win a ball from Bowling.com
« previous next »
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Question about a change in PAP  (Read 1426 times)

leftyinsnellville

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2345
Question about a change in PAP
« on: January 07, 2009, 10:52:40 PM »
I've been working on changing my release to get more revs.  I now start with my hand tilted over as far as it will go (palm almost facing outward and pinky on top) and I hold this position throughout my swing as long as I can, usually coming around just before getting to my slide leg.  I've always had trouble staying under the ball and really haven't been able to improve it that much (my thumb tends to stick when I concentrate on keeping my hand under the ball).

My pap before I started the new hand position was 4 and 1/8 inches over and 1/2 inch up.  During practice last night I was throwing my Roto-Grip Neptune and when I got home I noticed a distinctive track which I've never had on this ball before despite having thrown several games with it in the past. (I'm presuming this is caused by the increase in revs.)  I decided to check my pap and drew a line on my track with a grease pencil starting where the track was closest to my thumbhole and then doing my best to follow it around the ball.  I put it in the spinner and adjusted it until the track line was wobbling the least and then marked the top with a grease pencil.  Much to my surprise my pap was 2 and 1/2 inches over and 2 inches up.

What the heck does that mean?  Is this a good thing?  My ball reaction does have a good bit more pop at the end, but not near as much as I had hoped for.  I'm still restricted to playing a more down and in shot to get to the pocket.  Conditions were pretty good as there was a fair amount of oil and I'm a lefty.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!
--------------------

ILBT!

( o )( o )

Logged

 

leftyinsnellville

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2345
Re: Question about a change in PAP
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2009, 07:04:58 AM »
ttt
Logged

Dan Belcher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3954
Re: Question about a change in PAP
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2009, 07:10:10 AM »
A ttt only 12 minutes after the original post?  Just a bit impatient, are we?  

I would first of all double-check and see if that PAP measurement is correct.  (That's a very extreme measurement!)  Slap a piece of white tape on the ball at that point and see if it stays in place for the first few feet down the lane.

I've also tried the trick of getting your hand as far onto the inside of the ball as possible when holding it, and it didn't help me any.  It just made me basically spin the ball rather than roll it.  Keeping your wrist firmly cupped underneath the ball until your thumb is coming out of it is really the key to getting your revs up and improving ball motion.  I unfortunately suck at this as well and have been stuck wearing a wrist brace for years to compensate.
Logged

Backwards

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 37
Re: Question about a change in PAP
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2009, 07:16:41 AM »
The line that you are using for measurement may not be your first track when releasing the ball.  I'd go check the location of the first oil ring relative to the part of the ball with some track lines.

Good luck
Logged

leftyinsnellville

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2345
Re: Question about a change in PAP
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2009, 07:28:29 AM »
quote:
The line that you are using for measurement may not be your first track when releasing the ball.  I'd go check the location of the first oil ring relative to the part of the ball with some track lines.

Good luck


The Neptune has a fairly low differential and, therefore, doesn't flare a whole lot.  The track was very clear and was at most 2 inches wide.  Even if I adjusted the line to other side of the track all the way around the ball, my pap still would have been significantly shorter and higher than normal.  I'll double-check it tonight by putting a piece of white tape on the new pap.  But assuming that I got the pap correct, what can I expect?  Is this bad?  I guess I'm wondering if I should just go back to throwing it the way I used to rather than trying to increase my revs.
--------------------

ILBT!

( o )( o )

Logged

AngloBowler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 619
Re: Question about a change in PAP
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2009, 07:48:45 AM »
With that kind of PAP I'd expect a ton of length and a pretty mild backend reaction. Usually for someone with such a severe spinner release I would think you'd have to drill similarly as if they were speed dominant.
I would say go back to what you were doing before.
--------------------
Reporting from England
Logged

bluerrpilot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1235
Re: Question about a change in PAP
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2009, 08:10:02 AM »
Your probably spinning the snot out of it. You have your hand in this weird position and need to spin it just to get your hand to clear the ball. You really only need to think of keeping the fingers in a strong position at the point of release and relaxing your hand
--------------------
"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"
Logged

leftyinsnellville

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2345
Re: Question about a change in PAP
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2009, 09:44:22 AM »
I appreciate the replies.  I'll just work harder to stay behind and under the ball rather than going to extremes.  Made my forearm kinda sore anyways.
--------------------

ILBT!

( o )( o )

Logged

nospareball

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 662
Re: Question about a change in PAP
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2009, 10:32:09 AM »
What is the diameter of the new track?
--------------------
-Clint
Logged

leftyinsnellville

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2345
Re: Question about a change in PAP
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2009, 12:19:16 PM »
Looks about the same as it was.  Haven't measured it but it's pretty close to the diameter of the cup of my donkee ball spinner.  The line I traced on the pap was about 1/4 of an inch up from the cup.  Donkee doesn't say what the diameter of the cup is, but here's a link: http://www.donkee.com/spinnerjr.htm
Logged

leftyinsnellville

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2345
Re: Question about a change in PAP
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2009, 01:28:20 PM »
After thinking about the last question relating to diameter of the track on my ball, I got to thinking and drawing a few pictures.  I think the reason my pap is so close and high is because I'm staying behind the ball instead of coming up around it.  This results in a forward roll that's pretty close to end over end.  Does this make sense?
--------------------

ILBT!

( o )( o )

Logged

janderson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2181
Re: Question about a change in PAP
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2009, 01:57:02 PM »
quote:
Your probably spinning the snot out of it.


The closer that PAP comes to your grip center, the closer you are to using your thumb and fingers to make the ball spin like a top.
--------------------
J.J. "Waterola Kid" Anderson - "Better than Jello" - Kill the back row
Logged

leftyinsnellville

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2345
Re: Question about a change in PAP
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2009, 02:03:58 PM »
quote:
quote:
Your probably spinning the snot out of it.


The closer that PAP comes to your grip center, the closer you are to using your thumb and fingers to make the ball spin like a top.
--------------------
J.J. "Waterola Kid" Anderson - "Better than Jello" - Kill the back row


Got it...I'm sure that I must be breaking my wrist and coming over the top and around it then.  Makes perfect sense to me now.  Thanks!

Edited on 1/8/2009 3:04 PM
Logged

dizzyfugu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7608
Re: Question about a change in PAP
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2009, 01:30:37 AM »
With that PAP change, I'd also rather suggest goinmg back where you come from. If your PAP measure is correct, your track diameter should be pretty small - sounds like a spinner release to me, with a long sliding phase and rather mellow back end, unless these are truly dry, then you can get quite a dramatic hook out of this.

I'd guess that you top the ball quite a bit, that you try to generate revs through twisting your wrist from your mentioned outside position of the hand. You do a lot onto the ball, it might even rotate well, but it does not roll because you do not impart horizontal revs through lift of fingers, rather by twisting the ball on a vertical axis.
I am with terplife03: if you really stay behind the ball, you should see a higher track, closer to the finger holes. Hold you wrist firm, and let the ball roll across your fingers, do not force the wrist twist.
--------------------
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

Confused by bowling?
Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section

Bored? Try this: http://www.dancingpaul.com/

Logged
DizzyFugu ~ Reporting from Germany

leftyinsnellville

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2345
Re: Question about a change in PAP
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2009, 09:21:01 AM »
Okay guys, I must have been wrong about the shift in pap.  I settled things down a bit, but still stuck with the method described above to increase my revs a good bit.  This time I checked my pap while I was at the alley looking at the oil rings and confirming with the tape method.  My pap was 4 and 3/8 inches over and 1 and 1/4 inches up.  As this is approximately 1/4 inch longer on the horizontal and 3/4 inch higher on the vertical than my orignial pap when I was throwing with less revolutions, I'm curious if this is an improvment.  I was pleased with the results, but I was throwing a ball I just drilled up that morning, a used Track Rising.  I chose the Rising because the recommended drilling number 1 doesn't factor in the player's pap...you just lay it out the same way for everyone.

So what is the optimal pap location?
--------------------

ILBT!

( o )( o )





Edited on 1/10/2009 10:22 AM
Logged
Pages: [1]
« previous next »