Author Topic: Are bowling owners going down the right path? (Read 4529 times)

MSC2471 · « **on:** August 15, 2004, 01:59:47 AM »

I was talking with the owner of my fall league house in Winchendon, MA and he spoke about the troubles of getting a consistent draw of people to go bowling. He believes that it is best to go with mini-leagues and open bowling to try to gain more business, and that longer leagues are the wave of the past and don't work as well in 2004. I try to counter with him that I think you need both mini-leagues and long format leagues, as there are a lot of older bowlers who are willing to commit to 8 and 9 month long seasons, all you have to do is get out there and promote yourself. The days of a bowling center just putting out a sign and people coming in like they did 20 and 30 years ago are long gone.

I do like one of the ideas he put forth for a mini-league. He developed a 19 week "Survivor" league that will work on a lot of the same principles as the telvision show. People will be voted out of the league if they lose team games, and eventually there will be one winner. People will also compete for immunity challenges and get special prizes that have been donated from the community if they win these challenges. The eventual winner of the league will get $1,300. And the handicap for each person is based on 100% of 210.

What do you think of your home center(s) and are they going about business the right way to keep a healthy base of new and familiar customers happy?

Matt

hotwire13 · « **Reply #16 on:** August 17, 2004, 04:25:34 PM »

i am from staten island, ny...where we now have 2 houses as compared to 12+ not even 10 years ago. the reason?...because everyone now bowls in new jersey, because of better centers and CHEAPER PRICES. I dont even bother going to any of the "admission fee/$.25 a game" events anymore because the wait is ridiculous and its packed beyond belief. on staten island, while i wont say that its completely empty, it isnt an hour and a half wait on friday and saturday nights to get a lane like it is where the rates are cheaper. there is absolutely nothing disadvantagoeus about giving huge discounts on bowling...rental shoes, the lanes not needing to be reoiled, and the concessions/arcade are bringing in money without costing the center a dime except for running the lanes. even if it was to bring in the same exact revenue that would result from no discounts at all, the idea of being constantly packed would result in more faces experiencing the atmosphere and things to do in the center, and could result in more visits/league memberships in the future.
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RED STRIPE

ITS BEER
HOORAY BEER!

guzmand19 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 17, 2004, 04:35:30 PM »

Now I totally agree that run down centers cannot just throw out cheap rates and hope all will go well. This is usually the "jumping the shark" or the kiss of death.

BTW, I didn't include shoe cost for the second portion of my post because I wasn;t exactly sure of the cost. The point was to show that the cover charge usually at least keeps the regular house rate close. What will bring people to bowling alleys is a very clean, well lit facility. Too many bowling alleys got used to the dark dingy appearance of the 70's, and the air was just disgusting. I watched a house transform from one of these to a very nice, clean and kinda kidsy appearance and the business is doing very well. I've also seen the houses which refuse to improve, and thus end up closing eventually. The house that chose to improve, uses a Wednesday night summer Quartermania program and unless you get there when it starts, or much later, have fun getting a lane. The place is packed, and usually as much as 6 people per lane. That cheap price may get them in the door, but the quality of the house and the appearance keep them coming back.

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D <~~~~ Used to be terrible wiffing 10 pins. Now through much practice, can wiff any single pin spare at any time.

Darrell Guzman
guzmand19 - Yahoo IM and MSN screen names

DavidKSNK · « **Reply #18 on:** August 17, 2004, 04:42:47 PM »

Just would like to point out to those who mentioned snack shops bringing in more money for the center is not entirely true in all cases. I obviously don't know how the rest of the country works, I've only bowled in Michigan outside of New Jersey. But the Nationwide run centers in NJ rent out space for the snack shop so basically the only money they make is off the rent payments. The snack shop proprietors make out like a bandit.
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Somewhere in the far distant future Lane #1's slogan will be..."Lane #1, out-carrying Storm for over 50 years!"

MichiganBowling · « **Reply #19 on:** August 17, 2004, 04:59:57 PM »

Hotwire, I think your location certainly answers a lot of my questions. My living in Michigan and yours in N.Y., we probably both live in two of the extreme situations for certain. So it's hard to compare. Thanks a bunch for the info!!! It's interesting to see how bowling exists in different areas, especially other extreme areas like N.Y.

Darrell, I guess Detroit is just such a cut throat market, they probably have to do the quartermania to keep up. And because that center is a clean and well lit center, they are doing ok NOT because of quartermania, but because they get the league bowlers and weekend bowlers when they charge more. Tell me if I'm wrong.

You are actually supporting my argument here Darrell. Look at Metro Detroit, and watch how many centers close down every year. At least one or two seem to close down every year. I look at Lansing where they have 2 centers for sure that charge a high price for bowling, and their weekends have waiting lists every weekend during the season. Holiday Lanes charges either $4 or $4.50 per game, and they always have a waiting list. Centers closing down means bowlers quitting means bad for the sport. If a center hasn't already modernized, they cannot afford to do it now and then run quartermania. If they've modernized already in the last 2-5 years, then they can get away with it because they didn't lose their bowlers yet.

Metro Detroit centers cannot charge these high prices too often because there's always somebody around the corner that will run quartermania to undercut them. But take a look at Pampa Lanes in Warren. They charge high rent on the weekends and the place is packed!!! They do so by simply creating the atmosphere that draws the young crowds their way.

Again, Metro Detroit is an extreme situation and very complex as is N.Y. I am basing my statements on what I've seen executed in some of the smaller markets like Lansing, Bay City, Flint, Kalamazoo, Jackson, and so on.

My main point was this--people get used to paying a certain price, and then they won't pay the normal prices or will complain like crazy when you take away the quartermania to keep up with inflation. While it's nice for us bowlers to be able to go and bowl for super cheap, it's not necessarily the best thing for the sport or the industry. When the sport and industry suffer, we the bowlers suffer too.
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Brian
MichiganBowling.com
http://www.MichiganBowling.com

Famous Last Words of a Pot Bowler--"Ok, but this is my last game!"

Cbjdc · « **Reply #20 on:** August 17, 2004, 05:29:14 PM »

I have to say that the age of keeping a league in for 36 weeks is very tough. If you look at the bowling industry as a whole not many want to come into a bowling center for competion. While there are leagues out there that many people love to join many people arent as competitive as they used too. Watch your youth leagues for instance,(This is not an insult here), but due to the soccer mom mentality that everything has to be fair competition for kids has gone down the drain. Kids who are better get talked about and run off from leagues just b.c they are good. While kids who are losing to these bowlers complain and whine and instead of working at something they just quite and dont try.
The same goes for adult leagues. I have seen guys who can barely break 170 avg going against guys who are 200 or better in handicap leagues. But when it comes to figuring out prize funds and all they vote for the one that pays the most to the bottom of the league. Thus causing the better bowlers to look for higher paying leagues.
The problem overall is that one is that there isnt money in league bowling so the better bowlers decide to leave seeking money else where. This in turn causes the moderate bowlers who look for these bowlers to improve their game to listen to almost anything that they say causing a shift. The second problem is that people want something for nothing. The bowling center I work in hasnt raised prices in almost six years. We recently raised them a qtr and you thought we were ripping people off. Yet a facility not more then ten miles away will charge people almost three dollars more for bowling and people pay it. Finally you have to look at who comprises these leagues. You have three types. The first are the competitve leagues (high avg bowlers who are looking o improve their games), second the social league( moderate bowlers who are advancing their bowling but rather have a good time then anything else), and finally the drinking league (you get these every year where a group of teams take forever to bowl and by the end of the night they have a pile of cups where they have guzzled acholic beverage all night). This is the problem mostly, not totatlly, if you look at it its good that they contribute to the business, however, look at wha they cause in return. A normal league night is roughly 2 to 2.5 hours long. Drinking leagues go as far as 3 hours or sometimes longer. You can eighteen holes of golf faster sometimes then to bowl league. People dont want this. So eventually you lose teams. As for a solution I cant come up with one but if you have ideas tell me. I am glad to listen. ALSO I POSE THESE QUESTIONS AND ANY HAVE IDEAS LET ME KNOW.
1. WHAT DO YOU THINK OF A SMOKING BAN IN PUBLIC PLACES I.E BOWLING CENTER? WILL IT HELP OR HINDER?
2. LEAGUES DO YOU THINK ITS WRONG FOR LEAGUES TO RUN THREE OR MORE HOURS OR SHOULD THERE BE A TIME LIMIT? I.E GIVE A LEAGUE X AMOUNT OF HOURS AND IF YOU ARE DONE BEFORE YOU CAN USE IT AS FREE BOWLING, IF NOT THEN YOU ARE DONE AND YOU GET ZEREOS FOR THE REMAINING FRAMES.
3. WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE USBC WILL IT HELP OR HURT BOWLING? ALSO WHAT HAPPENS NOW WHEN YOU SANCTION DO WOMEN BECOME ELIGIBLE FOR ABC NATIONALS NOW SINCE WE ARE UNDER THE SAME BODY OR IS IT SEPERATE AT THAT LEVEL?
4. WHAT IS A RESONABLE PRICE FOR BOWLING? SPECIALS (ANY IDEAS ON THEM)? AND PRICES FOR LEAGUE BOWLERS

JUST A THOUGHT

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #21 on:** August 17, 2004, 05:32:01 PM »

Didn't know it was called QUARTERAMA! I went bowling SUNDAY in the closest AMF house. I paid $4 initial fee and then $1 a game. Bowled 12 games. Don't know how much shoe rental was .. the house was PACKED! I don't feel there would be that many bowlers bowling if the price was $3.50 a game. I've been saying for a long time that COST is what's killing bowling .. looks like it's finally getting to the right ears!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O

Hammer3003 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 17, 2004, 05:35:23 PM »

That dude is a complete moron. League bowling keeps a consistant money flow. Not only do you get there league fee's but you get people who will spend money at the dinners etc.

Sounds like he has a hard time keeping bowlers happy. He/she I think is a bad owner
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Bowl To Win!!!

Juggernaut · « **Reply #23 on:** August 17, 2004, 05:42:50 PM »

Oddly enough, our center owner REQUIRES a 36 week commitement from the leagues or he won't let them bowl in his center.

He claims that he makes such a larger profit margin on open play and glow bowling that he doesn't need leagues unless they guarantee him a long period of play.

Sounds very juxtaposed to what most of you guys are saying, but it's the truth. He told us, as we were trying to vote in a 32 week schedule, that if we did not guarantee him 36 weeks we could just take our league and go elsewhere.

Being 35 miles to the next nearest center, he got his wish.
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Just call me Darreyl, it's much easier to say!

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #24 on:** August 17, 2004, 05:49:10 PM »

JAB .. good for you and the league .. that's the way LEAGUES should stick together!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O

hotwire13 · « **Reply #25 on:** August 17, 2004, 05:56:21 PM »

quote:
Didn't know it was called QUARTERAMA! I went bowling SUNDAY in the closest AMF house. I paid $4 initial fee and then $1 a game. Bowled 12 games. Don't know how much shoe rental was .. the house was PACKED! I don't feel there would be that many bowlers bowling if the price was $3.50 a game. I've been saying for a long time that COST is what's killing bowling .. looks like it's finally getting to the right ears!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O

AMEN Joe...AMEN.

This is exactly what ive been saying, and it seems like some people dont understand that the extreme prices are whats really hurting bowling. IMHO, leagues would not be suffering as much as they seem to be right now if practicing in a low-cost, league condition environment was easier than it is. very few of the centers i know of, and i have bolwed at 40+ in the last year, make this type of environment easily accessible during open play. now i know that these quartermania type things dont provide similar conditions to league bowling, but how many league bowlers out there can afford to keep up their game paying $4.00+ per game to practice, in addition to weekly league expenses?...this is why pots during leagues have diminished, and the overall interest seems to have dissipated.

HERES AN IDEA: I would love to see centers start doing something like gyms do...charge bowlers an annual membership fee...maybe $50.00 per bowler...give them a membership card, and give them $1.00 a game anytime during the year...guaranteed money for the center, and an eventual discount for the bowler(figure you practice once per week, 3 games each time, thats 156 games, which is $50+$156=$206, rather than a $3.00 rate that more than likely would keep the bowler from even practicing). and tiered memberships would be even better, with different annual fees resulting in corresponding per game prices. if you can attract the league bowler and maintain their interest in the center, they will help keep the center alive, and all the extra events like quartermania will only make the centers revenue even better. i think poor marketing is part of the problem...special discounts like these are the types of GOOD marketing bowling needs.
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RED STRIPE

ITS BEER
HOORAY BEER!

ThongPrincess · « **Reply #26 on:** August 17, 2004, 06:21:31 PM »

Just a side note on the Quartermania, the times I have been in the center during this event about 1/2 of the bowlers are also league bowlers. The normal cost for league bowlers is $1.75/game. If they bowl at least 5 games, it is cheaper than the league rate. Yes it is only a $0.25 savings, but add another $1.25 saved per game and it is a better deal for practice.

There are also bowlers who went into the Newcomers League from bowling Quartermania. It is an inexpensive way to get people into the centers and, while all may not become league /tournament bowlers, some will become hooked like we have.
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Age is only a state of mind. I lost mine years ago, I will always be young

Author Topic: Are bowling owners going down the right path? (Read 4529 times)

MSC2471

Are bowling owners going down the right path?

hotwire13

Re: Are bowling owners going down the right path?

guzmand19

Re: Are bowling owners going down the right path?

DavidKSNK

Re: Are bowling owners going down the right path?

MichiganBowling

Re: Are bowling owners going down the right path?

Cbjdc

Re: Are bowling owners going down the right path?

JOE FALCO

Re: Are bowling owners going down the right path?

Hammer3003

Re: Are bowling owners going down the right path?

Juggernaut

Re: Are bowling owners going down the right path?

JOE FALCO

Re: Are bowling owners going down the right path?

hotwire13

Re: Are bowling owners going down the right path?

ThongPrincess

Re: Are bowling owners going down the right path?