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Author Topic: RULES Who enforces them and how ?  (Read 2388 times)

Red-Lake-83

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RULES Who enforces them and how ?
« on: December 13, 2008, 07:28:43 PM »
Hi All, First off let me Thank you all for any help with this topic. I have only been bowling for 3yrs now and I find that the few leagues that I have been in are run pretty well and for the most part pretty fair in regards to rules, except for the one I have been in for all 3yrs and continue in because I and my wife like most everybody!

The situation has been in the past that if I brought a rule violation up I am usually just laughed off and told not to take it so seriously. This is just a for fun league with no real money involved! Well last league session this became a problem. So I will give the situation that occurred and then my version of how it should have been handled by my interpretation of USBC rules.
I would appreciate any help with this matter.

Everything began like any other night we made it through the first game every body having a good time. The opposing team was made up of a husband and wife that I've known in this league for 3yrs and a new member and substitute. Well we were into the 8th frame of next game(2nd) and their anchor on right lane slipped a bit at the line. I lead off the 9th and slipped as well nearly falling down. Then my wife slipped and twisted her ankle! At this point I did not think anything was wrong because I and my wife are not always the most stable people on the lanes. Our 3rd bowler a lefty went without any problems but then our anchor who is very stable and consistent went and he slipped. At that point I looked over at the other teams table just to see a bottle of baby powder in front of the new member and after looking closer I could see the powder on the floor all around the settee area of their table. We informed the secretary of the violation of rule#12 play was halted. The new member was informed and shown the rule book. He claimed he could not see it due to leaving his eye glasses at home and due to this would not stop using it until he could go home and get them and he also claimed he was never given a copy of the rules so they did not apply to him. Then the president got involved and informed them that it would be of the 2nd and 3rd games if he continued to use the powder. He refused to stop the use. I was only asking for forfeiture of the 2nd game and that he stop the usage and the approaches and settee area be cleaned. Then bowl the 3rd game. The presidents counter idea was void the 2nd game scores and clean everything and then bowl 2nd and 3rd games. I accepted this so as to not look petty, But the other team did not and packed up and went home. We were told not continue and to write up our protest for the rules violations which now includes rule#11 delay of game resulting in forfeiture of game 3.

After reading and rereading the rules: Here is how I think it should go. First the secretary should have been left out and my team captain should have been taken to the president who is supposed to enforce any rules violations. Forfeiture of 2nd game for violation of rule#12(foreign substance on approaches)and forfeiture of 3rd game for violation of rule#12(refusal to stop usage of baby powder) and rule#11(delay of game)for refusing to continue. And also we need to post bowl games 2&3 unopposed under known forfeitures and score within at least 40 or more of our team handicap to receive these points and the pin fall for our season totals.

One more small question: Our league thinks ever little rule violation needs be put in writing before it can be enforced for any forfeitures I do not read the rules this way at least not the first 18. I only see in the rules to do so in the case of appeals.
Thank You again for any and all replies!!!
P.S. Sorry for such a long first post.
P.S.S. Next morning my wife's doctor put a soft cast and a walking boot on her twisted ankle. So I think this was not so laughable this time. Plus their sub finished the night by calling me an f@#$%&* a#$$%^& two inches from my face!! Just a fun league ok!
Live life every day to the fullest and Love the ones your with for you will never know when you might loose them!

 

nd300

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Re: RULES Who enforces them and how ?
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2008, 06:39:59 AM »
1.Send the "new member" a copy of the bill for the twisted ankle for whatever your insurance didn't cover.
2.Since your wife might not be able to bowl,make sure that you get a substitute for her,and have the person who put the powder on the lanes pay for the substitute.
3.Make sure your wife goes with you next week and let the person who used the powder see what his powder used caused.
4.The secretary is usually the most visible and well known league officer.Going to him/her as a first response is usually all it takes to resolve a rules question/violation.
5.Having the rules violation/complaint written down is a good idea because the case may be won or lost depending on the exact wording of your request for forfeiture.
7.The league officers need to meet immediately to resolve the question of forfeiture.USBC rules state that any pre or post bowling must be done within 7 days of the next scheduled league session.I'm not sure if you could post bowl them after your next regular league session if the situation isn't resolved.Plus I believe that forfeiture would be immediately granted if the refuse to bowl at all,meaning that your team automatically wins the points in question.
 Keep us posted.
And we hope your wife is doing ok.........

t1buck

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Re: RULES Who enforces them and how ?
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2008, 09:51:14 AM »
Here is the rule for prebowled/postponed time frame.

111f. Time Limit for Bowling
 

Prebowled/postponed games must be bowled as follows:

1.   Prior to the date of scheduled competition for final team standings for the season or each segment of a split season or

2.   Within seven days when the postponement is granted for the last day of a segment (split season leagues) or

3.   Within seven days when the postponement is granted for the last day of the schedule.

 

The foregoing applies to teams bowling in direct opposition. A league may adopt different time frames for individual and/or team unopposed bowling.

 

The foregoing does not apply when a protest or appeal is pending finalization under Rule 119.

Tim


Hogsharley

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Re: RULES Who enforces them and how ?
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2008, 10:06:21 AM »
quote:
1.Send the "new member" a copy of the bill for the twisted ankle for whatever your insurance didn't cover.


Better yet. Send a copy of the bill to the manager of the alley. He/she will make sure that the A hole never bowls in that house again. This is a very serious violation of the rules. Ignorance of the rule is one thing. Non-complaince after told of the rule should not be tolerated.

I would ask the president to hold a meeting (with your wife there in her soft cast) and ask for that bowler to be thown out of the league.
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Smash49

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Re: RULES Who enforces them and how ?
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2008, 12:17:59 PM »
Unfortunately many leagues adapt or ignore rules ala carte.  Good thing your league is at least acting.  I've seen some league officers that are clueless as to finding the rules or know how to get a ruling.  I may not know every rule in the book but some people do not even know there is a rule book.  Rule 12 is one of the most controversial rules that USBC has.  It is written very vaguely.  Baby Powder has not been allowed for well over 30 years in many houses due to it's dangers.  Center management normally will take care of this issue.

Smash49
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sdbowler

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Re: RULES Who enforces them and how ?
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2008, 12:22:07 PM »
Most bowlers will approach the league secretary due to not knowing for sure who the other league officers are. In the leagues that I bowled in the secretay would take care of it or if he thought that he should have the president do it he would send him down.
As far as baby powder goes many people either just don't know or don't care that they can't use it. It is amazing how many people simply don't know they can't use.
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Kyle

Atochabsh

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Re: RULES Who enforces them and how ?
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2008, 03:08:37 PM »
Not being handed a USBC rule book does not make a player immune to USBC's rules.  By joining a USBC league you are agreeing to the USBC rules.  USBC does not provide rule books for every player, in fact they do not provide rule books for every team.  Just the league officers.  BUT each officer should have their USBC rules and league rules on hand.  Plus the USBC rules are available online at bowl.com  Mention of such rules are always done at the league meeting at the beginning of the season.  If you didn't go, then oh well.  What's even worse is when subs are not sanctioned.  So you might want to check into that as well.  Adults MUST pay for USBC sanctioning the first time they bowl in a USBC league (for the season).  

You do need to put your protest in writing.  

All leagues that I know of end up adopting various rules to suit circumstances that have come up over the years.  However, the baby powder issue is a USBC rule and as such cannot be voided by a league rule.  Leagues cannot put into place rules that will veto a USBC rule.  So it stands.  Most leagues have a sentance in their rules that say any other rules will be covered by USBC rules.  Its not really necessary since you are a USBC league but most times its there.  

I always snicker when people refute your complaint with the "its a fun league" statement.  Like that is supposed to allow the league to be a free for all.  My general retort is that if its a fun league then why bother to keep score?  Just divy up the prize fund equally between the participants.

Erin

Red-Lake-83

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Re: RULES Who enforces them and how ?
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2008, 01:05:36 PM »
Thank You all for the quick replies and good information. I will up date all after we find out the results of this mess. My wife says Thanks too for all the well wishes!! My next topic will have to be a little less long winded and on a more pleasant topic in bowling! Bowl well all!!
Live life every day to the fullest and Love the ones your with for you will never know when you might loose them!