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Author Topic: Ball Speed vs Ball Weight  (Read 5759 times)

Re-Evolution

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Ball Speed vs Ball Weight
« on: March 11, 2007, 01:59:18 AM »
Let me start by saying I was bored and decided to post something that might make some people go HMMM.

I often see people talking about ball speed vs ball weight and it seems that people always say if you want more ball speed you should use a lighter ball.
Well I have a problem with this statement for a couple of reasons.

Reducing ball weight will only increase your speed if you use muscle to generate. If you have a free swing the speed will increase with a heavier ball this is due to simple physics. There are other reasons that a reduction in weight could cause a slower ball speed but I will save them for later if anyone would like to hear more.
 
This statement also goes against the free pendulum swing that is taught. By telling someone to drop weight to increase speed you are indirectly telling them that muscle is used to create ball speed. This is not true and muscle can actually reduce ball speed due to a slower release.

I guess what I am trying to say is use the maximum speed that comes naturally from your swing arc in a pendulum swing and tweak the total ball speed with address position (ball height), foot speed, release and proper timing not ball weight. Select ball weight based on comfort and control.

2 more cents:
Since all balls have the same volume/area and roughly the same surface friction to air/drag coefficient the ball with the most mass/weight will fall the fastest. This is cause the speed that gravity will cause a ball to fall/accelerate is a direct correlation of the volume to mass ratio. According to what I have found in a brief study the acceleration rate and terminal velocity of an 8# ball is roughly 70% of a 16# ball. We are dealing with a very short time period for this accelration to occur and a none linear motion so the difference in speed would be minimal but it is there none the less.
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bgh

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Re: Ball Speed vs Ball Weight
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2007, 11:30:35 AM »
Agree.  Another hidden danger in dropping weights - forced muscled faster ball speed = naturally more revs (unless one opts for a weaker release).  aka from Ron Clifton's speed adjustment article - BTM: The Adjustment Toolbox March 07 issue.
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Edited on 3/11/2007 12:33 PM
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Slopsurprise

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Re: Ball Speed vs Ball Weight
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2007, 11:32:00 AM »
Great post and I have always kind of shook my head when someone says the are going to a 14 for more speed. What you have said basically is about the same theorys I had in my head and I was considering a move up to 16 becasue I am a bit rev dominant.
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Slopsurprise

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Re: Ball Speed vs Ball Weight
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2007, 11:33:42 AM »
quote:
Agree.  Another hidden danger in dropping weights - faster ball speed = naturally more revs (unless one opts for a weaker release).  aka from Ron Clifton's BTM ball speed adjustment article Toolbox March 07 issue.
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K``  K ``X ``````X  
K` K  `` ``X```X    
KK   ```` ``` X    
K` K ``  ``X`` X    
K `` K` X ````` X  
>>>SKJ: 1/4 Blog,1/4 Journal,1/4 E-Zine,1/4 Bowling Think Tank<<<


I had a 14 a while back and I noticed it did have a few more turns in it compared to my 15 arsenal. Sounds like since I am a bit rev dominant, 16's might be an idea.
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themagician

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Re: Ball Speed vs Ball Weight
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2007, 11:36:41 AM »
The only times I agree with more speed from droppig weight is when an older person or sometimes a kid, are throwing balls that are dragging them all over the place and causing them to get wore out and not be in any control.

In a situation like that a drop is weight can help as you can control the swing and be able to get the free swing that developes the ball speed they are looking for.

But I do see what you guys are saying and it puzzles me when somebody says I needed more speed so I dropped weight.
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Jepp114

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Re: Ball Speed vs Ball Weight
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2007, 11:38:11 AM »
Well... A lighter ball will go faster because it is not weighing down on lanes as much as a heavier ball. To get a real answer, get one of those things that allow to the ball to roll onto the lane, one of those ramps, and then use it on lanes that have a speed detector. Take two balls, drilled the same, but one of them one pound lighter. I beleive the lighter ball will be faster because its not pushing on the lane as hard as the heaver one. The heavier ball will be faster initially but the friction on the lane will make it overall slower. That's just my theory, so don't hold me to it.

Edited on 3/11/2007 12:36 PM
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bgh

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Re: Ball Speed vs Ball Weight
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2007, 11:45:08 AM »
Just wanted to clarify a few things:  

If one generates a real dramatic pushaway sometimes a lighter object (aka 14 vs 15 vs 16 pound) will be set into motion faster; thus faster ball speed. This would somewhat be labeled as Forced. If one opts for drop away or has very little push down of the ball - then it is really not a factor - not a true pendulum swing.  On a medium pushaway and true pendulum swing the heavier ball - should create more speed (in a vaccum physics experiment = more mass)
All of this is generalization, of course. There are exceptions.

I think John Jowdy's method of up and over the bar pushaway would tend to give the bowler a more pendulum type (free) swing.  Giving, naturally more velocity to the arc of the swing.

I corrected my original posted - to muscled forced - not a true pendulum swing.
sorry for the confusion. Most of the tall larger muscular bowlers can rarely generate a true pendulum swing because of the muscle mass generally will get in their way.

No expert on the subject; always the student of this game (I really enjoy Think Tank type posts) - Please refer to that BTM Ron Clifton article - about speed, the whole Toolbox series in BTM should be required reading.








Edited on 3/11/2007 1:15 PM
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Slopsurprise

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Re: Ball Speed vs Ball Weight
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2007, 12:12:00 PM »
quote:

I corrected my original posted - to muscled forced - not a true pendulum swing.
sorry for the confusion. Most of the tall larger muscular bowlers can rarely generate a true pendulum swing because of the muscle mass generally will get in their way.

Edited on 3/11/2007 1:03 PM


And this is why I am rev dominant. I have a free arm swing but, do to my build, I am not able to generate a higher backswing so, to keep my arm swing free I need a small pendulum. I have been kicking around the 16 Lb idea to either increase speed or to take a few revs off. What do you think? Or I have been also kicking around the idea of trying to open my shoulders way up so, I can get a bigger backswing.

Edited on 3/11/2007 1:10 PM
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DukeHarding

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Re: Ball Speed vs Ball Weight
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2007, 03:36:53 PM »
quote:

Reducing ball weight will only increase your speed if you use muscle to generate. If you have a free swing the speed will increase with a heavier ball this is due to simple physics. There are other reasons that a reduction in weight could cause a slower ball speed but I will save them for later if anyone would like to hear more.


Sean,

Your theory is correct.

But, most bowlers do not have an un-muscled swing.

I've thrown 14-15-16 pounds through the years. Lighter balls are easier to turn/spin/crank, upon release...which will give a bowler more length (depending upon your timing/cadence, etc.) There are so many variables that you really can't make a hard and fast rule, like you could with the physics of a ball being rolled down a ramp, or with a throwbot.

I could never carry the corners with a 14# ball. I'm used to 15#, and have toyed with the idea of going up to 16# again, for shots with heavier oil. My laydown point is earlier with a 16# ball, and I roll the ball more, stay under it better.

I've used 14# spare balls, which I would hold at shoulder height, and basically throw at single pin spares...I always muscled lighter equipment...

I think the David Ozios, Norm Dukes, and Brian Vosses, of the world would see, more length and speed with heavier equipment.

Just my .02...
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