Author Topic: Another college question (Read 6942 times)

Gizmo823 · « **on:** March 11, 2014, 01:07:49 PM »

The girls manage transition pretty well, or at least they don't break down the lanes as fast as the guys do. I'll see the guys sometimes lofting gutter caps after 3 games though. Is there a strategy behind this? I could see maybe mucking the shot up to try to block teams out if you've got guys that are good at lofting gutter caps, or if you have better bowlers that are able to adjust quicker. However, I would think that if you have better bowlers, slowing the transition would be more to their advantage because it would increase their scores while the lesser bowlers would still struggle. Enlighten me here, I'm curious.

JustRico · « **Reply #16 on:** March 12, 2014, 10:49:18 AM »

Using plastic is merely understanding what the lane is providing you with...no different than any other situation
Much of understanding ball motion or reaction is realizing what a good shot is and simply making adjustments...let the shot provide them with the information needed to react

bradl · « **Reply #17 on:** March 12, 2014, 12:56:30 PM »

Quote from: spmcgivern on March 12, 2014, 09:41:15 AM

Even though the other teams have coaches by title, doesn't mean they have coaches that know what they are doing. Some teams have good coaches like Fresno St. with Ric. Some teams have idiots like Texas A&M when I was coaching there. I have learned a lot since then and could do a much better job now, but I don't think I can ever be as good as Ric or some of the better teams.

I have to agree with this as well.

Giz, if you get the chance, watch the finals of the Music City classic. You'll see some great team bowling, and 2 phenomenal games shot by Nebraska and Vanderbilt. Note where they were playing versus where the other teams were throughout the entire course of the day, let alone the tournament.

To emphasize Nebraska for a bit.. Their coach is the coach I had 20 years ago. He's still running the program there, which produced some great bowlers; two off the top of my head are PWBA champion Brenda (Norman) Mack, Diandra Asbaty, Brenda Edwards, and Kim Straub. I want to say that Machuga came from there as well (was after my time). But it wasn't that they produced that talent; it was there from the word go.

The coaches helped us out a lot with adjustments, as with me, putting together a completely different look than what I was used to doing. From the short number of 300s I've bowled (five), 2 were shot with my B game, with the rest being my A game. To be able to change my equipment, look, and my form (albeit slightly), not only gave me a new line to play, but also helped with others to get them to ball down, and throw a new line that isn't in their comfort zone.

It does help that the coaches should know what they are doing, but it does come down to the bowlers, and their ability to throw good shots. Perhaps at that part, they are too busy worrying about their chants than executing the shot..?

BL.

Gizmo823 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 12, 2014, 01:00:07 PM »

It's a reaction shape thing with plastic that gives most of them problems. They still try to turn it into a hockey stick type reaction.

That's how I'm going to have to go about it. If I can also show them how to break down a lane the right way, it will be easier for them to learn how to figure out adjustments. Last summer was the first year for it, and a lot of them had pretty significant problems with adjustment because they'd just start in the middle of the lane and try to swing it or they'd pay too much attention to the "recommended" line. Ours is a higher friction house, so most tougher patterns play a bit differently than they're "supposed" to. They'd blow up the track, and then they couldn't move right because they'd get skid/hook/skid, or if they moved left, they'd quite often miss the track burn, so one shot would miss the headpin right, and the next would miss it left. The guy that ran it last year was trying to teach them about the differences between long, medium, and short patterns and how the oil volumes can make them play and break down, etc., but the kids ended up paying more attention to where the pattern analysis suggested they play at than the reaction they were actually getting, so hopefully we can simplify it this year. We just have house shots around here, so I think he went a bit too fast too quick last year. There's going to have to be quite a lot of foundation work laid on how to interpret what they're seeing first. Saying "I moved 2 and 1 left," is all fine and good, but if they tugged it 2 boards left and are making a move off a bad shot rather than a reaction change . . that's about the stage most of them are at right now. They're all trying hard and anxious to get better though! They want to learn, and that's most of the battle.

Quote from: JustRico on March 12, 2014, 10:49:18 AM

Using plastic is merely understanding what the lane is providing you with...no different than any other situation
Much of understanding ball motion or reaction is realizing what a good shot is and simply making adjustments...let the shot provide them with the information needed to react

Gizmo823 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 12, 2014, 01:24:40 PM »

Yeah I watched every minute of the whole tournament haha. And yes, I'd say their ball reaction was the best out of anyone's, especially the anchor bowlers for both teams, really impressed with both of them throughout. And on the other hand, there was one girl that I saw who was playing too far right the entire tournament, had a decent amount of hand, but 75% of her shots ended up on the left side of the headpin. If the bowlers are just missing shots, I can handle that. But I couldn't just sit and watch her go brooklyn for 12 solid games without saying anything . .

Quote from: bradl on March 12, 2014, 12:56:30 PM

Quote from: spmcgivern on March 12, 2014, 09:41:15 AM
Even though the other teams have coaches by title, doesn't mean they have coaches that know what they are doing. Some teams have good coaches like Fresno St. with Ric. Some teams have idiots like Texas A&M when I was coaching there. I have learned a lot since then and could do a much better job now, but I don't think I can ever be as good as Ric or some of the better teams.

I have to agree with this as well.

Giz, if you get the chance, watch the finals of the Music City classic. You'll see some great team bowling, and 2 phenomenal games shot by Nebraska and Vanderbilt. Note where they were playing versus where the other teams were throughout the entire course of the day, let alone the tournament.

To emphasize Nebraska for a bit.. Their coach is the coach I had 20 years ago. He's still running the program there, which produced some great bowlers; two off the top of my head are PWBA champion Brenda (Norman) Mack, Diandra Asbaty, Brenda Edwards, and Kim Straub. I want to say that Machuga came from there as well (was after my time). But it wasn't that they produced that talent; it was there from the word go.

The coaches helped us out a lot with adjustments, as with me, putting together a completely different look than what I was used to doing. From the short number of 300s I've bowled (five), 2 were shot with my B game, with the rest being my A game. To be able to change my equipment, look, and my form (albeit slightly), not only gave me a new line to play, but also helped with others to get them to ball down, and throw a new line that isn't in their comfort zone.

It does help that the coaches should know what they are doing, but it does come down to the bowlers, and their ability to throw good shots. Perhaps at that part, they are too busy worrying about their chants than executing the shot..?

BL.

JustRico · « **Reply #20 on:** March 12, 2014, 01:50:35 PM »

It's understanding what or how your players see the lane and understanding what the ball is doing...not so much primarily theirs but the teams

bradl · « **Reply #21 on:** March 12, 2014, 02:31:24 PM »

Quote from: Gizmo823 on March 12, 2014, 01:24:40 PM

Yeah I watched every minute of the whole tournament haha. And yes, I'd say their ball reaction was the best out of anyone's, especially the anchor bowlers for both teams, really impressed with both of them throughout. And on the other hand, there was one girl that I saw who was playing too far right the entire tournament, had a decent amount of hand, but 75% of her shots ended up on the left side of the headpin. If the bowlers are just missing shots, I can handle that. But I couldn't just sit and watch her go brooklyn for 12 solid games without saying anything . .

I'll buy that.

That's why when I was in collegiates, we always had one or two people extra coming along, because we could have been pulled from the lineup.. or better yet, we took two teams with us. If a bowler was struggling like the above, we'd pull in someone from the 2nds and move them to that team. Unless they would be short for numbers, it's not good coaching at all to let someone stay in the lineup when you know they aren't executing well. Yes, it may tear a bit into their confidence to get pulled, but they also need to take that as a plus to know that that is what they need to work on their next practice session.

Another true story: I struggled after that Mid-States Tournament in St. Louis that was mentioned in the other thread (I loved that tournament!) the first year I went to it. I couldn't pick up a 10 pin to save my life. For a good hour during the next practice session, one of our asst. coaches had me do nothing but shoot the 10 pin, with my main objective being to take the 10 pin off the rack.

That helped me that night, because that was the night where our head coach had us start at one lane, take the 7 and 10 off the rack, then do the same thing down 24 lanes. I was the 4th or 5th one out in 45 minutes. Some of the others took nearly 2 hours, if not longer.

That one night helped me with picking up many a corner pin, let alone 6-7-10, 6-7, and big 4.

BL.

spmcgivern · « **Reply #22 on:** March 12, 2014, 03:26:19 PM »

Gizmo, I am getting a different feeling base on your last few comments. Are you taking over a program?

Ric made a great point. The team needs to try and be self sufficient when it comes to figuring out the lanes. They need to know what they see and what it means. When to change equipment, when to change lines or even when to change loft. But the key is, they don't necessarily need to know what THEIR shot is doing.

When people bowl, they invariably perceive what their shot is doing differently than what is real or perceived by others. Based on what the rest of the team is seeing, a bowler's shot should be predetermined before they step on the lane. The bowler then becomes a robot of sorts and executes their shot. Based on the reaction the rest of the team sees, adjustments can be made for the next shot.

Also, I know Brad said something about switching out players from your B team and such, but review the rules carefully. I don't think this is allowed anymore. Your team consists of as many bowlers as it needs, but you cannot have extras bowling on a different team. Your replacements will have to come in cold.

JustRico · « **Reply #23 on:** March 12, 2014, 03:29:17 PM »

No replacements other than the 6 or 7 on your roster not another team

spmcgivern · « **Reply #24 on:** March 12, 2014, 03:39:32 PM »

Quote from: JustRico on March 12, 2014, 03:29:17 PM

No replacements other than the 6 or 7 on your roster not another team

Ric, do y'all have A and B teams (varsity / JV) or just one team?

JustRico · « **Reply #25 on:** March 12, 2014, 03:49:13 PM »

We carry 2 for the first half...2 mens of 6 or 7 then whittle to one team for the 2nd half and sectionals plus natls (when they make natls of course)

Gizmo823 · « **Reply #26 on:** March 12, 2014, 03:50:40 PM »

No, just trying to learn as much as possible. We have a lot of kids in town that are heading off to college soon, going to Jr Gold, or just generally getting more interested in doing more than just league bowling. It would be ignorant to think my way is the only way. I'd like to think that I have quite a bit of knowledge, but knowledge is useless unless you know how to communicate it, and communication is a lot more than just words. I like to take a few things and look at them from every angle possible, even if it's ridiculous, just to get a better grasp on stuff. I'm a big concept guy, I feel like if you can get the CONCEPT of something, you should be able to figure the details out on your own in your own way. But just like anything else, everyone can also get concepts in several different ways. Like surfaces, the math people understand coefficient of friction, surface area, oil viscosity, etc., and some people understand tire analogies. They may not understand or know all the information, but if they get the idea behind it, the information then becomes almost common sense. If the lanes are dry and they can't understand why their Hyper Cell isn't hooking as much as their Vibe, you tell them they're putting snow tires on a stock car, and all the sudden they understand! Then all the technical stuff or "mumbo jumbo" is more easily absorbed.

Quote from: spmcgivern on March 12, 2014, 03:26:19 PM

Gizmo, I am getting a different feeling base on your last few comments. Are you taking over a program?

Ric made a great point. The team needs to try and be self sufficient when it comes to figuring out the lanes. They need to know what they see and what it means. When to change equipment, when to change lines or even when to change loft. But the key is, they don't necessarily need to know what THEIR shot is doing.

When people bowl, they invariably perceive what their shot is doing differently than what is real or perceived by others. Based on what the rest of the team is seeing, a bowler's shot should be predetermined before they step on the lane. The bowler then becomes a robot of sorts and executes their shot. Based on the reaction the rest of the team sees, adjustments can be made for the next shot.

Also, I know Brad said something about switching out players from your B team and such, but review the rules carefully. I don't think this is allowed anymore. Your team consists of as many bowlers as it needs, but you cannot have extras bowling on a different team. Your replacements will have to come in cold.

the stylish one · « **Reply #27 on:** March 12, 2014, 05:59:54 PM »

Better go east for bowling to be a varsity sport. In the west, is more a club sport.

bradl · « **Reply #28 on:** March 12, 2014, 06:59:40 PM »

Quote from: the stylish one on March 12, 2014, 05:59:54 PM

Better go east for bowling to be a varsity sport. In the west, is more a club sport.

Unfortunately, I agree with this.

In the Sacramento area, Sacramento State Univ. won't even sponsor a program; yet 20 miles away, Univ. of California-Davis has a team. Next closest are Fresno State (already mentioned), and San Jose State (Tony Reyes was coaching that team).

After that, Long Beach State, California State, Fullerton (Missy Parkin's alma mater), and San Diego State are roughly it. Next closest are Arizona, Arizona State, then further east for the better teams. Unfortunately, basketball, football, and baseball dominate this side of the country.

BL.

JustRico · « **Reply #29 on:** March 12, 2014, 07:12:20 PM »

Fresno is a club sport but definitely not treated as one...won the natl title 3 yrs ago

bradl · « **Reply #30 on:** March 12, 2014, 11:15:49 PM »

Quote from: JustRico on March 12, 2014, 07:12:20 PM

Fresno is a club sport but definitely not treated as one...won the natl title 3 yrs ago

Really? even though the women's teams are sponsored by the NCAA? it is still a club sport?

Nebraska and Wichita State are definitely not club sports, at least for the women..

BL.

Author Topic: Another college question (Read 6942 times)

Gizmo823

Another college question

JustRico

Re: Another college question

bradl

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Gizmo823

Re: Another college question

Gizmo823

Re: Another college question

JustRico

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bradl

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spmcgivern

Re: Another college question

JustRico

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spmcgivern

Re: Another college question

JustRico

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Gizmo823

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the stylish one

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bradl

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JustRico

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bradl

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