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Author Topic: What causes messangers?  (Read 1342 times)

Stormkid84

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What causes messangers?
« on: February 17, 2009, 12:29:38 AM »
What actually causes messengers?  Ball speed, revs, angle, or a combination of them all.  I have a decent rev rate and all my messengers seem to go in front  of the 10.  I get maybe 1 every 8 games.
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Me: "These lanes are tight. I have 2 boards!"
My buddy with front 8: "Me too!"
Me: "Yeah, but yours both have arrows on them, and an arrow in between!"
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charlest

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Re: What causes messangers?
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2009, 08:47:25 AM »
Ball speed, rev rate, hook out when the ball hits the pocket, luck as to where the head pin hits the side wall, having lively enough side boards, etc.

If you're always light enough in the pocket for the head pin to go in front of the 10 pin, you're not hitting the pocket high enough or flush enough. You're relying on luck to carry. Try hitting the pocket flush. Maybe then you'll only leave solid 8 pins.
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Edited on 2/17/2009 9:51 AM
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J_w73

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Re: What causes messangers?
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2009, 05:35:29 PM »
I'm betting your style is getting the ball down the lane and it snapping hard at the backend?  That is my game and I almost never get a messenger to take out the 10 pin. Always in front of it.  It is cause the ball is probably not coming in at the optimum angle and is coming in at too much angle which makes me actually hit the pocket a bit lighter then a conventional flush shot Therefore the ball is more on the side or behind the head pin throwing it left and not back enough.  With my angle if I hit flush flush I leave 9 pins.
I have actually changed my game recently to more straight up and not as extreme angles at the break point.. getting more messengers and better carry..
before I had to be perfect with my entry angle, speed, and pocket entry spot..
now it seems heavy, light, and pocket seems to carry ..

just a guess.. let me know if that helps or makes sense.
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
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DON DRAPER

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Re: What causes messangers?
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2009, 08:22:19 PM »
before urethane equipment cam along messenger strikes were almost nonexistent. you couldn't get enough angle of entry with plastic or hard rubber balls and the backends weren't usually cleaned every day to accomodate the reaction on the backend.
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azus

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Re: What causes messangers?
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2009, 05:17:08 AM »
I get more messengers when i use a ball that generates a higher entry angle. Yesterday I got a messenger that took out the 6-10. I used a ball that makes a big move on the backend.
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Stormkid84

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Re: What causes messangers?
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2009, 08:17:17 AM »
quote:
I'm betting your style is getting the ball down the lane and it snapping hard at the backend?

Nope, more of a slight swing. 90% of my equipment is solid cause pearls give me over/under.  This post was just some food for thought cause my teammates seem to get 4 messengers apiece. And it just confuses me why...lol
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Me: "These lanes are tight. I have 2 boards!"
My buddy with front 8: "Me too!"
Me: "Yeah, but yours both have arrows on them, and an arrow in between!"
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KDawg77

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Re: What causes messangers?
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2009, 08:26:34 AM »
In short...

Physics.
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J_w73

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Re: What causes messangers?
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2009, 08:36:24 AM »
quote:
quote:
I'm betting your style is getting the ball down the lane and it snapping hard at the backend?

Nope, more of a slight swing. 90% of my equipment is solid cause pearls give me over/under.  This post was just some food for thought cause my teammates seem to get 4 messengers apiece. And it just confuses me why...lol
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Me: "These lanes are tight. I have 2 boards!"
My buddy with front 8: "Me too!"
Me: "Yeah, but yours both have arrows on them, and an arrow in between!"


ok.. so I'm wrong.. next step.. what weight ball?  If you have the power to get a messenger and it is front of the 10 pin then like said above.. physics..
your stuff may still be going slightly long and hitting behind the head pin too much.  There is a guy in my league that has a messenger that never misses the 10 pin.. well 7 pin.. he is a lefty. I think it is part of his game now.
I have seen nights where he gets 5 or 6 a game.

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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180



Edited on 2/18/2009 9:39 AM
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pin-chaser

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Re: What causes messangers?
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2009, 11:04:56 AM »
Stored energy and entry angle causes messengers.
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JD74

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Re: What causes messangers?
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2009, 12:02:13 PM »
I agree with the above posts, speed, revs and entry angle all play a big part in it. I get probably 4-5 a game atleast, sometimes more than one per frame. But its because I throw 2 handed, high speed, high revs, with lengthly, polished, high powered equipment.
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tenpinspro

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Re: What causes messangers?
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2009, 01:51:22 PM »
From my personal analysis, a messenger tends to occur for tweeners when the ball has stored energy/driving power but actually lacks in continuous finish or entry angle.  Whether it be caused by a heavy concentration of oil in the center part of the lane, carrydown or the bowler's style (ala Walter Ray), the ball makes a turn but looks like it stops at the point of impact.  This may or may not be visible to the human eye but it does take a trained "eye" to see it.

I used to get quite a few messengers with urethane (has stored energy but doesn't really "hook" into/thru the pins) but since the evolution of reactives, the balls are able to finish harder or have the ability of a more continuous finish.  I seldom get messengers now unless the backend part of the lane is described as above.

Most higher rev rate bowlers (like JD74 @ 480 rpms or a Wes Malott/Jones/Simard) have a greater chance of sending messengers simply due to the raw power of revs.

The scout that comes up short or in front of the 10/7 is actually showing the amount of deflection at the point of impact.  A scout is similar to a bank shot in pool (say from side pocket to corner pocket), it needs to be driven to the side wall at a certain angle to get to the 10/7.  If the pin comes up short, it actually wasn't hit "strong" enough to produce the initial angle.
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