Author Topic: Are Coverstocks Too Strong? (Read 4006 times)

n00dlejester · « **on:** August 13, 2009, 01:19:28 PM »

Alright, I pose this question as a generalization of bowling balls on the market today to the lane conditions 90% of bowlers see (THS and the occasional tighter tournament shot).

Most of the upper echelon of bowling balls are sick nasty strong. Most league bowlers that I hang out with get these, and end up hating them. Before long, most of these same bowlers wind up with a mid to "entry" level resin ball. Hy-Roads, the Mars, Rattlers/Pythons, the Avalanches are all pretty hot bowling balls and work well in most bowlers hands. These weaker balls generally have weaker covers - so thus my question, are coverstocks too strong? I would love to see a stronger core with a weaker cover...in fact, I'd love to see a NIB X-Factor and see how well it does on conditions today.

/ramblings of a bowler
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Proud Supporter of Rob Stone
Obviously, you aren''t a golfer.
Some stayed in the foothills, some washed logs like teeth.

six pack · « **Reply #1 on:** August 13, 2009, 09:29:03 PM »

IMO,the mid level stuff is as strong as the top shelf stuff.the cores are just a little older.but in general,yes I agree the covers are too strong most of the time.most of the time I do better with my black hammer then anything else but how boreing is that?no matter what I bring to league you can bet I brought some kind of urethane ball along for the ride.
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The harder I try the harder they fall

HamPster · « **Reply #2 on:** August 13, 2009, 09:45:48 PM »

I have an X-Factor and it still holds its own pretty darn well.
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This is Fluffy. He is the Destroyer of Worlds.

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 13, 2009, 10:09:27 PM »

Most of the cores really haven't changed much other then names and looks. The numbers haven't change as far as RG and diff that much since the x-factor was released.

The covers of older equipment holds up pretty good to todays standards. I recently drilled a Sea Wolf and it rolls just like it looked years ago. It wasn't designed as a big hook the whole lane ball, but as a solid reactive that acts like a pearl. It rolls really well.

If you look at the avalanche and Groove series that use the power coil cover stock from years past you get a little glimpse of how those covers do in weak core balls. If you put that cover on a Inferno or Fury core I bet it would roll very strong.

I prefer the mid line equipment as well. Mort versatile on more lane conditions.

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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #4 on:** August 13, 2009, 10:11:43 PM »

I think you are exactly right.

If the ball companies would take a step or 2 back and go back to some of the tamer cores there would be a lot of happy bowlers out there.

Personally I think Ebonite has done this originally with the Ice/Crossfire/Black Ice series.

Then they came out with the Smash/ Bash/ Boom/ Clash...again older cores and covers that are not over-reactive.

I like the idea.....but then too I am the guy who still uses an original AZO Armageddon and a reactive Ultimate Weapon :-)
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
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Juggernaut · « **Reply #5 on:** August 13, 2009, 10:14:47 PM »

Your damn skippy covers are too strong, WAY too strong. To get something, you have to give something in return. In order to make covers as strong as they are today, we have given up durability and longevity.
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Doug Sterner · « **Reply #6 on:** August 13, 2009, 10:19:26 PM »

As I sit here and think about it, how would this be controlled?

Suppose the USBC wanted to control the coverstock strength of the bowling ball. How would they go about it? What would they govern?

Surface texture?
Porosity?
Hardness?
Elasticity?
Stiffness?

Any ideas?
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Lane 1 Buzzsaw...The Official Power Tool Of Bowling
For Real Time Interactive Bowling Conversation:
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Juggernaut · « **Reply #7 on:** August 13, 2009, 10:26:57 PM »

quote:
As I sit here and think about it, how would this be controlled?

Suppose the USBC wanted to control the coverstock strength of the bowling ball. How would they go about it? What would they govern?

Surface texture?
Porosity?
Hardness?
Elasticity?
Stiffness?

Any ideas?
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Lane 1 Buzzsaw...The Official Power Tool Of Bowling
For Real Time Interactive Bowling Conversation:
BowlingChat.net

Doug,

I don't think there is any ONE factor that they could govern and achieve the intended purpose. I believe they would have to set an upper limit for total frictional qualities at a much lower level than currently acceptable, REGARDLESS of how those qualities were attained.

I.E., no ball could produce over X (X=arbitrary amount) friction rating, whether it be by particle, texture, softness, porosity, or any combination of these. That way, no manufacturer could come up with a way around the upper limits with any new coverstock, no matter what it was.
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Good transactions list in my profile

"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

Edited on 8/13/2009 10:29 PM

Rileybowler · « **Reply #8 on:** August 13, 2009, 10:47:24 PM »

I think they are and that is exactly why some of the companies have come back out with urethane covers again , in fact I'm seriously thinking of getting one as they have changed the oiling in our house and the pattern breaks down badly before one complete game
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Carl
Bless the LORD o my soul and all that is within me bless his holy name

n00dlejester · « **Reply #9 on:** August 13, 2009, 11:06:13 PM »

The Avalanche series is a good start - older gear just rebranded and it reacts great. I think the last 1.5-2 years of bowling gear, the very long/very strong type reaction has been lost because covers are too strong. Reactions like the Fired Up seem to be non-existent these days - is that because of the covers? The only way I can get it on my newer gear is making it shiny like crazy, and that makes bowling balls waaaaay too over/under.

If there are any bowling ball people out there, please PM me because I would like to just chit chat and perhaps find out ways us (the bowling ball purchasing public) can get involved in the bowling ball R&D process.
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Proud Supporter of Rob Stone
Obviously, you aren't a golfer.
Some stayed in the foothills, some washed logs like teeth.

BrunsMike · « **Reply #10 on:** August 13, 2009, 11:27:54 PM »

This is the main reason why I have not bought anything new in several years. I fully intend bowling another season with my TRoad pearl, rampage, no mercy beatn and awesome finish because these balls react very nicely with the current lane conditions. With the no mercy and awesome finish there about as strong as anything else out on the market I dont have a need for anything new.

So in short, the balls of today are too strong and most of us could be successful with equipment from 10 or 15 years ago.
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Mike Zadler
"When in doubt, Pull out" - Rob Stone
Below, my stats from previous seasons:
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JessN16 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 14, 2009, 02:03:12 AM »

Why do you guys think I have a new post every month or so in the Drilling & Layouts forum about the new wacko drill pattern I'm experimenting with? It's because if you drill anything "normal" anymore you end up with something that can't get out of the fifth frame of the first game on most THS.

I love my Break S75 to death -- it's No. 1 and the X-Factor is No. 2 all-time in my book -- but I have to take my hand almost completely out of the S75 or it will turn around in the middle of the lane and come back to me. And some of you guys have seen me bowl, I'm not a cranker.

What's happening these days more than anything is that we're just breaking down the lanes faster. Tonight at league I had a great look and never had to move for the first game and most of the second. About the seventh frame of game 2, the lanes broke down so quickly that I actually skipped over two steps in my bag and went all the way down to my second-weakest piece. This is the rule and not the exception.

Most of the top-of-the-line coverstocks are necessary if you're bowling PBAX or other Sport leagues, but on THS it's not only overkill but it forces you to make some flat-out crazy moves. This is the reason I've only bought 2-3 true "high end" balls over the last couple of years but I've bought a ton of stuff trying to find the perfect ball for medium-light and less. I finally had to start fixing it with the drill pattern rather than the ball itself.

Jess

makpa · « **Reply #12 on:** August 14, 2009, 02:17:47 AM »

If high end aggressiv stuff sells, then no they are not to aggressiv. But many people buy what the PBA is using. see fx Chris Barnes using Resurgence on cheetah. he understand that all this friction the dull highly aggresiv stuff is doing. He use all this friction to cause early burn and get a more consistent backend. i my self often use a levrg on medium condition, with my high rev rate. also burning out making it more predictable

icewall · « **Reply #13 on:** August 14, 2009, 11:01:40 AM »

I think 90% of bowlers buy stuff that is far too aggressive.

but it sells and some like myself (just this year) couldnt even pull 90% of my balls out of the bag as even my rouge cell at 1500 grit matte wasnt enough at times.... first year EVER that I encountered this much oil at any house.

BUT I do think this is just an attempt to keep these high friction balls at bay and yes they are too strong in MOST situations.
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tournament average: 219

tweener
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StormRoto · « **Reply #14 on:** August 14, 2009, 11:17:45 AM »

I do happen to have an #14 NIB X-Factor for sale with great specs, if anyone is interested.

I would have to say that today's covers are getting to too strong. The lane oil manufacturer's are having a hard time keeping up with oils to compesate the strength of these new covers.
THe pba guys have been throwing a lot of the mid to low range equipment for awhile now. You might see high end stuff here and there with maybe a weaker drilling.

Author Topic: Are Coverstocks Too Strong? (Read 4006 times)

n00dlejester

Are Coverstocks Too Strong?

six pack

Re: Are Coverstocks Too Strong?

HamPster

Re: Are Coverstocks Too Strong?

kidlost2000

Re: Are Coverstocks Too Strong?

Doug Sterner

Re: Are Coverstocks Too Strong?

Juggernaut

Re: Are Coverstocks Too Strong?

Doug Sterner

Re: Are Coverstocks Too Strong?

Juggernaut

Re: Are Coverstocks Too Strong?

Rileybowler

Re: Are Coverstocks Too Strong?

n00dlejester

Re: Are Coverstocks Too Strong?

BrunsMike

Re: Are Coverstocks Too Strong?

JessN16

Re: Are Coverstocks Too Strong?

makpa

Re: Are Coverstocks Too Strong?

icewall

Re: Are Coverstocks Too Strong?

StormRoto

Re: Are Coverstocks Too Strong?