....you're preaching to the choir. I'm just saying that it's easier compared to 50 years ago. Look up the number of 800s in 1980 when there were just shy of 5 MILLION league bowlers. ...and saying that trend shows no sign of slowing. With how far scoring has come in 50 years is it more logical to assume the curve to continue or slow down?
This article is from 2002 and talks about the exponential increase in 300 games....
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/bowling/2002-12-03-cover-300_x.htm
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: Bowl_Freak on April 24, 2012, 04:28:53 PM
817- 900global Bank Solid
803- Brunswick Vapor Zone
801- Morich Mania
ITS NEVER THE BALL OR THE LANES FAULT, ITS OPERATOR ERROR.
Post by: LuckyLefty on April 24, 2012, 08:39:15 PM
I am saying as the number of elite bowlers across the world increases we will see many more than a 900 every 1.5 years.
I am saying start to expect to see one every 5 months, then one every 2 months. I am speaking across the world.
Again, the chance of an average bowler doing it 900 are remote. It hasn't been done and WON'T be done. An average bowlers strike ratio of maybe 3 to 4 a game make it a mathematical impossibility. Frankly if a bowler only averages 6 strikes a game in will probably never happen for that bowler.
It can only realistically happen to very good bowlers on very favorable conditions when they are hot and averaging in the recent hot streak close to 9 strikes or above per game.
Tell me of the 201 bowler who has done it? Or of the 190 bowler who has done it! Almost all have been very very very good bowlers. Also usually powerful strikers! The elite.
Take your worldwide elite, add all their series thrown and then calculate your percentages. Also throw out their sport leagues, it won't happen there either.
Regards,
Luckylefty
PS as the pro tour dies and more and more gifted bowlers are at home and not on tour and bowling on top hats more 900s will be thrown also.
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.
James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana
Post by: luvmykings on April 25, 2012, 12:12:32 AM
Just Stormin' through!
Post by: MI 2 AZ on April 25, 2012, 01:14:35 AM
As to the statistical odds of bowling a 900, does that take into account the skill factor of the bowler or the difficulty/easiness of the house?
Are 900's only being bowled in the USA? Does that mean USA bowlers are more skilled? With some 3 million league bowlers in the USA and some 10 million competitive bowlers worldwide, how many are being bowled in other countries? (that data was from about 2003 bowl.com, I can't find the current data on their so user friendly website)
_________________________________________
Need bowling information? - Please check this: BR FAQ