Author Topic: Another college question (Read 6943 times)

Gizmo823 · « **on:** March 11, 2014, 01:07:49 PM »

The girls manage transition pretty well, or at least they don't break down the lanes as fast as the guys do. I'll see the guys sometimes lofting gutter caps after 3 games though. Is there a strategy behind this? I could see maybe mucking the shot up to try to block teams out if you've got guys that are good at lofting gutter caps, or if you have better bowlers that are able to adjust quicker. However, I would think that if you have better bowlers, slowing the transition would be more to their advantage because it would increase their scores while the lesser bowlers would still struggle. Enlighten me here, I'm curious.

itsallaboutme · « **Reply #1 on:** March 11, 2014, 01:26:53 PM »

I don't think that is a situation unique to college bowling. The ladies play the lanes like the seniors as they are kind of forced to due to lower rev rates and the guys get while the getting is good.

spmcgivern · « **Reply #2 on:** March 11, 2014, 01:28:14 PM »

The women's teams don't typically have high rev bowlers. They all end up playing the same part of the lane. And this is true team to team. This means the shot holds up pretty well.

The men's teams have a wide variety of bowling styles. And, a lot of them only have one game. It is harder to get all of the guys playing a typical line and making adjustments off of that line. Plus, you move so much, you would hope that everyone is playing the shot properly, but they usually don't. Their egos typically get in the way.

Gizmo823 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 11, 2014, 01:51:51 PM »

Ok, that's how it appeared to me, but I didn't want to get yelled at for being "negative" again. I'm more of a destroy the 4-5-6 boards then get something out like a Hyroad and just make little moves to more head oil every once and a while kind of guy. The gutter cap lofting thing inside of 3 games doesn't make any sense, so I thought there may have been some kind of strategy there.

However, they move from pair to pair so frequently that there's really no time to groove a shot in, so I guess getting what you can get while you can is about all they can really do.

northface28 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 11, 2014, 03:21:08 PM »

The usual suspects, i.e. Robert Morris/Wichita St. etc are much adept at playing in and lofting gutter caps than a majority of other teams, its a competitive advantage for them to do so.

JustRico · « **Reply #5 on:** March 11, 2014, 03:41:17 PM »

This is something that happens on tour, in match play, where many of the guys break them down in regards to offense instead of defense...much of the time it gives opponents as much of an advantage instead thinking of a teams strength as opposed to weaker teams
It still comes down to shot making but in college events many of the teams use too much surface too early thus forcing everybody left too quick

Gizmo823 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 11, 2014, 04:01:42 PM »

The last sentence is what I was I thought or noticed, and I assumed it had to be strategy since it didn't make much sense . .

Quote from: JustRico on March 11, 2014, 03:41:17 PM

This is something that happens on tour, in match play, where many of the guys break them down in regards to offense instead of defense...much of the time it gives opponents as much of an advantage instead thinking of a teams strength as opposed to weaker teams
It still comes down to shot making but in college events many of the teams use too much surface too early thus forcing everybody left too quick

JustRico · « **Reply #7 on:** March 11, 2014, 04:13:19 PM »

Anymore it seems today's bowler tries to blow open a condition too quickly to try & gain an advantage and in the long run creating a tougher condition

Too much alleged strategy used instead of bowling

bradl · « **Reply #8 on:** March 11, 2014, 06:13:29 PM »

Quote from: JustRico on March 11, 2014, 03:41:17 PM

This is something that happens on tour, in match play, where many of the guys break them down in regards to offense instead of defense...much of the time it gives opponents as much of an advantage instead thinking of a teams strength as opposed to weaker teams
It still comes down to shot making but in college events many of the teams use too much surface too early thus forcing everybody left too quick

Very true here.

But the other thing to think about is the age of the bowlers and their mental game at this time. With the exception of the depth of talent on some of the teams, it is a bit lacking. What I mean by that (and I'll admit it; in my college days I was just as guilty of it myself) is that (it was mentioned earlier, too) the guys would only play their A game, because that was all that they knew. That came down to which ball could outhook the others and pound the pocket. Good story and learning lesson for me here:

Coming straight out of high school, I fell into the same trap that Marshall Holman did in that match against Marc McDowell. Holman was struggling to carry with urethane, while McDowell pounded the pocket with the XCalibur. Same thing happened to me at my first tournament (can't remember the name of it but it was at Dave Soutar's house at the time: NKC Pro Bowl in N. Kansas City). I come out of the gate thinking that I'm good with my Blue and Blue Pearl Hammers...

And get completely blown out of the water by people throwing the XCalibur, Rhino Pro, and Turbo-X. We left that tournament on a Sunday; Monday morning, I pulled $250 together, went straight to my pro shop, and bought both of those. Now, that got me my A game going, but it didn't teach me how or when to ball down and more importantly, ball down and change my look completely; Hence, my B game, where I can play up the line with whichever ball I choose. With the right coaching for me and watching various styles (like those on the Senior tour), I developed that game in college. Did it wonderfully with that Turbo-X, XCalibur, and Nitro/R when it came out (I skipped the Crush/R).

My point: do you see those teams making the right decision with surface adjustments, or their mental game, in knowing when to ball down and square up? I mean, it's harder to power through and create the shot than it is to change your line and adjust to the shot.

Quote from: JustRico on March 11, 2014, 04:13:19 PM

Anymore it seems today's bowler tries to blow open a condition too quickly to try & gain an advantage and in the long run creating a tougher condition

Too much alleged strategy used instead of bowling

Exactly.

BL.

Pinbuster · « **Reply #9 on:** March 11, 2014, 06:44:07 PM »

I know a couple of guys who used to tour.

About a dozen years ago when they were going to go to the all exempt tour, there was a large influx of tournament qualifiers for the PBA. Anybody who had thought about going out, went out and tried to make it.

They ended up with a couple of qualifying squads and one squad had a lot more of the newer players.

The tour players on that squad hated it because that squads scoring was much lower.

The experienced tour guys would work together and break down the shots, generally scoring would increase after a game or two.

But the squad with all the rookies played the lanes all over, all trying to play their A games and would end up destroying the shot for everyone.

I believe they finally went to getting equal number of rookies in both squads and some rotation of experienced players between squads.

After a few months most of the rookies had went back home and things settled down.

itsallaboutme · « **Reply #10 on:** March 11, 2014, 07:00:50 PM »

More times than not what happens in two squad tournaments is B squad starts about an arrow too far left because they come in halfway through A's block and that's where they are playing by then.

Gizmo823 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 12, 2014, 08:03:34 AM »

Well I'd agree here to an extent, but the thing that people seem to be leaving out of these college threads or disregarding is don't these teams have coaches? Yes I realize the age of the kids, yes I realize they're lacking in experience, because a lot of them go into college having never seen a sport pattern before. But isn't that what coaches are for? Do they not exist, or are they not very good?

Quote from: bradl on March 11, 2014, 06:13:29 PM

Quote from: JustRico on March 11, 2014, 03:41:17 PM
This is something that happens on tour, in match play, where many of the guys break them down in regards to offense instead of defense...much of the time it gives opponents as much of an advantage instead thinking of a teams strength as opposed to weaker teams
It still comes down to shot making but in college events many of the teams use too much surface too early thus forcing everybody left too quick

Very true here.

But the other thing to think about is the age of the bowlers and their mental game at this time. With the exception of the depth of talent on some of the teams, it is a bit lacking. What I mean by that (and I'll admit it; in my college days I was just as guilty of it myself) is that (it was mentioned earlier, too) the guys would only play their A game, because that was all that they knew. That came down to which ball could outhook the others and pound the pocket. Good story and learning lesson for me here:

Coming straight out of high school, I fell into the same trap that Marshall Holman did in that match against Marc McDowell. Holman was struggling to carry with urethane, while McDowell pounded the pocket with the XCalibur. Same thing happened to me at my first tournament (can't remember the name of it but it was at Dave Soutar's house at the time: NKC Pro Bowl in N. Kansas City). I come out of the gate thinking that I'm good with my Blue and Blue Pearl Hammers...

And get completely blown out of the water by people throwing the XCalibur, Rhino Pro, and Turbo-X. We left that tournament on a Sunday; Monday morning, I pulled $250 together, went straight to my pro shop, and bought both of those. Now, that got me my A game going, but it didn't teach me how or when to ball down and more importantly, ball down and change my look completely; Hence, my B game, where I can play up the line with whichever ball I choose. With the right coaching for me and watching various styles (like those on the Senior tour), I developed that game in college. Did it wonderfully with that Turbo-X, XCalibur, and Nitro/R when it came out (I skipped the Crush/R).

My point: do you see those teams making the right decision with surface adjustments, or their mental game, in knowing when to ball down and square up? I mean, it's harder to power through and create the shot than it is to change your line and adjust to the shot.

Quote from: JustRico on March 11, 2014, 04:13:19 PM
Anymore it seems today's bowler tries to blow open a condition too quickly to try & gain an advantage and in the long run creating a tougher condition

Too much alleged strategy used instead of bowling

Exactly.

BL.

JustRico · « **Reply #12 on:** March 12, 2014, 08:19:24 AM »

Being an asst coach at Fresno, I can tell you our coaching is quite experienced...it's with other coaches that automatically seek the advantage without contemplating the ramifications or the latter part of the round.
A great example is a tourney they ran a very short pattern, Fresno immediately went to plastic and ended up winning by a huge amount, due to the inability of the other teams to not recognize which way to migrate and more than one team not carrying plastic.
First inclination seems to always migrate left (for right-handers) no matter what their equipment is telling them

Gizmo823 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 12, 2014, 09:35:10 AM »

And that's what I'm getting at, but I don't want to get accused of being an ass. We have a youth league starting this spring that prepares kids for Jr Gold, and managing lane transition and paying attention to ball motion AND where and how everyone else is playing the lanes is going to be a big focus. I'd love to teach them how to throw plastic too, but that might be biting off too much . .

Quote from: JustRico on March 12, 2014, 08:19:24 AM

Being an asst coach at Fresno, I can tell you our coaching is quite experienced...it's with other coaches that automatically seek the advantage without contemplating the ramifications or the latter part of the round.
A great example is a tourney they ran a very short pattern, Fresno immediately went to plastic and ended up winning by a huge amount, due to the inability of the other teams to not recognize which way to migrate and more than one team not carrying plastic.
First inclination seems to always migrate left (for right-handers) no matter what their equipment is telling them

spmcgivern · « **Reply #14 on:** March 12, 2014, 09:41:15 AM »

Even though the other teams have coaches by title, doesn't mean they have coaches that know what they are doing. Some teams have good coaches like Fresno St. with Ric. Some teams have idiots like Texas A&M when I was coaching there. I have learned a lot since then and could do a much better job now, but I don't think I can ever be as good as Ric or some of the better teams.

I know a lot of the women's NCAA teams have good coaches and a couple of very successful teams that did well despite their coach. In the women's game, only a couple of teams have real talent 1-5.

Author Topic: Another college question (Read 6943 times)

Gizmo823

Another college question

itsallaboutme

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spmcgivern

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Gizmo823

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northface28

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JustRico

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Gizmo823

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JustRico

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bradl

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Pinbuster

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itsallaboutme

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Gizmo823

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JustRico

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Gizmo823

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spmcgivern

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