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Author Topic: Ball or release changes needed for soldier 7 pins!  (Read 3754 times)

Jesse James

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Ball or release changes needed for soldier 7 pins!
« on: February 19, 2022, 04:53:02 PM »
I am a right handed stroker with relatively slow speed. 13.35-14.30mph

I tend to leave a lot of 7 pins in games. What is the adjustment or move that I can make to alleviate this?
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avabob

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Re: Ball or release changes needed for soldier 7 pins!
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2022, 06:14:08 PM »
What kind of 7s.  Half pocket or high flush.  High flush r here is no good answer.  Half pocket usually comes from ball burning out and coming in late.  Ball gets the 5 but not hard enough to push into the 7.

StraightBall

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Re: Ball or release changes needed for soldier 7 pins!
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2022, 09:19:27 PM »
What hand position change can you do? If you have that tool available, I would try small changes in my wrist angle to create more wrist cock. This should create a small change in entry angle. If that doesn’t work for you, more speed is always an option.

Jesse James

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Re: Ball or release changes needed for soldier 7 pins!
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2022, 08:28:05 AM »
@avabob mine generally are half pocket hits.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I will try the wrist cock change since this leave has come about after I changed to a rigid wrist brace to help alleviate pain from bowling.

I know it is something small and minute change wise, but it is very annoying.

Thanks again guys.
Some days you're the bug....some days you're the windshield...that's bowling!

Remmah

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Re: Ball or release changes needed for soldier 7 pins!
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2022, 02:46:23 PM »
With slow ball speed that’s probably something that will continue to annoy you not enough power to push the 5 into the 7 that’s the same hit that holds seniors back

bcw1969

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Re: Ball or release changes needed for soldier 7 pins!
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2022, 10:57:31 AM »
When you are leaving opposite side corner pins all you do for that is start 4 - 6 inches further back on the approach and keep everything else the same, that will stop the 7 pins...conversely, if you find yourself leaving right side corner pins you simply move up on the approach 4-6 inches and keep everything else the same.

Brad

TWOHAND834

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Re: Ball or release changes needed for soldier 7 pins!
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2022, 06:53:37 AM »
I am a right handed stroker with relatively slow speed. 13.35-14.30mph

I tend to leave a lot of 7 pins in games. What is the adjustment or move that I can make to alleviate this?

Is that ball speed at your release or towards the pins?  That makes a huge difference.
What kind of ball are you using and how heavy is it?  Is your ball roll more end over end or does it have a degree of axis rotation to help the ball change directions once it reaches the breakpoint?  I ask because I have a guy on my team that has ball speed around 12.5 - 13.5 (more at the pins) and he shot 259 second game and 630 series last night and earlier in the year shot 300 in a different league.  He is using a 14# Zen because the oil volume the first 25-30 feet is fairly heavy and he has a decent amount of axis tilt which promotes push.  If you are using a ball that rolls too quickly and doesnt have enough pop on the backend, it wont have the energy to hit and drive through the pins.  Truthfully 14mph is not that slow if we are talking about ball speed at the pins.  So, what ball are you using, what kind of ball roll do you have, and where is that ball speed recorded?
Steven Vance
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Former Classic Products Assistant Manager

avabob

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Re: Ball or release changes needed for soldier 7 pins!
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2022, 12:31:24 PM »
Agree with what Steven says on ball speed.  The main reason for soft 7s and blow out 7-10 sharp entry angle but not enough rotational energy for continuation.  Sometimes a small parallel move to the right will help but if the pattern is a little too wet dry that might not work.

Jesse James

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Re: Ball or release changes needed for soldier 7 pins!
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2022, 01:41:56 PM »


Is that ball speed at your release or towards the pins?  That makes a huge difference.
What kind of ball are you using and how heavy is it?  Is your ball roll more end over end or does it have a degree of axis rotation to help the ball change directions once it reaches the breakpoint?  I ask because I have a guy on my team that has ball speed around 12.5 - 13.5 (more at the pins) and he shot 259 second game and 630 series last night and earlier in the year shot 300 in a different league.  He is using a 14# Zen because the oil volume the first 25-30 feet is fairly heavy and he has a decent amount of axis tilt which promotes push.  If you are using a ball that rolls too quickly and doesnt have enough pop on the backend, it wont have the energy to hit and drive through the pins.  Truthfully 14mph is not that slow if we are talking about ball speed at the pins.  So, what ball are you using, what kind of ball roll do you have, and where is that ball speed recorded?
[/quote]

Thanks all for the input and suggestions!

My ball speed is measured down lane where the cameras are located. As for what ball I am using, that's hard to tell. I use a little bit of everything. I will say this however, I tend to get a lot of 7 pins in a Bowl America house in VA, whose lanes always seem to develop over/under characteristics as the night goes on. In that house I use a 716C, a Bonus solid, Bonus pearl, a Vapor Zone hybrid, Paradox Black and a Katana Dragon on occasion.

I also will change release depending on how my leaves present themselves as the night goes on. I am distinctly rev dominant versus speed dominant.

On the fresh I tend do go up the back of the ball to start and then add rotation as I see fit.

I've had the most success using the Paradox Black with surface to eliminate the problem. Trouble is.....I tend to tear up the pattern and hurt my teammates when I use it.

When I play down and in, I tend to lean on the ball a little more and rarely have this issue. It's when I move in deeper to 3rd and 4th arrow and become a true stroker that I develop the 7 pin issue.
Some days you're the bug....some days you're the windshield...that's bowling!

TWOHAND834

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Re: Ball or release changes needed for soldier 7 pins!
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2022, 02:45:49 PM »


Is that ball speed at your release or towards the pins?  That makes a huge difference.
What kind of ball are you using and how heavy is it?  Is your ball roll more end over end or does it have a degree of axis rotation to help the ball change directions once it reaches the breakpoint?  I ask because I have a guy on my team that has ball speed around 12.5 - 13.5 (more at the pins) and he shot 259 second game and 630 series last night and earlier in the year shot 300 in a different league.  He is using a 14# Zen because the oil volume the first 25-30 feet is fairly heavy and he has a decent amount of axis tilt which promotes push.  If you are using a ball that rolls too quickly and doesnt have enough pop on the backend, it wont have the energy to hit and drive through the pins.  Truthfully 14mph is not that slow if we are talking about ball speed at the pins.  So, what ball are you using, what kind of ball roll do you have, and where is that ball speed recorded?

Thanks all for the input and suggestions!

My ball speed is measured down lane where the cameras are located. As for what ball I am using, that's hard to tell. I use a little bit of everything. I will say this however, I tend to get a lot of 7 pins in a Bowl America house in VA, whose lanes always seem to develop over/under characteristics as the night goes on. In that house I use a 716C, a Bonus solid, Bonus pearl, a Vapor Zone hybrid, Paradox Black and a Katana Dragon on occasion.

I also will change release depending on how my leaves present themselves as the night goes on. I am distinctly rev dominant versus speed dominant.

On the fresh I tend do go up the back of the ball to start and then add rotation as I see fit.

I've had the most success using the Paradox Black with surface to eliminate the problem. Trouble is.....I tend to tear up the pattern and hurt my teammates when I use it.

When I play down and in, I tend to lean on the ball a little more and rarely have this issue. It's when I move in deeper to 3rd and 4th arrow and become a true stroker that I develop the 7 pin issue.
[/quote]

Good info that makes what your issue is more clear.  So your ball speed at release is closer to 16mph.  So ball speed is not the root cause for your 7 pins.  It is proper entry angle.  Sounds like the issue is that you dont have a ball that will go sideways on the backend when you have to move deeper and need that extra entry angle to drive through the pins.  I am not familiar with the Katana Dragon but most everything else is more designed for control.  Chances are the balls you have for playing inside are rolling a little too quick and therefore coming into the pocket too flat.  You are missing that ball like a Wolverine, Spectre, RST-X2, or anything else with a mid to high RG and higher differential to help cover some boards on the backend of the lane.  The only guys that can really get away with ball like the Vapor Zone and Bonus line from deeper angles are heavy handed guys (rev rate over 400) that can help make the ball change direction.  Since you do not have that kind of rev rate, you need a ball to help do the work for you.  Be willing to bet on half pocket hits your ball hits the pins and deflects towards the 9 pin due to loss of energy instead of driving through towards the 8 pin.  IMO...you just need something with a little more flip on the backend.
Steven Vance
Former Pro Shop Operator
Former Classic Products Assistant Manager

Jesse James

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Re: Ball or release changes needed for soldier 7 pins!
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2022, 12:45:48 PM »
[quote author

Good info that makes what your issue is more clear.  So your ball speed at release is closer to 16mph.  So ball speed is not the root cause for your 7 pins.  It is proper entry angle.  Sounds like the issue is that you dont have a ball that will go sideways on the backend when you have to move deeper and need that extra entry angle to drive through the pins.  I am not familiar with the Katana Dragon but most everything else is more designed for control.  Chances are the balls you have for playing inside are rolling a little too quick and therefore coming into the pocket too flat.  You are missing that ball like a Wolverine, Spectre, RST-X2, or anything else with a mid to high RG and higher differential to help cover some boards on the backend of the lane.  The only guys that can really get away with ball like the Vapor Zone and Bonus line from deeper angles are heavy handed guys (rev rate over 400) that can help make the ball change direction.  Since you do not have that kind of rev rate, you need a ball to help do the work for you.  Be willing to bet on half pocket hits your ball hits the pins and deflects towards the 9 pin due to loss of energy instead of driving through towards the 8 pin.  IMO...you just need something with a little more flip on the backend.
[/quote]

Thanks again for the input Twohand834!

I will definitely look into a ball change for this condition. I just have to sort through my library to find the "ONE"! LOL. I appreciate your help!
Some days you're the bug....some days you're the windshield...that's bowling!