Author Topic: Ball speed vs. ball weight vs. free armswing (Read 4064 times)

Splitz · « **on:** May 07, 2003, 03:57:30 PM »

Just wondering about things I've read about a free armswing.

If you don't have a free armswing, and I don't, then it would be believable that the lighter the ball the faster the speed because of muscle power.

Given the same backswing height and a free armswing I would expect no difference in ball speed for any weight because physics suggests that weight has no bearing on the speed of free fall if the difference in air friction (and in this case shoulder rotation resistance) is negligible.

I have read over and over about people saying that a lighter ball will increase ball speed. So does this mean that no one has a free armswing? Is this one of these terms that people will use as a joke years from now?

I was trying to look at practice goals for this summer and I would hate to waste time trying to develop a free-er armswing if it is just an illusion.

Rock77 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 08, 2003, 07:09:04 AM »

Having a free armswing rather than "muscling" your armswing will result in what I consider to be one of the most important aspects of your game, consistency!! No matter what weight ball you throw, the ball speed will be determined by how rapidly that particular ball falls with gravity pulling on it. You are merely using your arm as a guide to get the ball on the lane and provide rotation. If anything, I would think a 14 lb ball would fall slower than a 16 lb ball, dont you think?!?

Bjaardker · « **Reply #2 on:** May 08, 2003, 07:12:07 AM »

quote:
Having a free armswing rather than "muscling" your armswing will result in what I consider to be one of the most important aspects of your game, consistency!! No matter what weight ball you throw, the ball speed will be determined by how rapidly that particular ball falls with gravity pulling on it. You are merely using your arm as a guide to get the ball on the lane and provide rotation. If anything, I would think a 14 lb ball would fall slower than a 16 lb ball, dont you think?!?

Nope.

They're both the same size & shape. Meaning same wind resistance

And it's a fact that ALL THINGS fall at the same rate. The force of gravity is consistant no mater what the weight of the object is.

Someone should chime in here soon with the actual math on it.

Bjaardker · « **Reply #3 on:** May 08, 2003, 07:14:17 AM »

Found something that explains it better:

http://www.school-for-champions.com/science/gravity.htm

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Acceleration independent of mass
One surprising characteristic of the force of gravity is that the acceleration it causes in falling bodies it independent of the mass of the object.

In other words, a 5 pound weight would fall at the same rate as a 10 pound weight. If dropped from the same height, they would take the same time to hit the ground. Of course, in dropping a light weight object, air resistance often will slow the object down more than a heavier object.

Not only does is the acceleration of gravity independent of the mass of an object, but it is also independent of the velocity of the object parallel to the ground.

In other words, it an object is traveling at some velocity parallel to the ground, it will fall at the same rate as a stationary object. Thus a bullet shot from a gun will hit the ground at the same time as one that was simply dropped from the same height.

Edited on 5/8/2003 7:12 AM

Bjaardker · « **Reply #4 on:** May 08, 2003, 07:26:07 AM »

Splitz,

I adopted a free-er arm swing about 6 months ago & my scores dropped by about 20 pins a game.

However, after a good month my consistancy has gone WAY up. I am picking up more spares, & I can focus specifically on my release now that the armswing has become so automatic. I can also now control my ballspeed pretty effortlessly. If I need it faster, I simply push off with the ball higher.

It's true that if you have a free armswing a lighter ball doesn't matter. And in actuality after I switched to free armswing I did away with my 14LB spare ball. I found it too easy to put more arm into it & lose my consistancy.

Pinbuster · « **Reply #5 on:** May 08, 2003, 07:33:45 AM »

I believe it is impossible to have a completely muscle free armswing. Muscles are needed to hold onto the ball and muscle are need to rotate the ball.

The key to all this is to use only minimal amounts to control the path, speed, and gripping of the ball and to avoid sudden application of muscle (don't jerk the ball forward). Generally some muscle is applied to accelerate the hand thru the ball at the bottom of the swing and is normally considered a good trait.

Magic Carpet · « **Reply #6 on:** May 08, 2003, 07:55:17 AM »

Very few people have a totally free armswing. You can check yourself if you are able to get your hand in a 12 pound house ball and throw that. Some house balls are drilled big enough that you can sometimes if your hands are on the small side. With the 12 pound ball you will feel just how much muscle you are using because the ball will feel so light. But throw enough shots and you can bring the speed back to normal.
So yes you will tend to throw a lighter ball a little faster when you first pick it up, even if you think you have a free armswing. But as long as you don't pick up a heavy ball for a while the speed will go almost back to normal.
You will tend to turn the lighter ball more RPMs.
One of the dangers of mixing ball weighs is the lighter ball can give you early timing if you accelerate it from the top of the back swing causing you to miss your target...usually to the inside.
Thats one reason I teach people to throw balls straighter at spares instead of throwing the ball harder.

Edited on 5/8/2003 8:02 AM

T-GOD · « **Reply #7 on:** May 08, 2003, 08:13:58 AM »

Splitz, you are absolutely correct.

Nobody has a free armswing today, that has any kind of revs on the ball..!!

As was stated earlier, an object will fall at a specific rate. So, a persons ball speed can only be so much with a "free" armswing. I would guess it to be somewhere around 14 mph. Any ball speed higher than that would have to include "muscling".

There's too much friction with the balls of today and the lane conditions for a bowler to have a free armswing. They would never get the ball down the lane if they had any kind of revs on the ball.

So, everybody has to muscle the ball if they have revs. =:^D

Newbs · « **Reply #8 on:** May 08, 2003, 08:27:40 AM »

I am a rookie bowler, and I've noticed the following:

1. If I don't muscle it, I get NO revs.

2. If I don't muscle it, I leave a lot of splits, thus lowering my scores.

3. If I didn't muscle it in terms of finger lift, I may as well drill my ball conventional.

4. It's a lot more fun to muscle it.

I guess my question now is this: If I put that extra "oomph" into it at release, does this make me a "tweener" instead of a "stroker"?

Splitz · « **Reply #9 on:** May 08, 2003, 08:50:47 AM »

Thanks for all the replies!

I would like to have more consistancy, so I guess working on freeing it up sounds like it is worth the effort. Also thanks for the little tip on missing inside from accelerating the armswing. I've been suffering for the last three weeks with the missing inside syndrom and would love to get back to hitting my mark more often!

Bjaardker · « **Reply #10 on:** May 08, 2003, 08:54:04 AM »

quote:
As was stated earlier, an object will fall at a specific rate. So, a persons ball speed can only be so much with a "free" armswing. I would guess it to be somewhere around 14 mph. Any ball speed higher than that would have to include "muscling".

So, everybody has to muscle the ball if they have revs. =:^D

This is why the push off is so important if using a free armswing technique.

You are supposed push off at the beginning of the free armswing & I think a lot of people forget about that. This adds the extra speed & energy without having to engage the muscles through the swing.

I would refer you to Jowdy's over the bar under the bar technique. It helped me an awful lot with freeing up my swing & getting a good push off.

An interesting note, when I switch to a free armswing I actually INCREASED my speed.

Edited on 5/8/2003 8:54 AM

Rock77 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 08, 2003, 09:17:00 AM »

Bjaardker, you are exactly right. My mistake. I should have remembered that from physics class. Technically speaking, if something is falling it is actually seems weightless and only falls at the rate of which gravity is pulling on it!! Now I remember!! Thanks, and sorry for the confusion!!

Edited on 5/8/2003 9:19 AM

mumzie · « **Reply #12 on:** May 08, 2003, 09:27:07 AM »

I think the confusion here is the terminology.
Of course I have to use muscles to hang on to the ball, to move my arm, etc, etc. The notion of a free armswing is mainly with NOT using the muscles to GUIDE the ball. Let the weight of the ball guide the arm, not the other way around. That is the notion of a free armswing.

Another term for "muscling" is forcing.

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One advantage of bowling over golf
is that you seldom lose the ball.

Author Topic: Ball speed vs. ball weight vs. free armswing (Read 4064 times)

Splitz

Ball speed vs. ball weight vs. free armswing

Rock77

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Bjaardker

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Bjaardker

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Bjaardker

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Pinbuster

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Magic Carpet

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T-GOD

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Newbs

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Splitz

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Bjaardker

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Rock77

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mumzie

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