Author Topic: Ball Speed Affects What??? (Read 4986 times)

dicnic · « **on:** June 21, 2008, 07:50:52 AM »

First off, where does the Quibeca speed measuring take place? Up front or close to the pin deck?

Secondly, how much difference in carry does it make throwing faster or slower?

Some of the hot shots throw really fast and part of the time they splat the pins all over the place. Sometimes, they leave weird spares, too.

Is there an optimum speed for different weight balls? I have not seen any speed studies anywhere. Lots of information on entry angle, ball rotation etc. but no speed comparisons.

For example, assuming entry angle, ball rotation, ball weight etc. etc. identical, does a faster thrown ball work better or slower?

This old phart wants to know!!
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tenpin477 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 21, 2008, 03:52:06 PM »

It depends on revs.

If your a higher rev player, you generally need more ball speed. If your a lower rev player, you don't want as much ball speed. Those hot shots who you see throw it really fast also probably throw pretty big hooks im guessing.

Locke · « **Reply #2 on:** June 21, 2008, 04:13:05 PM »

the speed recording takes place about 5 feet before the pins. Also there is not real point in throwing the ball faster than 17 mph at the pins because any faster and your ball is actually moving through to quickly and not giving as much pin action.
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scadreau · « **Reply #3 on:** June 21, 2008, 07:30:59 PM »

Ball speed affects where the breakpoint is. Higher ball speed gives a later breakpoint and lower ball speed moves the breakpoint closer to the foul line.

If you only bowl a house shot, then controlling ball speed is not that important. If you bowl PBAx/Sport shots, the ability to control your ball speed can be the difference between scoring and not.

Generally the higher the ball speed the more pin action (simple rules of inertia/physics).

Hogsharley · « **Reply #4 on:** June 21, 2008, 07:37:33 PM »

quote:
First off, where does the Quibeca speed measuring take place? Up front or close to the pin deck?

Good question. I was wondering also. I was bowling in a Quibeca house yesterday and my speed was between 14 and 16 mph. Say if it's 15 mph 5 feet before the pin deck, about what speed would it be at release?
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Dan Belcher · « **Reply #5 on:** June 21, 2008, 07:39:18 PM »

Something to remember about Qubica speed measurements: it's based on the time it takes for the ball to go from point A to point B. If you're hooking it a lot, it takes longer for the ball to get from the front to the back through that part of the lane because it's going at a bigger angle. Also, friction means the ball is going to slow down and hook more, so hooking it on dry lanes, you may have more speed off your hand, but a slower Qubica speed measurement than if you're playing down and in on oily lanes. When I'm hooking it and throwing it pretty hard, my Qubica speed is usually around 16.5mph while playing direct up the boards on heavier conditions with just medium speed I end up around 16.5 to 17mph. It's not a perfect system, but it is good for comparing consistency between consecutive shots.

Juggernaut · « **Reply #6 on:** June 21, 2008, 07:44:35 PM »

Speed affect EVERYTHING. A balls ability to transition throughout the skid/roll/hook phases is all a property of friction.

The more friction, the faster the transition phases come into play. The less friction, the slower the transition phases will come into play.

Now, accepting that the oil pattern is always the same, and the ball surface you are using is the same, the speed at which you throw the ball will determine where and when your ball will transition from one aspect to another.

If you throw the ball TOO hard, the ball will transition too little, too late. But if you throw it too SLOW, the ball will transition too early and lose its energy before it reaches the proper position.

That is why ball and surface matchups can be SO critical to scoring. You can have the right ball with the wrong surface and be just as bad as having the wrong ball.

Take a ball you have now. If you throw it at your natural speed and it goes too long, you have a couple of options. You can dull the surface ( to increase friction quality of the coverstock ), or you can slow down your speed to allow the extra time the ball needs to transition properly. In an ideal world, you would have the surface of the ball at the proper grit to allow it to have the right amount of friction so that you can use your natural speed and still get the ball to transition properly.

In general,the faster your ball speed, the more friction you can use. Conversely, the slower your speed, the less friction you will need. But, those basic statements DO NOT allow for differences in oil levels from one playing surface to another.
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Hogsharley · « **Reply #7 on:** June 21, 2008, 07:50:11 PM »

quote:
Something to remember about Qubica speed measurements: it's based on the time it takes for the ball to go from point A to point B. If you're hooking it a lot, it takes longer for the ball to get from the front to the back through that part of the lane because it's going at a bigger angle. Also, friction means the ball is going to slow down and hook more, so hooking it on dry lanes, you may have more speed off your hand, but a slower Qubica speed measurement than if you're playing down and in on oily lanes. When I'm hooking it and throwing it pretty hard, my Qubica speed is usually around 16.5mph while playing direct up the boards on heavier conditions with just medium speed I end up around 16.5 to 17mph. It's not a perfect system, but it is good for comparing consistency between consecutive shots.

Thanks Dan. So Qubica's ball speed is more of an average of the entire lenght on the lane. So if my speed is 15mph on Qubica, it's safe to assume that I'm about 16 at the line and about 14 at the deck...give or take.
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Dan Belcher · « **Reply #8 on:** June 21, 2008, 08:21:49 PM »

I think the speed is calculated just before the pindeck on a small area, so you can probably assume your hand speed is around 2mph higher than the Qubica speed, if I remember correctly.

Locke · « **Reply #9 on:** June 21, 2008, 08:59:49 PM »

That is correct. You add about 2 mph to your speed for the speed at release for just about any speed measurement.
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dizzyfugu · « **Reply #10 on:** June 23, 2008, 07:43:41 AM »

quote:
It depends on revs.

If your a higher rev player, you generally need more ball speed. If your a lower rev player, you don't want as much ball speed. Those hot shots who you see throw it really fast also probably throw pretty big hooks im guessing.

Exact. Speed is not relevant by itself, nor are revs relevant - you need a sound revs/speed ratio. If you play fast but generate enough revs, things are O.K. You just need a ball that rolls forward in the moment when it enters the pins - that's an effective ball with maximum energy, regardless of the player's style. A good measure is a balance of hand revs and your speed in mph.

Besides, too much speed like Locke mentions is detrimental - the ball will move through the pin deck too fast, leaving the pins less time to mix and take them out themselves. A fast ball, especially one that does not roll (see above), will also tend to splatter the pins in any direction - even upwards. While it looks spectacular, it is again ineffective, because low pins mix better and you receive a better carry percentage. Again, a rolling ball that comes in neither in a too high or low entry angle is the most effective one.
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Edited on 6/23/2008 7:44 AM

Author Topic: Ball Speed Affects What??? (Read 4986 times)

dicnic

Ball Speed Affects What???

tenpin477

Re: Ball Speed Affects What???

Locke

Re: Ball Speed Affects What???

scadreau

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Hogsharley

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Dan Belcher

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Juggernaut

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Hogsharley

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Dan Belcher

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Locke

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dizzyfugu

Re: Ball Speed Affects What???