Another awesome seminar is up from Mo Pinel if you haven’t seen it yet.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sbU5Rcmab8E

Some awesome info and more Mo’isms for the bowling community to comment upon.

I do enjoy his thoughts on the game.

While what Mo says always has merit, his tendency is typically to use methods that maximize the specs of any given ball. Pin down layouts will always serve a purpose for bowlers wanting to create a specific reaction that falls outside the expectations of what Mo is trying to achieve with the numbers. Its not a perfect science, and there are way too many variables in the bowling world to make any blanket statements about anything.

So why would you NOT want to "maximize the specs" of a bowling ball. Why would you want to cripple it?

Maximizing and crippling are not the only options. It's not like if you don't drill every ball 3-3/4*20 you're crippling the ball.

So why would you NOT want to "maximize the specs" of a bowling ball. Why would you want to cripple it?

This is the mentality you get from people when Mo gives you a biased opinion vs what the numbers, software, and even throwbot shows you. If undrilled the ball diff is .055 and after drilling pin up is .060 and pin down is .050 did you cripple anything? Considering we are talking about a difference of .010 and thats measured in 100 and 1000ths of an inch. What does that really mean in ball reaction? Very little.

Any deviation from 3 3/8" pin to pap leads to a decrease in flare. That doesn't mean crippling ball reaction it means a change in flare and ball shape. How the ball reacts. If the pin is up or down isn't going to matter as much as the pin to pap. Blueprint shows this, thorwbot even shows this. The flare difference is very minimal when comparing any same pin to pap distance when up or down.

In this video on the low rev player pin down goes longer then snaps then pin up.....then for the 300 and 400 rev bowler the pin up and pin down are on top of each other.. At 600 rpms the pin down ball is actually hooking more/sooner. The throwbot could easily get further left with this ball and cover more board then the pin up.....On no the horror of such crippling ball reaction.

In the video, it said that the suggested new layouts were based on a 5 inch PAP and to adjust the drill angle for a different horizontal number.

My PAP is 4 - 3/8 right and 5/8 up.   What adjustment should I make for the suggested drill angles?

Is it a constant adjustment to all of the symmetrical and asymmetrical layouts or does it change for each one?   

Thanks for any replies.

What ball is it for,  what condition,  what style bowler?  Lot of variables to factor.  The biggest thing I focus on is pin to pap,  second is mb placement if the ball is asymmetric.

Thanks for the replies, Ignitebowling and Speeddemon.

What I saw in the video linked above, where Mo is showing off their new drill layouts for both symmetric and asymmetric balls, there was a statement under the layout choices.

This is about 43:15 into it:

TRUE SYMMETRIC

This chart uses a 5" horizontal axis co-ordinate.  Adjust the drilling angle for other horizontal co-ordinates.  Always use the pin to PAP distance and VAL angle to get the desired ball motion.

Quote from: MI 2 AZ on October 21, 2019, 12:47:24 AM

Thanks for the replies, Ignitebowling and Speeddemon.

What I saw in the video linked above, where Mo is showing off their new drill layouts for both symmetric and asymmetric balls, there was a statement under the layout choices.

This is about 43:15 into it:

TRUE SYMMETRIC

This chart uses a 5" horizontal axis co-ordinate.  Adjust the drilling angle for other horizontal co-ordinates.  Always use the pin to PAP distance and VAL angle to get the desired ball motion.

Then below that and while talking he says the drill angle doesn't matter on a symmetric because the end results will be somewhere near the thumb. The drill angle only moves the cg location on a symmetric ball.

So when you see the pics of the layout and you have the proshop lay the ball out for your pap and it has a horizontal distance of 3.5"s and a vertical distance of 1/2" up it will look different from the ball pictured in the videos or diagrams with a 5" horizontal axis point. It doesn't mean it isn't correct, it is the correct layout based off of your pap vs the example. It is just referencing the pap used in the examples.

Thanks for the reply.

I understand all of that, but is that why Mo says the drill angle doesn't matter because you will be adjusting it to compensate for a different horizontal distance?  If so, then how do you figure out what the drill angle is for a set horizontal distance like 4 - 3/8?  If it doesn't matter, then why did he post that statement about adjusting it?  Why not just say, use these numbers and only adjust the drill angle when you have to place the pin further away than one inch from the fingers?

Just trying to figure out what that statement actually meant.  I probably tend to over think things based on a technical background.

Here, let me give this a shot.

All drill sheets are just points of reference, and have to have some sort of made up pap to show what the layout might be, but they're just points of reference, so that when the guy that wants layout xyz from the drill sheet doesn't come in and say "You screwed up! My ball doesn't look like the drill sheet." even though the sheet shows the layout for a pap which is 5x0 and his pap is 3.5x1