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Author Topic: Average - THS vs PBA shot  (Read 10713 times)

J_w73

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Average - THS vs PBA shot
« on: January 22, 2010, 03:07:36 AM »
Looking at some stats on leaguesecretary.com and USBC.  You see some bowlers averaging 240 and 250 that you would think would be able to go pro.
These bowlers are good but are there some 230 and 240 bowlers that just fall apart on a PBA shot?

What is the biggest difference in average you have see in your local area for someone between the THS and PBA shots?
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mainzer

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Re: Average - THS vs PBA shot
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2010, 05:37:36 PM »
I am about 20 give or take depending the shot and house
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BrunsMike

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Re: Average - THS vs PBA shot
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2010, 05:43:06 PM »
quote:
The hardes thing with the PBAx league i think is that you move aftre each game and do not get a warm up ball or two on the new lane.  Every lane is deffent so that is a challenge to get to the right spot early enough.
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This isn't true for every PBAx leauge out there. The 2 I've bowled in over the last 3 year's or so (did not bowl in a PBAx leauge last year) did not have the bowler's move after each game. 1 leauge was a 3 game series leauge with free bowling until closing for leauge member's and the other leauge was a 4 game series leauge with 1 free game per day after 9pm for leauge bowler's. Now I do wish it was mandatory for a lane change after each game because this will give bowler's a better understanding to how each lane differ's and to shed some light on what the pro's can possibly see on a typical day in competition.

I agree with JessN16 100%. I'm a victim of that myself, that's why my average drop's 30 or more pin's from a house to PBAx shot. I will be joining a pbax leauge this summer and doing a 9 pin sweeper pbax style. 4 game's across 8 lane's against some of NE IL and SE WI's best bowler's.
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Mike Zadler

Track_Fanatic

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Re: Average - THS vs PBA shot
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2010, 05:51:11 PM »
I can tell you first hand that when your THS bowler bowls on theses conditions, its not only being able to be consistent with hitting the same mark with the utmost consistency, but you also have to take into play of how they play the lanes.  I have seen it way too many times the people that bowl in these leagues do not have a clue on how to play them.  You have people spraying the ball everywhere "trying" to find something.  If you ever watch a PBA tournament (not tv finals), most likely you understand what I am talking about.  Yes, the shot is more, if not a lot more difficult than your THS, but with bowlers playing everywhere on the lane since they may not have a clue on how to read oil patterns, theses patterns turn into something quite uglier than they really should be.
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DON DRAPER

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Re: Average - THS vs PBA shot
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2010, 09:18:54 PM »
most years i''ll average somewhere between 225-230 in league. in the eight(8) pba regional tournaments i bowled i have a composite average of 203. your margin of error on a tough shot is slim. missed spares are a big mistake and splits are brutal. a lot of the difference is mental outlook.

Edited on 1/22/2010 10:19 PM
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Atochabsh

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Re: Average - THS vs PBA shot
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2010, 11:17:57 PM »
depends on the house shot.  

Many of our participants are averaging higher on the PBA Exp. then the house shot.
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David Lee Yskes

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Re: Average - THS vs PBA shot
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2010, 11:48:58 PM »
Since I havent done a PBAX league yet, i've only done a few Sport shot type tournys and its a typical 20-30pin drop..

But my first PBA Regional was in 2001... My average in the house was like 190???  the shot was tough, basically like a PBA shot...  The Shot for the Tournament was alot like what I faced in league but dryer/shorter oil.. And I did average 190 for the tourny lol.  

I knew I needed to learn to play more of the lanes when Curtis Odom was on my pair and was taking a Storm X-IT right up the 10board, while i was taking my "weak" ball and playing 5th arrow out to 10...   Mr Odom, averaged about 230 for the tournament.  And I believe finished 2nd.  


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completebowler

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Re: Average - THS vs PBA shot
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2010, 12:05:08 AM »
quote:
most years i''ll average somewhere between 225-230 in league. in the eight(8) pba regional tournaments i bowled i have a composite average of 203. your margin of error on a tough shot is slim. missed spares are a big mistake and splits are brutal. a lot of the difference is mental outlook.

Edited on 1/22/2010 10:19 PM


I am in a similar boat. I average 222-235 on most THS (currently 234 and 228) and after six consecutive years at nationals I am at 208 out there. Have won some local sweepers on PBA patterns and without keeping track I would say I am around 205.

I think the big thing is style and to some degree the era you learned to bowl in. I was carrying high 180's in H.S. at age 14 with a Gold Angle and if you learned to bowl back then (or before) I think it is an advantage.

I simplify my game and play like the urethane days....get it to the 1-3 make your spares and hope for some carry. The key is repeating your shots so the power players that tear up THS are usually the guys that look foolish and drop 30-40 pins.


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al_g

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Re: Average - THS vs PBA shot
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2010, 04:41:44 PM »
For me I was 13 pins lower last season. I booked a pair of 215's last year and was 202 in a PBAX league over the summer(84 games). Other years I've been 15-17 pins lower. I'll credit not dropping 30 pins to my spare shooting.

quote:
Is it a 30 pin drop or do "good" bowlers tend to fall in a range of 180-190 on a PBA shot which tends to be around 30 pins.. my point of the post was to see if a majority of high average house bowlers(230-250) fall to this 180-190 as well.. and from what people are saying it looks like they do..
I agree though, I think the more you like to swing it and bounce off the dry on a house shot.. the more you will suffer on a PBA shot..


Besides what's already been said, I think there's a few other factors that can effect the bowlers who are legitimately good on any condition and they still drop 30 pins:

1. Are the lanes being stripped and oiled like they should?
2. Are people playing the lanes the way they should be played?

If 50%(or maybe less) of the people are playing the lanes wrong that can cause lower scores for everyone. I've seen really really good regional guys average under 200 in a PBAX summer league with 140-230 THS average bowlers in it. The same year they averaged 205-215+ for a season at regionals. If you have a mix of people pointing it off the corner, trying to swing it 15 boards and doing who knows what, it can really make the lanes unplayable no matter how good you are. It's no different than Nationals where the teams that break down the shots together score and those that don't work together typically aren't very high in the money. And for those of you who have bowled at Nationals, pray you never follow two pairs of people throwing plastic on your lanes before you bowl doubles and singles, lol.

I won't complain about lower average bowlers in a PBAX league though. They're there for a reason and I know some 220+ guys that won't bowl on the tougher conditions. In the end, scores are just relative to who's shot the best on a given day and knowing you've done the best you can.
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agroves

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Re: Average - THS vs PBA shot
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2010, 11:23:45 PM »
quote:

If 50%(or maybe less) of the people are playing the lanes wrong that can cause lower scores for everyone. I've seen really really good regional guys average under 200 in a PBAX summer league with 140-230 THS average bowlers in it. The same year they averaged 205-215+ for a season at regionals. If you have a mix of people pointing it off the corner, trying to swing it 15 boards and doing who knows what, it can really make the lanes unplayable no matter how good you are. It's no different than Nationals where the teams that break down the shots together score and those that don't work together typically aren't very high in the money. And for those of you who have bowled at Nationals, pray you never follow two pairs of people throwing plastic on your lanes before you bowl doubles and singles, lol.


^^This.  I've gutted out a 550 at Nats after following 8 of 10 bowlers tossing plastic.

quote:
I won't complain about lower average bowlers in a PBAX league though. They're there for a reason and I know some 220+ guys that won't bowl on the tougher conditions. In the end, scores are just relative to who's shot the best on a given day and knowing you've done the best you can.


Nor will I.  This is how we learn.  I haven't bowled a sport league in 3 years.  They don't have a winter league and sometimes I need a break in the summer.  I've tried getting together a short season Sport league, but the interest from the house just isn't there, let alone the bowlers.

Anyway, I averaged 190 in our sport league, avg'd about 220 on the house pattern at the time.  I bowl alot of sport condition tourneys and they play MUCH different with more serious bowlers on the lanes.  They tend to break down better and far more playable.


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kidlost2000

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Re: Average - THS vs PBA shot
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2010, 11:52:26 PM »
From what I've seen spares really hurt people on the PBA patterns. Especially for people who hook the ball into a lot of spares.

Some of the PBA patterns are bowler friendly, or style friendly and some are all around tougher. I think that plays a big part. There are many pros that can play anywhere on the lane. The accuracy is incredible. It is what they do for a living.


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ranAAchan

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Re: Average - THS vs PBA shot
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2010, 01:35:30 AM »
I'm like 200 house and 150-160 PBAx. #1 reason is because I'm giving up the pocket and miss a lot of multi pin spares and that's because I refuse to try and play straighter LOL
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tuckingfenpin

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Re: Average - THS vs PBA shot
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2010, 04:47:45 PM »
228 ths high book last year
196 pbax high book last year

I find stringing strikes to be harder. It''s more difficult to get 3 or more in a row due to the required consistency. It''s also much harder to adjust to stay in the pocket when you''re fishing for better carry. I throw straight at all my spares on a harder pattern like Kegel sport shots and PBAX patterns. It''s a lot easier, and negates most of the variables of the pattern.
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Edited on 1/26/2010 5:48 PM
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cheech

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Re: Average - THS vs PBA shot
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2010, 07:42:50 PM »
i dont average very high on a house shot so im only at about 215 on house about 200-205 on PBA and about 190-195 on true sport
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Bluff

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Re: Average - THS vs PBA shot
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2010, 09:37:25 PM »
quote:
Looking at some stats on leaguesecretary.com and USBC.  You see some bowlers averaging 240 and 250 that you would think would be able to go pro.
These bowlers are good but are there some 230 and 240 bowlers that just fall apart on a PBA shot?

What is the biggest difference in average you have see in your local area for someone between the THS and PBA shots?
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180



If those 230 - 240 bowl enought on those so call PBA patterns some can become good or even great.
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