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Author Topic: Are we being robbed of opportunity?  (Read 2821 times)

9andaWiggle

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Are we being robbed of opportunity?
« on: June 15, 2003, 10:15:57 PM »
This weekend I had the pleasure (?) of being very humbled by a tough lane condition.  It was practice, fortunately, and I was able to talk the laneman into putting out a fresh, tougher pattern for me to shoot on.  Now, I am not God's gift to the lanes, but I thought (read that, past tense) THOUGHT I was a decent bowler - after all, I avg. low 190's in 2 houses last year, and am over 200 in my summer league.  Then I hit the lanes.  First, the pattern was one I had never been on, and it was NOT forgiving to anything.  I eventually found where the oil was and wasn't, and even a couple of lines that I could get to the pocket with.  This is where the trouble really begins.  I knew where I needed the ball to be, but couldn't get it there consistently.  I found that being able to hit a 3 board area wasn't nearly good enough.

I'm not crying a river here, although I was getting extremely frustrated with myself and this new knowledge that my avg. is apparently 30 pins exaggerated, but it got me thinking.  Are the bowling centers, in their desire to keep bowlers, cheating us out of the opportunity to actually become better bowlers?  I hated to quit bowling on that shot, because I was learning a lot from it, but eventually I realized that to proceed in my current tired state would be counter-productive.  My point, though, is this: How can we learn to adapt to different conditions and improve our accuracy when we never need to (or have the opportunity to)?  Sorry guys, but the last thing I want to do is spend hundreds of dollars donating to tournaments just for practice on tougher conditions - I feel the opportunity should be there for my practice sessions and league as well.  What is your opinion on this?
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9-

Why, WHY won't the last one just fall??  It's WIGGLING for cryin' out loud!!
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OLI

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Re: Are we being robbed of opportunity?
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2003, 01:31:31 PM »
There are real advantages to know the lane man.  Take the summer as a opportunity to learn.  See what centers will put down other shots for people to practice on.  They can still make money by you bringing more of your friend to bowl.  Plus once the word get around thier down day won't be as bad.

I have 2 center that I can go to and practice on different patterns.  3 different shots in the machines; Reverse Block, 96 World Team Challenge and a Sport Condition.  In the wood house the WTC is the worst, in the syn house the reverse block is the worst.

See what you can work out.  Good Luck.
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OLI - USAF Retired and Pro Shop Operator
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C-G ProShop-Carl

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Re: Are we being robbed of opportunity?
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2003, 12:25:44 AM »
Unfortunately most of the bowlers don't feel the same as you. I certainly do.

There are several bowling allies around where I am. I bowl in a few, but the primary place I bowl is known without a doubt to be the most difficult shot in area. A 60 year old house with wood lanes, it still has the above ground ball returns.

I once carried a 223 average (my 3rd year of bowling) in a different house while at the same time only managing 195 in the old wood place. Big difference.

There are 2 bowling allies around here that the scores are over inflated. Last season one of them had 96 300 games and 74 800 sets. The other had 68 300 games and 50 800 sets. Where do you think the better bowlers want to bowl? The easier houses because that will not put a dent in their reputation. Example, one guy bowled in the house that had 96 300 games, he decided he was going to come to the old wood place because it was more of a challenge. He averaged 227 in the easier house and only managed 188 in the "more challenging place". He has already said he will not return next year.

Bowlers want scores. That is the biggest point in a proprietor's mind. They do not want to come to league and be frustrated. They want to leave happy, knowing they just had their high 700 set and hardly had to work to get.
Carl Hurd

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10 In The Pit

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Re: Are we being robbed of opportunity?
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2003, 02:04:44 AM »
Are bowlers being robbed by houses putting down easier shots???  Well, I would have to say that the answer is NO.  However, one trying to improve their game does have to do something besides just roll the ball....they have to WATCH their ball for the entire length of the lane, and make mental notes on exactly where and when the ball was on which boards.  Sure, you might have a 5 board area to hit and get back to the pocket, but you aren't worrying about hitting any area....you are worrying about hitting your TARGET.

If you take the time to critique each shot as it happens, then you can get instant feedback on how accurate you are, regardless of what happens on the pindeck.  Most bowlers get too wrapped up in seeing the strike, but they fail to watch the ball trajectory as it travels down the lane.....by not paying attention to where the ball actually went, they are robbing themselves of being able to improve on their accuracy, even when bowling on a wall shot.

You don't have to take the wall down to work on your accuracy....just take good mental notes on every shot, as the ball travels down the lane.  You can SEE whether you hit your mark or not, and make adjustments based off of the visual feedback.

laner7pin

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Re: Are we being robbed of opportunity?
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2003, 08:51:53 AM »
I bowled in 2 different houses this year and both houses put up a wall, but different lengths and amount of oil. House one goes 39 feet with an 8-8 wall, good amount in the middle and lot less outside. As a lefty, I could play outside with almost anything in my bag, except the "big hookers" which I had to move 5-8 boards in and play the oil. In house 2 the pattern was 35-36 feet, still an 8-8 spread with a ton of oil inside and almost nothing outside. There I had to play more inside with most stuff and out with the weak balls (including the ol' Blue Hammer). Problem here is the pins are half dea, so smashing the pocket all day didnt carry nearly as well as the other house. I almost had to play an outer angle with more speed, or get way in and literally tr to hit the "swish" zone to get a strike. If say I hit the pocket 10 times, in house one I would strike 8 times, where as I would strike 6 times at house 2. I avg. over 200 in both houses with decent spare shooting (a lot better if I didnt whiff so many 7 pins). Or me, being to play 2 different places on the lane with multiple choices in equipment, I feel as though I am not getting "robbed", unless I get into brackets. Usually I put out an "ok" first game, which usually puts me out right away but have a better second game a solid 3rd game (190-210-235 for example). I feel as though overall between the two houses I have become a better bowler by playing different lines and angles varying my speed (hard to harder) and having different drillings than a normal "label" layout (Colossus 3 1/2 x 5, rolls and hits a ton, doesnt hook as much as my label DC Warlock). Versitility is the key I think and if I were to walk into a "harder" condition for a tournament I feel after practice I could figure out a good line with the right ball and do well. Probably wont win cause: 1) Way too many better bowlers around here and 2)Even though I have a solid mental game, missing spares and switching balls too often during transition kills me every time, but I could cash and make match play. I know the lanemen at both centers and they have had me and a couple of buddies practice on various shots to get a feel for what the shots do in general (fresh, transition, carrydown). This is also for me another way to practice and get better. Overall, the managers will cater to the masses, so as to keep business strong, but at the same time they will more than likely change a shot to make it a little tougher if enough people ask.
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If I could only pick up a 7 pin.....

serice

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Re: Are we being robbed of opportunity?
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2003, 09:45:34 AM »
I think it would be great if a center would reserve a couple of pairs during open bowling in the summer for a tougher oil pattern.  You could structure the pay/time scale accordingly. Maybe it is just oiled this way until 9:00 when open bowling really picks up, but we all know that lanes are open all time time in the summer.  I know that I would pick the tougher lane condition to practice on at least a couple of times a week.

9andaWiggle

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Re: Are we being robbed of opportunity?
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2003, 01:02:10 PM »
Bob, It's funny you mention league bowlers wanting the same shot week to week.  I bowl with some guys that are like that - nice guys, I enjoy bowling with them, but sometimes I can only shake my head at their game.  If they start out wet, I can guarantee 3 of the guys won't shoot over 140 until the lanes dry out some.  Usually, after I throw the 1st practice, I will warn them if there's oil.  Then, about the last half of the 2ng game, I'll let them know "hey, your line ought to be coming in to you" - (of course they've been playing on the same line for 18 frames now, there shouldn't be much oil left on that part of the lane!)  Then, the 3rd game comes and BAM!  They roll the big 220!  LOL.  I think the funniest part is when you suggest they try to move, then get the "deer in the headlights" look like that is a totally new concept they never thought of.

I try to get variation on the house shot by bowling at 3 different houses in the area.  Still, this weekend proves I have a long way to go!

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9-

Why, WHY won't the last one just fall??  It's WIGGLING for cryin' out loud!!
Little Bo Peep has lost her sheep...

I wonder where they went? ;)

9andaWiggle

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Re: Are we being robbed of opportunity?
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2003, 01:30:19 PM »
LOL Ragnar!  Glad to know I'm not the only one that sees this!  You don't happen to bowl in the same house as me, but only a different league do you? LOL Maybe I should change my sig. line to read "the lanes may change, but the people never will".

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9-

Why, WHY won't the last one just fall??  It's WIGGLING for cryin' out loud!!
Little Bo Peep has lost her sheep...

I wonder where they went? ;)

Steven

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Re: Are we being robbed of opportunity?
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2003, 02:13:38 PM »
Sawbones: I see two problems with your response:

First, most house patterns do not 'punish' you when you make a subtle mistake in execution. You make think you're repeating shots, but it may in fact not be true. The only way to know for sure is to bowl on conditions that kill you when you make mistakes -- otherwise it's a guess. If you currently dispute this, you wouldn't if you had the opportunity to play real PBA and/or sport conditions.

Second, most house do not allow you to practice all lines with your "A" game. If the regular house shot is bone dry from 10 to the gutter (as many are), how do you effectively practice playing the twig and measure real world success/failure? Simply hitting a mark is not going to give sufficient feedback. Hitting the right breakpoint relative to effective carry is at least as important, and can't be simulated in this example.

Steven

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Re: Are we being robbed of opportunity?
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2003, 04:05:56 PM »
Bob: I do know when I make a bad shot and still blow out the rack, and it happens too often to be satisfied with overall results.

I guess I was partially answering Sawbones thinking about this PBA Pattern league I'm currently in. Where I'm struggling is not with 'hit the mark' accuracy, but with speed control. In regular league, I've developed a game where I overcome bad heads with keeping speed up, and it works in that setting. In the PBA league, at least on pattern #C, success depends more on getting a good early roll on the ball with speed control. The few in the league who are having any success (including Robert Smith) are careful not to overpower the shot to get the right breakpoint. In my case, I'm seeing personal flaws I didn't realize were there, so I'm reevaluating my whole approach.

It's difficult to simulate this on most normal house shots because it's much harder (if not impossible) to get that level of reaction feedback. That's the main point I was trying to convey.

Steven

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Re: Are we being robbed of opportunity?
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2003, 11:40:00 AM »
Sawbones: We all have to practice on what's available and make the best of it -- that's all we can do. But it doesn't change that our regular house conditions limit what we can truly work on.

You bring up the valid point about learning to hit you mark, but that's just one part of the overall equation in being successful on Sport/PBA patterns. Speed and breakpoint control factors are equal, if not more important, in finding the right formula for consistent scoring. The reality is that most league patterns cannot give you the success/failure feedback in practicing speed/breakpoint control -- you need the real conditions to see and understand what's really happening.

It's not an accident that truly accurate league bowlers average 30-40 pins less when they get on PBA/Sport patterns. I'm talking about players who do in fact know how to practice in their home houses. Again their issue is not learning to hit their mark or play different parts of the lane, but to get speed and breakpoint under control. Real world results confirm this story.    


Steven

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Re: Are we being robbed of opportunity?
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2003, 01:09:20 PM »
Sawbones: What you're describing is the difference between learning to fly in a simulator and actually going solo in the sky. While the simulator can take you part of the way, there is no substitute for actual experience. I'd like to address a few specific points you made:

 
quote:
Not only can one practice hitting a mark, they can also practice speed control and develop different ball reactions on a single lane.


Yes, one can practice speed control, but again it goes back to feedback of success/failure. "Speed" is not a concept that lives by itself. It works in conjunction with release, follow through, roll, and angle. All factors must be in harmony to experience consistent success on Sport/PBA patterns. Again, most house conditions do not provide the appropriate feedback when one's approach is fundamentally incorrect. Without the right feedback, one cannot make the correct physical adjustments, because they don't really know that anything is wrong.

 
quote:
If you really want to hone your game, don't look for certain patterns to practice on. Go to a brickyard type house where they maybe have one 300 a yr.
 


There is a fundamental misconception about brickyards vs. PBA/Sport conditions. Brickyards for the most part are random obstacle courses; PBA/Sport patterns actually have consistency that can be attacked when you understand what's laid out. Both are difficult, but the similarities generally end there.  

 
quote:
You seem to think you can only learn how to play a sport condition by having the opportunity to practice on it.


There are a large group of bowlers who honestly believe this. I was talking to Robert Smith before PBA league, and he told me he won't do regular leagues any more (and hasn't for the past two years) for the reasons discussed. This thinking is far more prevalent than you think.  

 
quote:
Seems that a lot of bowlers do well at the ABC despite not having that condition to practice on at home. Reason--they have developed a solid game and can take that game to any condition.
 


As in any sport, there are athletes who develop superior skills despite not having ideal conditions. Others need to work harder to attain similar skills, and for those folks, bowling on the real thing is a necessity.