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Author Topic: Averages  (Read 3657 times)

SrKegler

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Averages
« on: July 09, 2004, 03:42:44 PM »
Since it’s a slow nite here at work, thought I would get your opinion on a new method of averages and making sandbagging a little harder.

ABC says you have an established average after 21 games.  OK, no problem with that, but lets always base the average off of the LAST 21 games.  In other words, after you finish a week, the secretary drop the oldest week out of the equation.  This would be a more accurate average than the running total we now use.

Here’s what I see every year in my leagues.  First night, everyone establishes a new average.  â€œSupposedly” a lot of the members of my leagues don’t bowl during the summer and forgot how.  It seems like they don’t remember anything about the game until the 2d or 3d quarter when they have enough games in that their average will only increase by maybe a pin or two.  Of course when its roll off time a lot of these guys look like professionals.  Nothing to lose, they are going to get to start a new average next year anyhow.

If the league used those last 7 weeks of league and carried it over to the next year, it would sure make sandbagging a little more difficult.  What are they going to do, throw off 4 out of the 7 weeks.  Sure won’t make the roll offs that way.

I’m going to try and get this into our league rules this year.  With this system, I wouldn’t mind giving up the 100% handicap.

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matt smith

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Re: Averages
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2004, 08:02:39 AM »
Kegs.

Very interesting way of elimating sendbagging. SEEMS like it would work. Wouldnt be too hard to do either, a simple EXCEL speadsheet can do the hard work for the secy. I might raise this at my league aswell, we have a BIG problem with sandbaggers. Lets put it this way. I won the league by 10 points (40 points available a night), and i only lost 8 scratch points all season.

good luck and high scoring
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SrKegler

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Re: Averages
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2004, 08:37:25 AM »
Another thing to take into consideration.  How many times have you had one of your lower average bowler shoot way over his head the first nite.  The team is then penalized for several weeks until his average drops back to normal.

With scratch leagues hard to find, I'm just trying to find an equitable way to let everyone compete.

Other than the secretaries THINKING it's more work, I can't find any drawbacks.  In my area, all the league sheets are done in house at the alley.  Simple to have the computer just compute the last 21 scores.
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MTFD24

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Re: Averages
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2004, 08:42:54 AM »
Sr you have a fantastic idea, IMHO. And yes, most leagues that I know of have the house computer doing the standings, averages, etc., so that should not be a problem.

The main problem I see is trying to get people to change.
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bad1_andy

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Re: Averages
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2004, 03:47:30 PM »
I like this idea. I think you might be on to something. We would have to get an ABC rule on it or check if we could do that. Other than trying to get people to say yes, it sounds like a great idea.
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Strider

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Re: Averages
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2004, 04:06:09 PM »
I like it.  It would even help when bowling against a team of beginners.  It's not their fault that they're improving rapidly during the year, but it's difficult to match them if your team's average is pretty stable.
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da Shiv

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Re: Averages
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2004, 06:52:52 PM »
SrKegler--
     I like it.  It would not only help eliminate sandbagging just on the face of it, but if the weekly sheets carried both the season-long average and the most recent 21 game average for all to see, it could make for some scrutiny of certain bowlers and some interesting barroom conversation.

Shiv
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dicnic

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Re: Averages
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2004, 09:43:02 PM »
Great idea, but it will be interesting to see if anyone of us can get such a rule passed. Let's try to get such a change implemented in some of our leagues next season.

Additional posts after fall leagues start will restart this thread.
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hotwire13

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Re: Averages
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2004, 10:05:15 PM »
quote:
SrKegler--
     I like it.  It would not only help eliminate sandbagging just on the face of it, but if the weekly sheets carried both the season-long average and the most recent 21 game average for all to see, it could make for some scrutiny of certain bowlers and some interesting barroom conversation.

Shiv
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i was waiting for someone to say this...i guarantee you wont see anyone shooting low early anymore.  you can also start the "sandbagger" award, and give it to the veteran bowler who improved his average the most between the first and 21-game averages.  this is one heck of an idea srkegler.  we can start an over/under on the amount of fights each week.
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SrKegler

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Re: Averages
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2004, 07:30:44 AM »
From what I can interpret from ABC, there isn't any problem with us doing the averages this way, we just have to turn in a year long average to ABC.  A simple rule in our league rules is all that is needed.

Now, to push it through the league.  The problem will be the sandbaggers objecting to it.  I figure if I make a big point during the introduction about the only people that should object being the sandbaggers, they may keep quite rather than admit it.

I think I can get this voted in on our companyies league.  All it takes is a simple majority of the team captains.  If this year runs true to form, the teams that it affects usually don't even show up for the league meeting.  Might kill two birds with one stone here.  Eliminate their sandbagging and teach them to start showing up for meetings.
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JOE FALCO

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Re: Averages
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2004, 08:32:54 AM »
I've read this .. understand it .. but am wondering! Could this be beneficial to SANDBAGGERS. Take the bowler who is bowling good for 17 weeks then starts going bad (or SANDBAGGING) could he not maintain his high average but drop his LEAGUE average in 7 weeks? I haven't tried doing it on paper .. but it seems it could be done. Perhaps I'm wrong .. but in a quick look it seems to me that this might HELP not STOP sandbaggers! Someone straighten me out!
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SrKegler

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Re: Averages
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2004, 08:45:39 AM »
Theoritacally yes, he could drop his average in 7 weeks.  The idea being his team would probably lose every week.  Remember, on week 8 (24 games), you drop off his scores for games 1-2-3.  The fewer the games you have to base an average on, the more drastic the swing.

Normally the bagger looks at the long run, bowls 32 weeks, 96 games.  To raise his average 1 pin at the end of the year, he can shoot 96 pins over average and not lose anything in handicap.


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~~~SrK - Have balls, will travel

1st law of combat, "Bullets always have the right of way"
Have Balls - Will Travel


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allengrace62

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Re: Averages
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2004, 09:34:55 AM »
I know there are sandbaggers out there but I also know there
are a lot of guys that start out the league bowling quite a
lot over their normal average and their teams gets hurt for
a while until things even out. I know that last year myself
and another team member both started out the first night of
league with an average 30 or 40 pins above our normal average.
The next week we had to bowl against the vacancy, had an uneven
number of teams in the league. This required we bowl within
10 pins per man of our average each game. We lost all four
games. Maybe some of you have lots of people in your leagues
that cheat. I don't think we do. I think it is just one of
those things that can happen. A good bowler has a bad night or
a mediocre bowler has a really good night.

LuvThatWhiteDot

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Re: Averages
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2004, 09:56:05 AM »
I like the idea.  I wonder if any of the bowling secretary computer programs can do it.
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Edited on 7/12/2004 9:51 AM

JOE FALCO

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Re: Averages
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2004, 01:14:49 PM »
Had the weekly recap sheets for one of my winter leagues .. made up a EXCEL worksheet and spread out the first 17 weeks on that particular league. After the 17 weeks my running average was 193 at that point in time my 7 week average was 202. My team finished in 10th out of 14 teams .. the 7 day average would have probable hurt that. I think what you are suggesting might hold up for TOURNAMENTS .. I can't see it for LEAGUES .. but that's my thoughts!
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