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Author Topic: Dam Dirty Sandbaggers!!!  (Read 1077 times)

SirAshley

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Dam Dirty Sandbaggers!!!
« on: December 25, 2007, 02:21:48 AM »
Alright, here's one for you... The ultimate low-ball way to sandbag, and three teams did it this year. That's right... THREE FULL TEAMS...  Here's how they did it, they joined the league at my bowling alley, which has the hardest shot around. They bowled three weeks and established there, then quit the league, and joined a league at the neighboring bowling alley which has the easiest shot in Florida. They were able to bring their established averages with them. Their averages are 20 pins higher at the easier bouse, but instead of taking their yearbook from there, they can take their established average at the harder house. I'm sorry, but that is dirty, and if these teams show up next year, which I have been told they have done for the past three years, on our league, I'm going to make some type of motion to block them from bowling on our league just to establish and then move. What would you guys do???
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scotts33

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Re: Dam Dirty Sandbaggers!!!
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2007, 10:34:26 AM »
How do you establish an average with ONLY 9 games?  Any league or tournament I know take high book average anyway from the previous year or high average established this year if new bowler.  I don't get your point unless it's some weird league rule that uses this 9 game average.
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Scott

SirAshley

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Re: Dam Dirty Sandbaggers!!!
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2007, 10:35:53 AM »
In the league that they move to, they can take the 9 game average they established with at the more difficult house over their yearbook average, according to that leagues rules.. So they come in with averages at least 20 pins lower than their yearbook
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Hogsharley

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Re: Dam Dirty Sandbaggers!!!
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2007, 11:28:27 AM »
Alright, they found a loophole because of your stupid league rule. Just make sure that the rule is voted to be changed for next year. The other way around it right now is to re-rate them with your newly established re-rate committee.
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snowman4951

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Re: Dam Dirty Sandbaggers!!!
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2007, 01:54:46 PM »
I was burned once in a doubles tourney from Sandbaggers...Never Ever Again...I got better and will only bowl in scratch leagues and tourney's. Have a happy ,safe , holiday(s)
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abrown

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Re: Dam Dirty Sandbaggers!!!
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2007, 02:12:00 PM »
make a point with the association to place in the bylaws that a person must have 40 games in kinda like the hoinke does if they dont ya bowl scratch you can also file with the league to block bowlers who quite without a good reason.
ive ran into people who will sub for 18 games then never show back up do to there averages, but never ran into people like that

sdbowler

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Re: Dam Dirty Sandbaggers!!!
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2007, 02:13:17 PM »
I use to bowl in a league that started off the new season by using your average from league from the season prior or use your high book average for the first 3 weeks. That way it prevents this from going on. It made the start of the season intersting. You had to start out on fire if you wanted to win your points.
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shelley

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Re: Dam Dirty Sandbaggers!!!
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2007, 07:28:41 PM »
It sucks, it's lousy and low-down.  But frankly, it's that league's problem.  If they allow that to continue then they must not have a problem with it.  If it bothers the league in the easier house, if people there are complaining about their average manipulation, then they need to address that issue at their league meeting for next season.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning what they're doing.  Like I said, it's low-down, it's bad sportsmanship even if it's technically legal.  The league needs to fix that loophole explicitly.  If you have an average from the league from last season, you must use it.  If not, then you may use last year's book average.  If not (probably only for new bowlers or those who took time off), then a current league average of N games.  

Alternatively, they could increase the number of games required from 9 to 21.  They'd have to miss seven weeks of the league in that case and that might discourage them from coming in late.

There is a rule, I can't remember the number, that addresses unfair tactics.  It's the only real rule against sandbagging and isn't worded in such a way as to make it easy to kick people for it.  Naturally, the trick is proving intent and only the most egregious cases are doable.  If they don't want to change their league rules (they'll likely lose those teams, though maybe if others find out they're cracking down on sandbaggers they'll take their place), they could try to beat them across the head with the unfair tactics rules.

SH

Edited on 12/25/2007 8:33 PM

another300

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Re: Dam Dirty Sandbaggers!!!
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2007, 07:55:21 AM »
quote:
Unfortunately, this works both ways. I am currently sitting in second place at the Hoinke doubles this year (the tournament is over, the final results just pending verification of averages). The team that edged us in the final week did so by five pins. I came to learn that this doubles team from North Carolina was getting 260 pins handicap, meaning we beat them by over 200 pins scratch.

Being a bit curious about the handicap team that beat us, I did a little research on one of the guys posted on the leader board. The Hoinke Tournament only accepts averages of 42 games or more, and they don't recognize averages established in summer leagues, even if USBC sanctioned. Follow this link and look at one of the two bowler's average history. His Hoinke tournament entering average is 168. I'll let you be the judge on weather this is legitimate.

http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=1717&suffix=614

Also notice the award score, which I may say is quite impressive for a 168 bowler. Another impressive note: he finished in 2nd place in the 2005 Las Vegas mini-eliminator (a scratch tournament!) for $15,000.

Unless he slipped up and can be average-adjusted based on some specific tournament rule, he is going to get away with the $30,000 first place Hoinke doubles prize. Unfortunately, as long as people are allowed to go about their business in the sanctioned leagues they participate in, there are always going to be people finding ways to get around rules to give themselves an unfair competitive advantage.

 


What a low life scumbag. This Randolph guy is more than capable of averaging well over 200.  He makes sure he doesn't bowl over the 21 games in the league he is averaging 225.  The year before that he averaged 224 for 13 games.
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rexb300

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Re: Dam Dirty Sandbaggers!!!
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2007, 08:16:28 AM »
if they have come and did this before
I wouldnot let them do it again
they would have to pay for two weeks after
quiting or have USBC pull there cards.
check rulebook on leaving a quiting a league.

J Harlan

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Re: Dam Dirty Sandbaggers!!!
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2007, 09:00:50 AM »
Most leagues I've bowled in make you use last year's highest book avg for the first several weeks of league.  Scores in any other league do not count - it's last years book until you reset with scores bowled in this particular league.  I think that's the route you should go.  At least make them bag in your league and lose points the first 5 weeks or so if they want to try cheating.

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O

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Re: Dam Dirty Sandbaggers!!!
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2007, 09:33:46 AM »
Sorry, I did not mean to attempt a hi-jacking of this thread, so I deleted my original post and created a separate topic with "Hoinke" in the subject...

quote:

What a low life scumbag. This Randolph guy is more than capable of averaging well over 200.  He makes sure he doesn't bowl over the 21 games in the league he is averaging 225.  The year before that he averaged 224 for 13 games.
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