BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Gizmo823 on September 11, 2013, 10:34:25 AM
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Having a small debate on another site. I had made a comment about a new ball having a bad sounding name, bland colors, and an average at best logo and that I'd have trouble selling it, which I think I would. I had several people come to its defense, and they did have some good points, but only from the perspective of the higher average bowler that considers performance above all else. Obviously I would argue that performance matters most, but for 90-95% of bowlers who aren't your 220+ averages, color, name, and how the ball looks is about all that matters to them. If it looks cool, sounds cool, or smells cool, they're buying it over something that may work a lot better for them. Maybe we just have a funky market here too, and that's partially what I'm trying to figure out, I'm not fishing for support. All I know is that we sell TONS of Motiv stuff over other companies that perform just as well in our area. Venom Toxins are flying off the shelf, but we can't sell a First Blood. Just looking for opinions, thanks everybody.
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I can only speak for myself....but I have never taken into account the name, color, logo of a ball. Everytime I bought a new ball, whether it was when I was in high school till now, it was based on the performance of the ball. Now, it was a bonus of the ball looked cool going down the lane, but it never played into if I would get it or not. For me the "uglier" a ball looked, the better it seemed to work for me. A perfect example was Nu-Line's follow-up to the Excaliber, the Genisis. It was an ugly gold colored ball, but first night with it I shot 289 (with a solid 8 pin no less) and over 1000 for a 4 game set.
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I recommend to pay no attention to appearance when selecting a ball, but instead my customers don't pay any attention to me!! -- JohnP
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Personally, yes and no.
I prefer more solid looking colors, though I will occasionally throw a "swirly" piece (think some of the Track pieces) if it seems to be a homerun for multiple styles.
I've noticed on equipment like my DV8 Diva (which is my most colorful ball) I tend to watch the ball and its color pattern as opposed to noting the ball motion. I think it is easier to watch ball motion with a solid color ball. I always have black grips and a slug to minimize seeing the grips rotate.
I DO NOT believe that color swirls etc really have much of an effect on ball motion. Keeping the colors relatively solid is just a PREFERENCE. I would never advise anyone to purchase based on color alone. With the number of pieces on the market today, I can create a full arsenal based upon the more solid colors I prefer.
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I would say the answer is, absolutely. Now there are advanced people, mostly the ones who visit boards such as this, who would and will argue otherwise. And the debate here will likely seem one-sided, but for a much larger percentage, those elements most definitely come in to play.
Some may argue that this is a ridiculous method for choosing your bowling ball. And I would agree...if they were the only criteria at play. But with the glut of balls on and entering the market, there is much overlap in performance. Again, a small percentage will say there are still subtle but important differences among balls. And I would likely agree. But again, for most people, these subtle differences don't come into play. What they know is that they are looking for a hybrid, for medium-heavy, low RG, high diff. (And those last two may not enter the equation.) So for those people "all things being equal", they'll go with the cool color/name/logo.
My two cents.
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If I truly need a new ball, I will buy the one that I think will fit my needs the best. I am over 220 average. That being said, If I think I will need a ball in the next few months and a real nice looking ball comes out that will probably fill a need in the next few months, I will buy it. If an poor/average looking ball comes out and it may fit a need, I will hold off hoping for a better looking ball.
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Balls I need: NO
Balls I want: YES
They all do the same D*mn thing anyways lol. It really comes down to color or name etc.
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No, I could not care less. However, I do prefer darker balls and I ALWAYS use black slugs and no grips (off the press). This is the snob in me, but guys that use balls with colored grips and slugs make me take them less serious as its just a "sloppy" look to me.
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Me too . . but it's easier to read ball reaction without all the distractions. If you've got swirly colors and grips flying everywhere, you could miss the little jump or wiggle at 30 feet and pay for it next time . .
No, I could not care less. However, I do prefer darker balls and I ALWAYS use black slugs and no grips (off the press). This is the snob in me, but guys that use balls with colored grips and slugs make me take them less serious as its just a "sloppy" look to me.
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Personally, for me it would come down to performance first, then any other eye candy. Two stories from me.
In 1992, Resin came out, and everyone flocked to either the Brunswick Rhino Pro, Nu-Line's Excalibur, or Ebonite's Turbo X. I went with the latter two, mainly based on how they performed on the lane, then the colour. Those wiped the pants off of my Blue and Blue Pearl Hammers. Then roughly 9 months later, everyone flocked to Ebonite's Crush/R. I didn't. The ball performed nice, but I didn't like the colour. It just wasn't me. Since then, Storm came out with both Sun Storms (one of which was the same colour as the Crush/R), 2 different Rhino Pros, The Rhino RE, and Columbia's Beast all came out. None of them appealed to me as far as performance or look went. Then Ebonite brought out the Nitro/R. That colour popped, and the performance on that ball sold me on it.
Same thing pretty much with Columbia's Pearl Quake and Blue Pearl Pulse. The latter reminded me of the colours of my Blue Pearl Hammer, so I ended up buying that one more for colour. Should have known better, but I did, and it still worked for me.
That was 1996/1997. Fast forward 4 years. Looked at Columbia's Tour Boss. Liked the blue colour, but didn't perform well. Zones didn't appeal to me. Ebonite's Omega looked terrible. Matrix was meh.. Apex was meh. they just didn't perform as well as I was needing for my game.
Then the Optyx came out. That brought back the eye candy that the Gold Rhino Pro and Pearl Quake had, and hit like a truck. Picked that up immediately. Same with the TPC Warrior. Loved the colouring on it, and it performed unbelievably well. Still have those two in a couple of my joeys to this day.
So for me, it isn't name. Case in point: Mission X. Didn't work well at all. Pursuit and Pursuit S.. not good at all. Nice colours, but not good. If the ball performs well, it gets my attention. If it performs well enough for my game, I'll get it. I get cocky if it performs well, goes great with my game, and is eye candy to top it off.
Me too . . but it's easier to read ball reaction without all the distractions. If you've got swirly colors and grips flying everywhere, you could miss the little jump or wiggle at 30 feet and pay for it next time . .
The only thing I can say that argues the other side of this, is that if someone is looking for ball motion in relation to where their grips are down the lane, tilt, etc., having grips that you can see could help. But my limit with that is to at least make the grips the same colour as the lettering of the logo or name on the ball. I mean, at least have some sense of aesthetics! :o
BL.
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For me for example, when I got my slingshot for drier lanes, I picked the colors that looked the coolest since it had no bearing on reaction.
I think you will find that if a person is bothering to look at pin positions, diffs, RG etc, they probably don't use color as an important determining factor.
However, here's the key from a marketing standpoint. A lot of ball sales happen from watching someone else throw a ball in league. So what is going to catch you eye?
Robert Smith can throw the ball, but if you are 4 pair away and it is a versa max, it just looks like a solid black blur going doing the lane and probably won't catch your eye. However, it you are any decent rev guy throwing a brightly colored ball well, it usually gets noticed from a couple of pairs away. It you might get asked "what are you throwing".
At least I catch myself watching the reactions of other bowlers ball's that I notice.
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I can only speak for myself....but I have never taken into account the name, color, logo of a ball. Everytime I bought a new ball, whether it was when I was in high school till now, it was based on the performance of the ball. Now, it was a bonus of the ball looked cool going down the lane, but it never played into if I would get it or not. For me the "uglier" a ball looked, the better it seemed to work for me. A perfect example was Nu-Line's follow-up to the Excaliber, the Genisis. It was an ugly gold colored ball, but first night with it I shot 289 (with a solid 8 pin no less) and over 1000 for a 4 game set.
Jorge can speak for me, too. I have used mainly Columbia balls in recent years: the Power Surge (solid neon purple), Full Swing (solid black), and the Freeze (swirls of blue and orange). The Surge was a nice ball and had an additional plus---with its purple coverstock, the Surge looked great going down the lane.
I would add to what Jorge stated: If I had to choose between 2 balls with similar specifications and capabilities, I might consider color.
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I think there are two things going on in this thread:
1) From a bowler's perspective, does it make a difference. For some bowlers it will, no matter what their average. I guess, I was always the exception to the rule. I never cared. All I cared about was how the ball was supposed to perform and did it match up to the lane conditions I was looking to use it on. But for others, especially the once a week, fun league bowlers, color matters.
2) From a pro shop or seller's perspective, it makes a huge difference. You will sell more balls if it has a good color, good shelf appeal and/or a great name that makes it memorable. Sometime that shelf appeal can be because the ball is a throwback, a basic black ball (like the Reax for example), other times it is because of the bright colors and how they interact together. Throw on a good name on top of it and you have a better chance of selling it. But I think the bigger factor than either of those things is Price Point. EBI brought out too many High end balls at high price points. Those didn't sell well. You need to be able to keep the balls at a price point that lets the consumer think they are getting a good deal. Either by getting more performance at a mid-price level, or by keeping the prices low enough to make them feel that way.
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Obviously it does play a factor, otherwise companies wouldn't be worried about coming out with all of these crazy colors and making sure it has a solid name.
People on these boards generally aren't your average bowler, so the idea that it doesn't really matter to most of the posters doesn't surprise me.
Just in general from what I have noticed, the less experienced or skilled you are, the more it matters. There is a reason companies started coming out with these wild plastic balls with images and things in them, regular joe wants something that looks cool.
I would say it breaks down pretty close to this:
1. Average guy off the street that bowls maybe once or twice a month for recreations - very important, probably the most important thing tbh.
2. One league a week guy - Still important, but what the ball can do will play a bit more of a role.
3. Multiple Leagues a week - Still plays a part, but more than likely will be used to choose one over another, or as a reason not to buy a certain ball ( for instance I never bought one of the old Green Messengers because I thought it looked hideous)
4. Tournament/Pro bowler - Won't matter at all, unless there is multiple option inside the same line ( ex. Strike King or Slingshot)
The reason I feel pretty confident about that break down is because I have been 1-3 in my life, and there enough of you that are #4 around here to be able to figure that one out.
I think there is one condition though that trumps either color or name though, price point. The last two I bought were a Arson Low Flare and a First Blood and it was because I got both balls drilled with inserts for under $250
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Have I ever bought a ball because of the name, color, and whatever else?? Back in my early years of bowling absolutely!! I wanted something that I thought would get attention from other people. Now I buy my equipment based off specs and ball motion that I see either in person or on youtube reviews. If a ball has the reaction that I'm interested in getting and it's bright neon pink so what. Most house bowlers that are the 1 night a week bowler they get what they like not caring about performance or the lack there of.
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I think color and name makes alot of difference to many people. To a degree it affect me also. Fluorescent orange or green are hard colors to buy. Also, Diva and Jewel (with a diamond ring logo) names may be hard sells to men.
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Color is a very important factor along with logos.
Certain colors and the way they appear on the ball can be very deceiving going down the lane. It can make the ball look like it is doing more or less then it is. It can also prevent you from seeing what the ball is actually doing from your perspective.
Some logos on the ball can do the same thing. Especially if the ball is dark with say white logos ect.
I had a Morich Awesome Finish that I couldn't bowl with because of the large bright logos all over the ball. From my perspective when it was going down the lane it looked like the ball had no revolutions. It was hard to gauge the balls reaction. When I watched a video of me throwing the ball it looked great. At the foul line however I couldn't watch it.
Mo stated the reason he had the larger pin on the Morich balls was to see the pin migration easier going down lane.
Parker Bohn III mentioned in an interview on above 180 where he drilled a Utli-max and because of the colors going down the lane and the way it was drilled he couldn't properly read the ball. He drilled another one the same way and was able to tell much easier because of the color and swirl pattern what the ball was doing on the lanes.
Same for say the Yellow Misfit, the new Track 400 series white ball that is coming and many others that are really bright solid or swirled colors. It can be hard to judge on the lanes. I do not use inserts and typically use black slugs.
Name and actual logos are a bonus. A lot of the stuff looks like childs crap art or lame 50s comic book drawings that had a box of crayons melted on the ball. It is the popular trend.
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Given that anymore, you can have a similar performing ball in almost any combination of color from many different companies, why not choose one you like aesthetically?
That said, I don't pay too much attention to it myself. I buy cheap and for my needs.
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As a bowler:
I'd like to think I think about the RG, differentials, layout, and coverstock of the bowling balls I throw. Obvious as a consumer myself, I'm sure I am influenced by the aesthetics of a product that can affect whether I would choose one product over another. Chances are if I had two products that are equal in its performance and quality characteristics, I would pick the one I would find more-aesthetically pleasing.
As a pro shop operator:
I have to take in account both the performance and marketability of the product. I also have to understand a large majority of my consumers are more recreational players than competitive/elite ones. This leads to the notion that both price and aesthetics sometimes plays a bigger role in influencing an entry-level bowler. Therefore aesthetically-pleasing products will play a larger influence on what I should keep in stock, rather than performance alone.
In essence, if I were in the business of the actual production of athletic equipment (not just bowling balls), the goal of the business needs to emphasize the need for the product to be a high-quality and user-friendly product, while being aesthetically pleasing.
I hope this isn't a secret or anything, though.
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All I care about is if it knocks down pins. Color, name no big deal.
Also ball needs made in the USA.
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Personally, there are a few colors and one logo I stay away from. Colors: can't do pink or neon green. Otherwise, can't stand most other. Preference is Red/Gold pearl. As far a logo, I stay away from Ebonite. I'm 0 for 4.
S^2
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For me, it's more the tech specs of the ball, such as RG, diff, etc. In terms of color, I don't like a lot of neon since it can make reading the ball a little tougher in some cases. Logos are not a big deal, but I have moved away from the EBI brands since the second half of last season. That was only based on a lot of the Storm/Roto stuff matching my game better.
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As someone who is still trying to learn RG, diff, and all the other stuff that fits my game. I mostly rely on my pro shop operator to recommend a ball for me. But I have 2 main balls that I use, one that kidlost refers to as looking like a box of crayons melted on the ball and the other is a solid blue color. What I have noticed is the multi-color ball looks like I have revs of 150 and the solid color ball looks like I have revs of 375. I know it is an optical illusion, but it makes me hit up on the multi-color ball which I know is not good.
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Good question. To give you a backstory, I'm about 220 avg, bowling my whole life, and sort of an equipment freak. That being said, I've noticed that the easier it is for me to see the rotations, the more I analyze what I'm doing, sometimes to a fault. Most of the time to a fault. So bc of that, I prefer single colored balls with muted logos. I will absolutely throw anything, as there really aren't a whole lot of balls that meet that description.
Some that I have absolutely loved the look of going down the lane, blue vibe, original black widow, silver streak pearl.
And I still really want to pick up a reax, but havent gotten to it yet. Lol.
so to answer the question, it typically doesn't affect what I will or won't buy, but I definitely have a preference.
Matt
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Thanks for the replies everybody, I appreciate it. I know it "shouldn't" make a difference, but honestly to a lot of bowlers it does. We have a hard time selling equipment if it's ugly or sounds weird, and when I criticize the way a certain ball looks, I'm not doing it to be an ass. Some people feel that way, and I suppose if you're loyal to a certain brand, you don't want to hear somebody "knocking" it. At the same time, if you want to get that company on the wall in shops, it can't be named something ridiculous or have dull, muted colors if you want to move them. The people that buy on performance will buy them, but you lose a larger demographic. Some of the larger companies even have misses now and then.
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For me, color and logo design helps with nothing but aesthetics. Now, I do like to examine logos and colors, particularly ones that are terribly designed. For example, the IQ Tour logo: I don't know who signed off on that one, but the "!" is not proportioned correctly. I guess it doesn't help I never had huge success with that ball.
I'm also the guy who throws a hot pink Lane #1 piece, so I have few gripes with design.
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I'll echo what some others have said, or at least alluded to. While color scheme/name/logo should not be the main factor in picking out a ball, I can see why it can be a deciding factor. Even for higher average, competitive bowlers (as long as you're not only using one company), there is no reason to believe you can't find a ball that fits what you are looking for performance wise, but still is appealling to you visually. When you are shelling out a decent amount of $, you should get what you want. If its down to Ball A and Ball B, and they both do the same thing, but I like the way Ball A looks better, thats the one I'll choose.
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I have to say yes. I bought a Golden Globe. Probably didn't need to spend over $100 for a plastic ball, but I liked the look of it.
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Only if the Name and/or Color combination is known for leaving a lot of 10 pins. :o ;D ;D
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I'm in the pro shop business and yes--color, name, and logos on a ball effect sales. Yes, as a pro shop operator--you can 'steer' somebody in the direction you want them to go/buy, but just the initial thoughts, the average bowler will look at color etc. Unfortunately, the Diva is a GREAT ball IMO, but the color and logo makes it a very hard sell for the male bowler in my area.
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I'm not proud to admit this (as a scratch, competitive bowler), but yes - this has factored into my decision at times. Not all the time, but at times it has. Think about it - everyone makes good equipment, and everyone makes equipment that "fits" a certain ball motion. Given that I can get pretty much any ball motion I want from any manufacturer (or by using different layouts), then with all performance things being equal I am often persuaded by appearance in making my final choice.
Speaking of this, I asked a staff member of a certain ball company the other night why he selected a "plain" spare ball over another option from this manufacturer that looked much wilder and more interesting. He said that his ball driller recommended the plain option because otherwise he (the bowler) would pay too much attention to how the ball looks instead of the roll. I thought this was an interesting thing to hear. Of course, being a spare ball with no dynamic core he wouldn't get any difference in reaction between the two balls, but it was interesting to note how the more visually appealing ball didn't win out in this instance.
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If the ball will fit my game, the color and name do not matter - now it is a bonus if I get a ball that I need with a color I like. example I have a Deranged, I absolutely hate the color, but I like the reaction. I do like the Star logo from Roto Grip, but that is also a bonus.
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Reading this thread reminded me of a ball I purchased back around 1999 or 2000.
The pro-shop operator told me he had a [used] ball in mind for me, and when he showed it to me, my first impression was yuck! It was purple, and had pock marks and scratches and was very dull (and not because of sanding or OOB design). He said he would clean it up and I was reluctant, but trusted him, and if he thought it was a good match for my game (he had seen me throw), I was willing to try it.
That ball was (is) a Brunswick Command Zone. He did, in fact, clean it and polish it nicely, but more importantly, that ball is still effective and one of my favorites for it's performance, 14 years later. It's kind of a "mini" skid-flip ball, at least in my hands.
Goes down the lane with very little movement, and then just before it reaches the pins it makes a very abrupt shift. It's not very many boards at all, but I can throw it accurately and still get it to hit at an angle.
Am still not a huge fan of purple balls, and this is not a favorite cause of it's appearance. But am glad I was able to overlook it's beat-up appearance when it was first introduced to me.