BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: J_w73 on December 30, 2014, 01:04:27 AM
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What ball would you recommend for someone with lower speed, lower tilt(high track) and lower axis rotation.. Looking for something that will be more continuous and not roll forward as soon as the ball hits friction.
for use on medium to medium dry lanes.
any cover and core characteristics to look for?
Was thinking about an Lt-48, hy-road or hy-road pearl with the right layout and surface, one of the melees or ringers.. not sure which.
any recommendations ??
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rolling forward quick is a characteristic of low tilt and rotation. if you want to delay it got for high RG lower diff and a very clean cover. i would look at the wrecker, punch out. but i would suggest trying to adjust the bowlers physical game for more tilt and rotation.
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I am lower axis/tilt, but not low speed (yet). I've found that unless there is a ton of oil out there, high-performance balls are not beneficial to my game. I've found I do best in the conditions that you describe with mid-range balls that are skid/flip for others because nothing is skid/flip for me. The skid will help it get down the lane and the flip ends up being better continuation on the backend. There are exceptions and these have been my results and may not match your results.
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thanks for the info. This is for a teammate of mine. We are definitely looking at weaker covers. I was looking for more rolly cores that had continuation. I was thinking a skid flip ball or layout would want to get into a forward roll too quickly. A lot of my thinking may have to do with where we are bowling though. There is hardly any oil in the heads and the balls tend to start reading as soon as they hit the lane.
I was wondering if the top weight or layout could help as well.. Thinking maybe get a ball with high top weight and lay out the ball in a leverage set up with 1 oz positive side and as much top weight as possible...as the ball flares the top weight will become positive side weight.. and maybe use the weight imbalance to help the ball keep turning some and keep some continuation on the backend??
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I was in the same boat till I learned to increase these points, tilt and axis. Top weight and such don't help much IMO, well very little help. Even covers in today's balls are stronger, again, IMO. I struggled with the Breezes when it got bone dry. Their covers are strong and their cores are so weak and I have a good amount of speed as well.
Learning to increase tilt and axis will help in the long run. But, if we are talking about now, I found working with the balls covers instead of layouts and such was a major factor in helping me battle the dry.
Right now, a ball I'm having success with on dry is the Lord Field Crucial. A pearl cover weaker than a Vibe and breeze, and a core bigger than a breeze. I don't really get the skid flip, Rather a urethane look. I get the length and the continuation through the pins.
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Sometimes ya gotta throw it better instead of searching for a unicorn.
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Sometimes ya gotta throw it better instead of searching for a unicorn.
For awhile I was looking for that Unicorn but it was an Never ending story... ;)
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Good to see some posts in this thread about the real issue changing technique rather than a piece of equipment. Good ball fit will also help in changing tilt and axis rotation.
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Good to see some posts in this thread about the real issue changing technique rather than a piece of equipment. Good ball fit will also help in changing tilt and axis rotation.
I hear ya, but I'm not the one throwing the ball. All his stuff got stolen so he needs to get a new ball. I'm just trying to give the guy a chance to score with the release he has right now. I've also suggested that he get his fit checked and re-measured.
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thanks for the info. This is for a teammate of mine. We are definitely looking at weaker covers. I was looking for more rolly cores that had continuation. I was thinking a skid flip ball or layout would want to get into a forward roll too quickly. A lot of my thinking may have to do with where we are bowling though. There is hardly any oil in the heads and the balls tend to start reading as soon as they hit the lane.
rolly cores will just exacerbate the problem. skid flip balls and layouts are skid flip because they delay the hook and roll phase. also top and side weight are called static weights for a reason. they dont do anything. so a layout with more or less of those things wont change anything. popular misconception
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thanks for the info. This is for a teammate of mine. We are definitely looking at weaker covers. I was looking for more rolly cores that had continuation. I was thinking a skid flip ball or layout would want to get into a forward roll too quickly. A lot of my thinking may have to do with where we are bowling though. There is hardly any oil in the heads and the balls tend to start reading as soon as they hit the lane.
rolly cores will just exacerbate the problem. skid flip balls and layouts are skid flip because they delay the hook and roll phase. also top and side weight are called static weights for a reason. they dont do anything. so a layout with more or less of those things wont change anything. popular misconception
With a strong release, I agree that the static weights have little to do with affecting ball motion. But when someone has slow speed and a ball that is pretty much rolling most of the way down the lane, I think side weight is going to help the ball turn or at least continue to turn. And I know it isn't going to turn hard.. just gradual. But any turn is a help.
From what I know the flip part is created from the ball transitioning from skid to roll quickly, thus having a short hook phase. I want to delay the hook phase and make it as long as possible. He has a fringe and that ball rolls out too quickly for him.
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You found the unicorn, the magic side weight.
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Surface dictates all and the less the bowler creates the less the piece of equipment matters...plain & simple...zero axis rotation creates zero reaction
Slow ball speed basically means the bowling balls,ows down too fast..not the static weights or top weights...this isn't chasing a unicorn this is chasing a dead unicorn...and beating it when you find it
I understand needing a quick fix but this is generally the issue of too many bowlers...looking for a band aid after having open heart surgery
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Surface dictates all and the less the bowler creates the less the piece of equipment matters...plain & simple...zero axis rotation creates zero reaction
Slow ball speed basically means the bowling balls,ows down too fast..not the static weights or top weights...this isn't chasing a unicorn this is chasing a dead unicorn...and beating it when you find it
I understand needing a quick fix but this is generally the issue of too many bowlers...looking for a band aid after having open heart surgery
I am not talking about a pro or even a "good" release. I am talking about someone just rolling the ball down the lane with little to no revs and very little rotation. See the video below and please explain. I don't agree with some of this posters other videos on layouts and such but this video does make sense. Unless you think it is a flawed test.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytCt9TtTmI4
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Mike and Ric the just crack me up..hahaha
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For starters I worked for Brunswick and we did ACTUAL testing and this video is NOT even remotely close to factual...second of all, the excuse of he's not a pro or good release...this is nothing more than an excuse...
Good bowlers find solutions the rest find excuses
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These videos are exactly what's wrong with the Internet...anyone can post anything and someone will always believe it
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For starters I worked for Brunswick and we did ACTUAL testing and this video is NOT even remotely close to factual...second of all, the excuse of he's not a pro or good release...this is nothing more than an excuse...
Good bowlers find solutions the rest find excuses
thank you for that. I have asked before about this video and no one has ever commented. What do you think the flaw is in the test to make it not factual? Is it a faked test and they are doing something else that they are not showing?
No one said that this bowler is good or ever will be good. You are forgetting that many people bowl for fun and may not have the ability(age, disability, or whatever) to make the ball do "tricks" off their hand. There are people that bowl that just dump the ball onto the lane because that is all they can do. But getting more strikes always makes the game more fun. And if getting a little more motion helps create more strikes, then that is what I'm trying to do.
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Rise of the Phoenix!!!!!
I believe USBC has a video using the throw bot to show the effects of too much side weight. In reality you get one ounce. So with out trying the same video using one ounce of side weight its not beneficial to our reality.
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Bowling balls are designed to enhance a bowlers attributes thus if the bowler does nothing then what can the bowler expect the bowling ball to do? There is no magic here it simple physics...if an object (bowling ball) is rolling end over end how can it change direction?
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Bowling balls are designed to enhance a bowlers attributes thus if the bowler does nothing then what can the bowler expect the bowling ball to do? There is no magic here it simple physics...if an object (bowling ball) is rolling end over end how can it change direction?
I appreciate your knowledge. What cover, core, and layout would you recommend to retain what tilt and rotation the bowler does have. For arguments sake, let's say 5 degrees of tilt, and 30 degrees of rotation.
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Polish what he's got and spend the money in the bar.
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If he's got low ball speed, possibly go down in weight to help increase ball speed which is vital on today's conditions...then a 5" pin or so to pap...plus a clean cover low diff core
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If he's got low ball speed, possibly go down in weight to help increase ball speed which is vital on today's conditions...then a 5" pin or so to pap...plus a clean cover low diff core
So a 5" pin to pap to reduce the flare? Would you suggest pin down to smooth out the reaction or pin closer to the VAL? Some were saying to go with a more skid flip ball/reaction but I was thinking that is the opposite of what we are trying to do.
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Bowling balls are designed to enhance a bowlers attributes thus if the bowler does nothing then what can the bowler expect the bowling ball to do? There is no magic here it simple physics...if an object (bowling ball) is rolling end over end how can it change direction?
So you are saying that 1 oz of side weight is not enough to influence the motion of a ball in a roll going down the lane?
Is the video flawed because it uses 3 oz of side weight and that is not legal?
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Rise of the Phoenix!!!!!
I believe USBC has a video using the throw bot to show the effects of too much side weight. In reality you get one ounce. So with out trying the same video using one ounce of side weight its not beneficial to our reality.
I remember this video. Do you happen to have a link?
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Try usbc website I believe its there
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Keep it basic...pick the proper weight and proper cover to CREATE the proper desired reaction...there is NO magic static weight or layout...