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Author Topic: Average Control Watch Patrol  (Read 1712 times)

thirtyclean

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Average Control Watch Patrol
« on: July 26, 2004, 08:53:57 PM »
Everyone,

Lately, certain individuals in our local leagues have
been developing an art of average control tha is so
precise that it is becoming a major issue in our
home house and some of the neighboring houses. There
are a few bowlers who are 25 to 30 pins lower than they
should be, but are never called on it, have perfected the
art so well that it is down right sickening. Example,
he just has come off shooting his 250 plus game with his
25 to 30 pins handicap and has won doubles with his other
scamming partner. The next game, he mysteriously loses
his prior line, and goes down to 145 to 150 game.
Should the league officers or a watchdog group be
created to police this type of behavior ? How have
your leagues handled these situations with these type
of individuals. Being basically a scratch bowler, it
bothers the hell out of me. I have spoke to individuals
in my center and some leagues this person would not
walk out of the house with his two legs in place. Share
some of your stories.
To add, another tactic this guy uses is he will walk
up and down and check if his partners have anything going,
if not, he will basically stop stringing his strikes if
none of his runners are scoring.
Well, tonight I am going into a no tap tournament that
has been jokingly named after this individual because
he has won it so often, and I will shove it up this
individuals _ss, and take some of his crooked money
and send a message. Again, I would be interested in
some ways us legitimate guys have handled these type
of siuations. I would love to start a 'baggers' post
where the individual (the most extreme ones, not the
ones that suck and get lucky once in a while), their
names and home houses.

Thirtyclean
Thirtyclean

 

channel surfer

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Re: Average Control Watch Patrol
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2004, 12:03:30 PM »
Well you have no way to prove hes sandbagging, Unless he admits to it.

Other than that, you have nothing.
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good-bye

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Re: Average Control Watch Patrol
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2004, 12:51:29 AM »
Sandbagging ain't new.
What stinks is those who sandbag, bowl just well enough to win their matches and when they bowl the higher bowlers they bowl every game well!!!!

Heck, our family can be 100 ahead, know we're going to win or even against a blind and still try our best.

Some might consider that being nasty and rubbing it into the team losing but we're there to bowl our best.

One summer we had our best night of the summer. Bowled 800's all 3 games, giving 200 pins handicap. Won all 4, other team said they needed more handicap!!!

Strange thing this winter: guys were one short. 4 men team. The guys all bowled 700's and the blind only got 180. They got scratch team series!
--------------------
Kathy, From PA!
Big mouth, loves to talk.
-----------------------------------------
I wish I knew as much about bowling as my son.
He's not a bragger but mom sure loves to share his good times!

thfonz98

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Re: Average Control Watch Patrol
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2004, 03:06:33 AM »
heck i had a former teammate who we nicknamed 250-150..because thats what always seemed to happen...

SrKegler

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Re: Average Control Watch Patrol
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2004, 03:49:54 AM »
I’ve given sandbagging a lot of thought, trying to find ways to prevent it, or at least minimize it.

Problem is, it looks like us league bowlers are encouraging it.  

My leagues bowl the quarter system.  One of the leagues has been won by the same team the last 4 years.  They seems to bowl really bad the first 3 quarters, then all of a sudden they find their game the 4th quarter.  Of course by then they have so many games in they can bowl 60-70 over average without worrying about any loss of handicap.

At the start of every league season, I try to get it changed back to total wins for the year.  Can’t get a majority vote.  Either a bunch of sandbaggers on the league or the guys think they have a better chance of winning a quarter.

Our sandbaggers are a little more subtle.  Instead of missing simple spares, they’ll make ball changes and start leaving washouts, splits once they have the game in hand.

Unfortunately, the only way you can prove sandbagging is if the guy is stupid enough to admit it.  Then you also have to have it on tape.

A few years ago I video taped one of our notorious baggers.  He started the first game strike/spare, 5 bagger.  In the 8th frame he switched to a plastic ball, moved 10 boards left on the approach, went 7 out for the 8-9-10 frame.

Next game he went back to his original ball and line, threw about the first 4 strikes, and then switched back for 4 more opens.

ABC said that wasn’t proof of sandbagging.

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good-bye

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Re: Average Control Watch Patrol
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2004, 04:09:51 AM »
This past year my son tried playing some different shots in leagues to improve his game, not sand bag.

My son and husband bowl together Friday nights. 2 years in a row there was no need for a roll off!! They got both halves, roll-offs were for second.
This year they cinched first half with 2 weeks to go. They had hoped to repeat it but one bowler got hurt and they had no sub. They take 10% off missing bowlers. I wanted to sub badly for them, but guys don't want women there.

It was kind of cool this year. My hubby missed high ave. by about 7 pins! for the year. They gave him an award for that.

My son coached some new guys from Guatamala, new to the country and sport. 2 of them got awards, one for most improved. Made my son feel good. when he first helped them, they gave him a bottle of Guatamala Rum.
He gave them a bowling book, I think it was Parker's.

Rambling now.

Years ago a low ave. bowler got onto my husbands team. Chris and my husband didn't care. They figured he was an asset. They weren't captain, the captain kicked him off. They felt badly.

Justice was served. 3 years in a row he got most improved after that and his team got first the one year. He was a neat guy!!! I knew his mom. He had to quit eventually because of money.
--------------------
Kathy, From PA!
Big mouth, loves to talk.
-----------------------------------------
I wish I knew as much about bowling as my son.
He's not a bragger but mom sure loves to share his good times!

JohnP

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Re: Average Control Watch Patrol
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2004, 01:06:32 PM »
SrKegler -- One way to deal with the sandbagging issue is via the prize fund.  Distribute the big majority of the prize money on a per point won basis.  Then every point is important.  Give maybe $10 per man for league champion, $7.50 for second place and $5.00 for third.  The team that sandbags as you describe may still win the league, but the teams that put full effort out every time will win a lot more money.  --  JohnP

good-bye

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Re: Average Control Watch Patrol
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2004, 02:37:34 PM »
Adult child,
we never ran into that problem when the kids were young. Problem I had, they both wanted to bowl with DAD because of his high ave. and they knew with him they'd place better than with me.
HUsband bowled his first 300 If I remember right in a non-sanctioned summer league with the kids, or was it a 297,
We didn't have that big of an age range when my son and daughter were young. There may have been 13 or 14 year olds when they did it but most older ones did the junior leagues thing instead.
I can see your point thought, wanting to make the kid happy.
I felt my daughter got cheated over the years, Son and Pop won more than her and pop.
Thing that did it with my husband, he was Mr. Consistent most of the time and the kids improved all of the time. Plus our adult summer league brought out mostly non-bowling parents just for something to do with the kids.
--------------------
Kathy, From PA!
Big mouth, loves to talk.
-----------------------------------------
I wish I knew as much about bowling as my son.
He's not a bragger but mom sure loves to share his good times!

LuckyLefty

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Re: Average Control Watch Patrol
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2004, 02:53:26 PM »
SrKegler that is some story!

That is mostly what I've seen too!

Stuff along those lines.  

Swithching balls when striking.
Switching lines when striking.
One guy I know is great with thumb and without and gets about 3 boards more hook without his thumb.  If he and the team get a big lead and is striking no thumb he changes nothing but puts his thumb in and throws bucket after bucket after a 6 or 7  bagger.  Often will throw a strike with 12th ball(thumb back out) and then start the next game thumb back out 6 bagger while he sizes up the situation.

I can't begin to tell you the 800s he hasn't thrown while he comfortably carries about a 202 to 208 average.

One group with league secretary on team one night when they already wrapped up the playoffs all shared a Elvis spare ball and stood deep inside just glancing the headpin.  NO one shot over 140 until last game where they entered a pot game and 3 guys averaging high 170s shot 235 +.

Surprise they won the playoffs.

If Sr Kegler's story is not sandbagging they'll never catch it!

Somehow around here they banned a guy who was averaging about 17X in league and won about 5 tourney's averaging over 225!  I don't know how!

REgards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana