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Author Topic: Anyone own two urethanes?  (Read 5105 times)

xrayjay

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Anyone own two urethanes?
« on: December 16, 2016, 01:28:20 PM »
I'm really enjoying my blue hammer at 5K. The most consistent ball in the bag which allows me to play in my comfort zone which is the track to outside area. Other balls in my bag pushes me left quickly, or I start the night inside the track. I've done well playing inside, but I'm not as comfortable as I am with straighter lines. Playing inside, or deep inside, is relatively new to me as my game developed over the last 2-3 years.

Anyway, since I like the blue hammer I thought about the Black Hammer. I was wondering if the black hammer can handle more oil than the blue.? I really don't need the black urethane, but I just like smooth rolling balls.

What 2 urethane balls do you like?
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Gene J Kanak

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Re: Anyone own two urethanes?
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2016, 01:34:01 PM »
I currently bag two urethane balls. I use the Black Hammer urethane (remake) and a Natural Pearl. The Black Hammer is good when the lanes are tighter, and the Natural Pearl is good to go to when the Black starts picking up too early.

bradl

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Re: Anyone own two urethanes?
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2016, 01:39:10 PM »
I currently bag two urethane balls. I use the Black Hammer urethane (remake) and a Natural Pearl. The Black Hammer is good when the lanes are tighter, and the Natural Pearl is good to go to when the Black starts picking up too early.

Beat me to it. It was my understanding that if talking the remakes, the Black would handle more oil than Blue. So with there being 3 urethane Hammers out there, strongest to weakest should be Black - Blue - Purple Pearl*.

* Purple Pearl may actually pick up earlier than the Blue, and that's saying a lot for it being a pearl. Haven't seen a complete comparison between it yet, so that order may change.

BL.

Gene J Kanak

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Re: Anyone own two urethanes?
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2016, 02:48:50 PM »
Is the Blue remake truly urethane though? They call it performance urethane, which immediately makes me think back to what they tried accomplishing with the Pure Hammer line. Look at the differences in the ways that they describe the three remakes:

"The Blue Hammer is an iconic throwback in performance ball technology. By combining a re-engineered Vibe core shape with our new Performance Urethane coverstock, we’re introducing a ball that rolls like the old-school balls without actually being old-school stuff. This new spin on older ball motion brings the control of yesterday’s balls and the performance of today to the lane for Hammer!"

Notice how they say rolls like old school without being old school. Now, here's the description of the Black:

"There isn’t a person on this planet that will argue against the fact that Hammer made the best urethane bowling balls back in the day. There is no doubt in our minds bowlers looking for the ball reaction that dominated the 80’s and early 90’s will find it in our new Black Urethane! This is ball is 100% real urethane and offers that true urethane reaction. 15# and 16# balls feature a thick shell. 14# balls use an outer core system."

If the Blue Hammer was the same, why didn't they play up on the 100% pure urethane concept there? They continued playing up on the "thick-shelled urethane" wording with the purple:

"Our Urethane cover is the main ingredient in this masterpiece. Unlike modern covers that produce a violent reaction at the breakpoint, this proven staple is all about giving the user ultimate control of the entire lane. The immediate success of our real, thick shelled Black Urethane had our fans begging for more! To satisfy their desires, we have developed the perfect pearlized, thick shelled coverstock to compliment the Black Urethane. Old school technology with new school hitting power. Because nothing hits like a Hammer."

Maybe I'm just looking too closely, but I find the differences in wording and focus curious.

avabob

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Re: Anyone own two urethanes?
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2016, 02:54:19 PM »
I have been a proponent of having urethane in my bag for some time.   However whe I lo9k at the overall limitations of urethane I dont thinka second that would handle more oil is worthwhile.  My reasoning is thatyou can finish a shell as aggressive as you want and it will still be susceptible to long oil or carrydown.  There are resin balls out there that will allow you to still play closer to the oil line when rhe blue hammer wont react.  Its all about carry.

bradl

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Re: Anyone own two urethanes?
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2016, 03:15:44 PM »
Is the Blue remake truly urethane though? They call it performance urethane, which immediately makes me think back to what they tried accomplishing with the Pure Hammer line. Look at the differences in the ways that they describe the three remakes:

"The Blue Hammer is an iconic throwback in performance ball technology. By combining a re-engineered Vibe core shape with our new Performance Urethane coverstock, we’re introducing a ball that rolls like the old-school balls without actually being old-school stuff. This new spin on older ball motion brings the control of yesterday’s balls and the performance of today to the lane for Hammer!"

Notice how they say rolls like old school without being old school. Now, here's the description of the Black:

"There isn’t a person on this planet that will argue against the fact that Hammer made the best urethane bowling balls back in the day. There is no doubt in our minds bowlers looking for the ball reaction that dominated the 80’s and early 90’s will find it in our new Black Urethane! This is ball is 100% real urethane and offers that true urethane reaction. 15# and 16# balls feature a thick shell. 14# balls use an outer core system."

If the Blue Hammer was the same, why didn't they play up on the 100% pure urethane concept there? They continued playing up on the "thick-shelled urethane" wording with the purple:

"Our Urethane cover is the main ingredient in this masterpiece. Unlike modern covers that produce a violent reaction at the breakpoint, this proven staple is all about giving the user ultimate control of the entire lane. The immediate success of our real, thick shelled Black Urethane had our fans begging for more! To satisfy their desires, we have developed the perfect pearlized, thick shelled coverstock to compliment the Black Urethane. Old school technology with new school hitting power. Because nothing hits like a Hammer."

Maybe I'm just looking too closely, but I find the differences in wording and focus curious.

you're right on this; I don't believe the Blue remake was a totally true urethane, as it was mainly to compliment the performance Burgundy Hammer that came out shortly after.

BL.

charlest

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Re: Anyone own two urethanes?
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2016, 03:40:58 PM »
Is the Blue remake truly urethane though? They call it performance urethane, which immediately makes me think back to what they tried accomplishing with the Pure Hammer line. Look at the differences in the ways that they describe the three remakes:

"The Blue Hammer is an iconic throwback in performance ball technology. By combining a re-engineered Vibe core shape with our new Performance Urethane coverstock, we’re introducing a ball that rolls like the old-school balls without actually being old-school stuff. This new spin on older ball motion brings the control of yesterday’s balls and the performance of today to the lane for Hammer!"

Notice how they say rolls like old school without being old school. Now, here's the description of the Black:

"There isn’t a person on this planet that will argue against the fact that Hammer made the best urethane bowling balls back in the day. There is no doubt in our minds bowlers looking for the ball reaction that dominated the 80’s and early 90’s will find it in our new Black Urethane! This is ball is 100% real urethane and offers that true urethane reaction. 15# and 16# balls feature a thick shell. 14# balls use an outer core system."

If the Blue Hammer was the same, why didn't they play up on the 100% pure urethane concept there? They continued playing up on the "thick-shelled urethane" wording with the purple:

"Our Urethane cover is the main ingredient in this masterpiece. Unlike modern covers that produce a violent reaction at the breakpoint, this proven staple is all about giving the user ultimate control of the entire lane. The immediate success of our real, thick shelled Black Urethane had our fans begging for more! To satisfy their desires, we have developed the perfect pearlized, thick shelled coverstock to compliment the Black Urethane. Old school technology with new school hitting power. Because nothing hits like a Hammer."

Maybe I'm just looking too closely, but I find the differences in wording and focus curious.


I've said this before: The Blue Hammer is a blend of urethane and resin. No true "full-blooded" urethane, in my experience, gets thru the heads this easily nor does a true urethane adjust this easily to abrasives. Yet its backend is about 80% urethane and 20% resin.  It is a step down in oil handling than the weakest resins I have used and and tried in the last 15 years, at least. It is even a full step down in oil handling and hook than my Blue/Green Centaur and that's saying a lot.

I think if Hammer had advertised it as being "true urethane" they could have bene sued for false advertising.

That said, Gene, I suspect someone with your ball speed might never be able to take advantage of such a weak ball or let's just say you will have darn few times in your tournament career for a chance to use one properly. It better used by low speed, higher rev bowlers like myself and Jay.
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2handedrook12

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Re: Anyone own two urethanes?
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2016, 08:46:44 PM »
I'm testing a bunch of old school urethane balls for different purposes. I have a 6 inch pin to pap pin down Pitch Black and a Bud II that I really enjoy. They come with me to high friction environments or short patterns.

In response to Charlest, does the Blue Hammer carry well? If I can have the same smooth backened but more length (to my Pitch Black), I will be a very happy man.
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BackToBasics

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Re: Anyone own two urethanes?
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2016, 09:00:35 PM »
This is a good thread. I've been using a Blue the past few weeks and I'm averaging 250 with it the 3rd game. I've been using a Burgundy Remake  the first 2 games but the Blue allows me to stay right and shut down my angles. Can I get left and have the whole lane with resin?  Yeah but I like playing straighter angles and not worrying about moving every 3 frames.  Carry hasn't been an issue.  The key is to know the correct move when you flat 10.  Last night I went flat 10, flat 10, bumped 1-1 right and when sheet for 260.

The Blue may not be true urethane but it's as close as I've seen before the current generation. It's easily 10 weaker than the Burgundy for me.   I'm really debating getting a Black for the first two games.  Really tired of chasing the shot the first 2 games.

MTbowler

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Re: Anyone own two urethanes?
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2016, 05:08:57 PM »
xrayjay  -  how do you have your blue hammer laid out? I just bought one for a friend who also enjoys playing outside the track but hasn't been able to with the weakest of resin balls. I am hoping this ball will allow him to play in his comfort zone (straighter up the lane). He has slower ball speed with low-lowish revs and often struggles with over/under reaction when others with more speed/revs don't.

Thank you!

xrayjay

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Re: Anyone own two urethanes?
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2016, 07:05:25 PM »
xrayjay  -  how do you have your blue hammer laid out? I just bought one for a friend who also enjoys playing outside the track but hasn't been able to with the weakest of resin balls. I am hoping this ball will allow him to play in his comfort zone (straighter up the lane). He has slower ball speed with low-lowish revs and often struggles with over/under reaction when others with more speed/revs don't.

Thank you!

All my "league" balls all have the same layout. 4x4x2 without or with a P3 hole. I also have the cover at 5000K.

The THS length I bowl on is (last time I checked) about 37'. Rarely can I play outside for the ball will check up real early for me. I have a ball speed of 16.5 down lane and this seems to be the norm playing the track. As the track burns up, some times I find myself migrating to the left.

the ball I have better success with playing outside, or has longer length than the blue is my breeze. The ball has a longer pin to pap layout (pin above bridge cg 1" right from center line) and the cover has a higher grit wit polish. The breeze seems to better fit the "second arrow" shot or up 5 board.

With his speed and rev rate, maybe the guys here can offer a better solution than the blue. But, the blue may just work for him if the conditions are right.
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Gene J Kanak

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Re: Anyone own two urethanes?
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2016, 10:15:41 AM »
Is the Blue remake truly urethane though? They call it performance urethane, which immediately makes me think back to what they tried accomplishing with the Pure Hammer line. Look at the differences in the ways that they describe the three remakes:

"The Blue Hammer is an iconic throwback in performance ball technology. By combining a re-engineered Vibe core shape with our new Performance Urethane coverstock, we’re introducing a ball that rolls like the old-school balls without actually being old-school stuff. This new spin on older ball motion brings the control of yesterday’s balls and the performance of today to the lane for Hammer!"

Notice how they say rolls like old school without being old school. Now, here's the description of the Black:

"There isn’t a person on this planet that will argue against the fact that Hammer made the best urethane bowling balls back in the day. There is no doubt in our minds bowlers looking for the ball reaction that dominated the 80’s and early 90’s will find it in our new Black Urethane! This is ball is 100% real urethane and offers that true urethane reaction. 15# and 16# balls feature a thick shell. 14# balls use an outer core system."

If the Blue Hammer was the same, why didn't they play up on the 100% pure urethane concept there? They continued playing up on the "thick-shelled urethane" wording with the purple:

"Our Urethane cover is the main ingredient in this masterpiece. Unlike modern covers that produce a violent reaction at the breakpoint, this proven staple is all about giving the user ultimate control of the entire lane. The immediate success of our real, thick shelled Black Urethane had our fans begging for more! To satisfy their desires, we have developed the perfect pearlized, thick shelled coverstock to compliment the Black Urethane. Old school technology with new school hitting power. Because nothing hits like a Hammer."

Maybe I'm just looking too closely, but I find the differences in wording and focus curious.


I've said this before: The Blue Hammer is a blend of urethane and resin. No true "full-blooded" urethane, in my experience, gets thru the heads this easily nor does a true urethane adjust this easily to abrasives. Yet its backend is about 80% urethane and 20% resin.  It is a step down in oil handling than the weakest resins I have used and and tried in the last 15 years, at least. It is even a full step down in oil handling and hook than my Blue/Green Centaur and that's saying a lot.

I think if Hammer had advertised it as being "true urethane" they could have bene sued for false advertising.

That said, Gene, I suspect someone with your ball speed might never be able to take advantage of such a weak ball or let's just say you will have darn few times in your tournament career for a chance to use one properly. It better used by low speed, higher rev bowlers like myself and Jay.

I think you're right, Charlest. My biggest issue with the weaker pieces is getting them to slow down enough. I finally like what I'm seeing out of my Fanatic BTU at 500 grit, but even that still likes to flip like a banshee when/if it sees friction too soon.

MTbowler

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Re: Anyone own two urethanes?
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2016, 11:56:24 AM »


All my "league" balls all have the same layout. 4x4x2 without or with a P3 hole. I also have the cover at 5000K.

The THS length I bowl on is (last time I checked) about 37'. Rarely can I play outside for the ball will check up real early for me. I have a ball speed of 16.5 down lane and this seems to be the norm playing the track. As the track burns up, some times I find myself migrating to the left.

the ball I have better success with playing outside, or has longer length than the blue is my breeze. The ball has a longer pin to pap layout (pin above bridge cg 1" right from center line) and the cover has a higher grit wit polish. The breeze seems to better fit the "second arrow" shot or up 5 board.

With his speed and rev rate, maybe the guys here can offer a better solution than the blue. But, the blue may just work for him if the conditions are right.
[/quote]

Thank you xrayjay! My friend also has the breeze. We have tried a couple different layouts without much success. Although, we have not used a layout similar to the one on your breeze. I was thinking a similar layout on the blue would work well. A longer pin to PAP distance, with cg just off of center. The house we bowl at has newer synthetics and a flood of oil in the middle, with not much on the outside. If you get it out too early, hooks through the face everytime. We will probably try to polish the blue as well to help it get down the lane further before making its move.


Necromancer

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Re: Anyone own two urethanes?
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2016, 12:33:26 PM »
I'm really enjoying my blue hammer at 5K. The most consistent ball in the bag which allows me to play in my comfort zone which is the track to outside area. Other balls in my bag pushes me left quickly, or I start the night inside the track. I've done well playing inside, but I'm not as comfortable as I am with straighter lines. Playing inside, or deep inside, is relatively new to me as my game developed over the last 2-3 years.

Anyway, since I like the blue hammer I thought about the Black Hammer. I was wondering if the black hammer can handle more oil than the blue.? I really don't need the black urethane, but I just like smooth rolling balls.

What 2 urethane balls do you like?
Can't wait for my Pitch Black to arrive for the reason you stated in your second sentence.  I tried to play inside and swing the ball out.  But if people want to cheese in my league with their 220 averages by play up 10, so can I.  And I can put a lot more revs and speed behind the ball too.  If people thought they saw it all, they will be shocked when they see 450-500 series go to 650+ next month.  Reactive resin doesn't work on today's conditions IMO (at least THS).
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Steven

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Re: Anyone own two urethanes?
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2016, 12:38:39 PM »
Reactive resin doesn't work on today's conditions IMO (at least THS).

Why not??