Post by: Pinbuster on November 18, 2004, 10:48:04 PM
I have never had a ball that I quit using because I felt it quit hooking enough.
I’ve had balls (original X-Calibur, Red Pulses) I quit using because I resurfaced them so many times the labels were gone and the pinsetter had trouble picking them up.
But I have never had trouble getting the ball to hook so I have never been into getting the real hook monsters either.
I feel 80% of ball death is really I want a new ball fever in the bowler.
Post by: Pinbuster on November 19, 2004, 07:47:29 AM
New balls being closer to perfectly round do roll better.
And I will admit that the hook monsters do hook a little less after they get some oil in the cover stock.
But for the love of Pete, move you feet right a couple of boards the ball is far from unusable and half the hacks blaming ball death don’t get 3 revs on the ball. If you are that dependent on that last 2 boards of hook your game has other issues.
As far as the red alert, I can't say for sure but odds are your house increased the amount or type of oil they put out to combat the big hookers.
Post by: cpo_bee on November 19, 2004, 08:48:53 AM
Post by: Pinbuster on November 19, 2004, 09:01:27 AM
I think it’s all proportional. You have a ball that hooks 30 boards then a 10% loss is 3 boards, a ball that hooks only 10 boards then 10% is only 1 board.
Post by: nicolekidman on November 19, 2004, 09:25:42 AM
If it was then there would be no Rejuvinator, no Hook Again, no Doc's Magic Elixer.
Ball Death exists.
Some people can play the same line with a Ultimate Inferno and the Sonic/X. <hint hint>
Post by: Overhand on November 19, 2004, 09:26:02 AM
quote:
Is this a true statement? The more aggressive a cover, the sooner it will wear down and the less aggressive, it will last longer? If that is true, then particles will have to be replaced first?
I'm guessing that any decline in an aggressive cover is more noticeable...anyone ever experience 'balle morte' on a blue dot?
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It is by Caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that my thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by Caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.
Post by: iommifan on November 19, 2004, 09:37:22 AM
Post by: Burak Natal on November 19, 2004, 09:52:51 AM
Since we have been through this zillions of times, I will just copy and paste from one of my previous posts:
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"Effective" life of a bowling ball is 200-250 games max with a proper maintenance. Note the quotations "effective"! That is a scientific fact, not only experience.
Coverstocks do ware out. Every life has an ending.
Coverstock longevity may vary due to the surface preparation of the ball, rev rate, surface of the lane and oil amount. Some coverstocks last longer, some not. But dies in the end.
The reason that many of us (including me) sometimes do not recognize this until it is too late, it dies gradually. You get used to it in time and continue to play the proper shot by tuning your line with its remaining capacity. Besides, they do not die totally, ofcourse you will see some hook.
Best way to compare that 1000games played ball is drilling new one with identical specs and playing on the same pair. Please also remember you need to have some "serious pattern" on the lane. I don't say heavy oil or light. I say competitive pattern other than THS. (I do not suggest that one of them is better, I suggest that you need to have something other than china wall to see the true hook capacity difference).
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quote:
Is this a true statement? The more aggressive a cover, the sooner it will wear down and the less aggressive, it will last longer? If that is true, then particles will have to be replaced first?
Is this why we could use a Black Beauty for ever just as we never have to replace a plastic spare ball, but feel we need to replace a hook monster as soon as we have to start moving right with it(for correct bowlers that is)?
Bones, it's true.
Aggressive balls usually die "relatively" earlier because they are "programmed" to soak more oil. Again duller balls die "relatively" earlier than polished balls..
quote:
But for the love of Pete, move you feet right a couple of boards the ball is far from unusable and half the hacks blaming ball death don’t get 3 revs on the ball. If you are that dependent on that last 2 boards of hook your game has other issues.
Pinbuster, this I totally agree with you. It is versitality, adjusting, relying on your skills rather than hook in a box, more practice and so.. And it is another issue which I believe Bones could want to write a book about
Why try hard if you have a chance to score 700s on china wall with the ball of the month..
Regards,
Burak
Post by: Pinbuster on November 19, 2004, 10:02:43 AM
Yes coverstocks can and do wear out but I think at least 200 games is available and at that point processes can be performed that will get you another 150+.
Post by: Steven on November 19, 2004, 10:40:06 AM
Most posters here frame "ball death" in terms of "absolute death" after 50-100 games. In others words, they claim that no matter what they do (sanding, polishing, soaking, etc.), they cannot get the ball even close to original reaction.
Again, this is myth.
Balls are little different than cars. If you perform the correct maintenance procedures at the right times using the right techniques, the product should last for years of consistent use. I have a garage full of good balls (many of which several years old) that sit, not because they no longer work, but because I get caught up in the ball of the month club.
Get a spinner, invest in the right supplies, learn proper maintenance techniques for the various cover types, and talk about premature "ball death" will fade into the sunset.
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"You want the truth? -- You can't handle the truth! "
Post by: Brickguy221 on November 19, 2004, 10:50:20 AM
quote:
If it was then there would be no Rejuvinator, no Hook Again, no Doc's Magic Elixer.
Nicolekidman, with the right advertising, products sell. For example, I have an old Forrest Green Quantum that I purchased in 1994. I still use it some today and it hooks and hits as hard today a it did 10 years ago. I have never to this day treated it with anything other than a good cleaning after every bowling session. To sum it up, it has needed none of the products you mentioned and it is not dead....It is still alive!....So, ball death is a myth unless a person doesn't take care of their equipment.
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Retired and bowling on Fixed Income
Post by: DanH78 on November 19, 2004, 11:10:43 AM
Personally, I have never experienced "ball death"
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The clock on the wall says 3 O'Clock...last call...for Alcohol!
Post by: Burak Natal on November 19, 2004, 11:34:28 AM
Ok.. Here we go:
World is flat. And Newton was extremely wrong coz I can fly!
I have a high load particle 3 years old with over 20000000 games on it and still hooks a ton! And guess what, I didn't even clean it ever!
My best regards,
Burak
PS: Pinbuster, message sent
Post by: Pinbuster on November 19, 2004, 11:43:07 AM
You obviously haven’t seen me bowl.
Post by: Overhand on November 19, 2004, 11:52:00 AM
Hey, 'Bones? Would the type of release affect whether a person would even notice if 'ball death' occurs?
For example, an 'up-the-back' release would rely more on the core and drill pattern while someone who comes around the side of the ball seems to involve the cover more for their hook.
I believe in ball death having personally executed numberous balls. The Tracks seem susceptible and an Ultimate Inferno I've had should've had hospice care. It seems the pearl covers resist the effect longer.
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It is by Caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that my thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by Caffeine alone that I set my mind in motion.
Post by: TheBowlingKid25 on November 19, 2004, 12:32:57 PM
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16 years and still going strong! 16 years old that is!
The names Warrior Princess, Xena..Warrior PrincessAnd why would I "saw" pins in half, THATS A WASTE OF PINS!
Post by: nicolekidman on November 19, 2004, 12:53:16 PM
For Robert Smith types it happens after 50-100 games
For Butch Soper types it happens after the Earth Explodes
Post by: Brickguy221 on November 19, 2004, 03:00:04 PM
quote:
"Effective" life of a bowling ball is 200-250 games max with a proper maintenance. Note the quotations "effective"! That is a scientific fact, not only experience.
Coverstocks do ware out.
Burack, try telling that and convincing that to my 10 year old Forrest Green Quantum of which I have already posted above that is is still as much alive today as it was 10 years ago. I don't know the exact games on it, but I can tell you it is way over 1000-1200 games.
quote:
Nothing grabs the lane and hits better than a new ball. Period. Time after time bowlers will report shooting some of their highest games and series after getting a new ball. The new ball did not make them suddenly become better bowlers, it just grabbed the lane and hit the pins harder thus giving more carry.
Bones, I am not in agreement with you here. Sure, I've shot some good games out of the box like others have, but I attribute it to being very-very attentive, being very-very cautious and very-very hard concentration on the new ball a person just received. More so than every day league shooting. If anything, I've had to let my balls sort of get broke in before shooting my higher scores, especially on puralized balls.
quote:
Ball Death DOES EXIST
Nicolekidman, PROVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Retired and bowling on Fixed Income
Post by: Brickguy221 on November 19, 2004, 03:52:18 PM
quote:
So if this isn't ball death, please tell me what it is.
Quite possibly, a change in lane conditions. Also a change in your release, and etc. Until I learned to read the lanes a bit, when I went to practice or what ever and my ball wouldn't move I thought it must be that the lanes were too wet. Then I would get out a more aggresive ball and get same results. Finally I found out that that if lanes are very dry or very wet, a ball can go down the lanes without making a move at all and all the while, a person will think the ball has died and gone to "H".
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Retired and bowling on Fixed Income
Edited on 11/19/2004 4:52 PM
Post by: Brickguy221 on November 19, 2004, 06:53:13 PM
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Retired and bowling on Fixed Income
Post by: a_ak57 on November 19, 2004, 06:56:52 PM
quote:
with proper ball maintenance, I have never had a ball die on me.
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Retired and bowling on Fixed Income
Well that is probably why! If you take care of your stuff it won't die. But if you bowl a few thousand games and don't even touch it, don't you think it would be effected?
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- Andy
Post by: Brickguy221 on November 19, 2004, 07:18:39 PM
quote:
Well that is probably why! If you take care of your stuff it won't die. But if you bowl a few thousand games and don't even touch it, don't you think it would be effected?
Yes, it would be effected with thousands of games and no maintenance. That is exactly the point I have been trying to get across to some of these myth belivers posting under this topic.
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Retired and bowling on Fixed Income
Post by: a_ak57 on November 19, 2004, 07:53:09 PM
I confused.
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- Andy
Post by: Strider on November 19, 2004, 08:52:13 PM
I have two NIB M2's in my closet just for when this one is dead. I took one to the proshop to be drilled identical. I plan to throw them side by side to see how similar or different they are. I'll write back with my findings. If the new one out performs the old one on the same lane condition, I will believe in ball death. I still have my doubts about the 50-100 game "death". Too many people throw way too strong a ball on light oil conditions. Particles are often abused in this way.
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Penn State Proud
Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive (http://"http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/roncarchive.htm")
Post by: Phillip Marlowe on November 19, 2004, 09:28:11 PM
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"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings."
Post by: TappaKegga on November 21, 2004, 10:41:15 AM
Post by: icetink on November 21, 2004, 03:31:44 PM
Be sure to leave it in there for 96h instead of the 24h Ebonite states. This allows more time for the pores to be unclogged for a deeper and more thorough cleaning.
Hook Again is a GREAT product!
For best results, be sure to resurface after using the Hook Again!
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-Dino
Post by: Strider on November 21, 2004, 07:02:16 PM
I should have time to pick up my new M2 and throw it and the old one side by side Monday.
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Penn State Proud
Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive (http://"http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/roncarchive.htm")
Post by: icetink on November 21, 2004, 10:31:16 PM
My Phenom does soak up a lot of oil so the treatment chamber has likely helped a lot. The ball's hook is back to that of out of the box, and pin carry is back to being unbelievable. The ball finishes through the pins much better now.
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-Dino
Post by: TappaKegga on November 22, 2004, 12:29:50 PM
Post by: Brickguy221 on November 22, 2004, 04:02:32 PM
As for solid particles, I won't argue either way as I never had a heavy load particle. I have had one light load solid particle (AMF Angle Evolution Extra)
of which I still use today and it remains strong. Other than scheduled good ball maintenance, I have done nothing else to it other than I have sat it out in the sun a couple times, but could still not see any change in it's reaction. As for Particle Pearls, they seem to last forever for me (same as Reactive Pearls) without any loss in performance, so that is why I don't believe in the ball death myth.
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Retired and bowling on Fixed Income
Edited on 11/22/2004 5:10 PM