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Author Topic: Interesting league issue - PROBLEM SOLVED.  (Read 11207 times)

milorafferty

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Interesting league issue - PROBLEM SOLVED.
« on: May 04, 2015, 10:18:03 AM »
I need help understanding where I am wrong here, so maybe one of the experienced league bowlers here can show me the light.


One of my leagues finished our season last night with sweepers, roll-offs, season awards etc. We all received our "pennies" for point money and sweepers. Then the season awards were paid out.


The league is a lower skill level mixed league with a handful of scratch bowlers mixed in on a few teams. The handicap totally favors the higher average bowlers(80% of 200) and on my team I had one vacant(140) and two new bowlers who are really just learning the game. We joined this league as a way for them to get better and have a good introduction to the game. This is a league where if you won every point and award, you still only have lunch money.


OK, now the problem I have trouble understanding. One bowler, Gary, had the high scratch series at 811 and none of the handicap bowlers had a handicap series that was higher. The closest was a 772 scratch series and with handicap it came to 806. The league paid the 806 as the season high series winner. This baffles me to no end, however, it gets better.


I had the only scratch 300 game in the league this season. The closest to me was another scratch bowler who shot a 298. The league paid out the 298 as the high game for the season. The closest true handicap bowler high game was 290, but that bowler didn't win anything.


When I questioned the league secretary and president about this, they both immediately said "that's just the way they do it here".


I've ran this through my mind since last night and just can not see a way that this is valid.


Am I missing something??? The league doesn't use a negative handicap, so Gary's 811 was actually the high handicap series and my 300 was the high handicap game. I'm confused.


 
« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 03:52:24 PM by milorafferty »
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Aloarjr810

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Re: Interesting league issue - PROBLEM SOLVED.
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2015, 04:27:19 PM »
Just to go with this for later reference:
 From the  USBC Rules Dept.

Question:
If a league has only awards for handicap scores, Are the scores of a player with a zero(0) handicap still eligible to win the High handicap awards?

Example:
A scratch bowler with a zero(0) handicap has 300 game which is the highest game in the league.
The 2nd place score is a scratch 298 (0 hdcp pins) and the 3rd place is a 270 (with X number of handicap pins).

Who gets the high game handicap award?

xxxx

Answer from the USBC:

xxxx,

Bowlers who do not receive handicap in a handicapped league are eligible for league handicap awards. The scores are considered as bowled with zero handicap.   

Should you have questions please feel free to contact us by responding to this email. 

Sincerely,

Kathy Andersen
Rules Counselor
Rules/Bonding
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Good Times Good Times

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Re: Interesting league issue - PROBLEM SOLVED.
« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2015, 09:22:37 AM »
Quote from: milorafferty on May 04, 2015, 04:02:30 PM
Quote from: Good Times Good Times on May 04, 2015, 03:54:43 PM
Quote from: milorafferty on May 04, 2015, 03:52:03 PM
The league secretary just called me. It seems there was a mix up somewhere along the line when the prize payouts were being created. She was very contrite about the entire situation. The situation has been resolved to my satisfaction.

Good.  I was wondering WTF was going on.....I guess it didn't make sense b/c......it didn't make sense!   :P

She was just going off the league sheet as it was listed. The league doesn't pay the scratch awards and all season Gary and I were both listed for the handicap game and series highs and the two bowlers who were given the awards were listed as scratch. For some reason, the last week, the listings got reversed to where Gary and I were listed as scratch and the other two were handicap. So she automatically paid out the handicap winners as the league rules state.

She mentioned that the league has never had this issue before, so she didn't really think about what I was asking about at the time.

 I'm curious how the league sheet changed on the last week. As someone who writes computer programs for a living, I find it odd that something like that would change on it's own.

Though the solution has been found and all is well, it still does make me think back to "well that's just how we do it here" from your league officers..........the question being, what is "it"?  Did they essentially just form English words together just to make you go away?
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milorafferty

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Re: Interesting league issue - PROBLEM SOLVED.
« Reply #33 on: May 05, 2015, 09:56:04 AM »
Quote from: Good Times Good Times on May 05, 2015, 09:22:37 AM

Though the solution has been found and all is well, it still does make me think back to "well that's just how we do it here" from your league officers..........the question being, what is "it"?  Did they essentially just form English words together just to make you go away?

She called me yesterday and we had a good discussion of the previous night. She thought I was asking why the scratch awards were not being paid out. The league doesn't pay scratch awards, only handicap. That was what she meant when she said "that's how they do it here." I bet she gets this question every year at the end of the season and probably from the same bowlers.

She was looking into the issue yesterday morning even before I had a chance to call the bowling alley. So she did the right thing and is sending me a check for the award money and left money at the bowling alley for the other affected bowler.

However, after some thought with a clear mind about the situation, I will be sending her the check back as I'm certain the money will be coming out of her pocket. The two people who received the awards Sunday night probably still has the league money, so she more than likely just paid the additional herself.

Bowling needs more people like this lady in my opinion. She made an honest mistake, owned up to it and made it right. League secretary is a thankless job and I can't even fathom all the crap this woman has to put up with from bowlers(me included). Her grace in handing the situation once she discovered there may have been a mistake earns her my respect and admiration. And also makes me ashamed of my own conduct as I look back on the events and see that I was "just another dickhead bowler" who is part of the downfall of the sport. Her and every league secretary like her who is a volunteer deserve better treatment than bowlers as a group give them.
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Good Times Good Times

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Re: Interesting league issue - PROBLEM SOLVED.
« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2015, 11:47:25 AM »
Kudos to her (and you) for making it right.  :)
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Jorge300

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Re: Interesting league issue - PROBLEM SOLVED.
« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2015, 12:42:53 PM »
Milo,
    Happy to hear this is resolved.

You are being very generous in sending the check back. You are correct that being a league secretary is a thankless job and they put up with more s$!$ then anyone should have to. But I disagree that you were in the wrong as well. I do understand her answer better, and you are probably 100% correct in that she is always asked why there is no scratch awards and that fueled her response. But you did nothing wrong. There was a legitimate error, and you tried to correct it, or at least get a viable answer as to why it was done the way it was. She could have, should have taken a look at it at that point, and rather then do that, she chose to blow you off as another scratch bowler complaining about handicap. If that really was the case, then you would be correct, you would have been in the wrong. But there is nothing wrong with pointing out a legitimate error and trying to get it fixed.
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Geetaan

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Re: Interesting league issue - PROBLEM SOLVED.
« Reply #36 on: May 05, 2015, 12:47:46 PM »
Milo go back to monday mixed 5's hahah
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milorafferty

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Re: Interesting league issue - PROBLEM SOLVED.
« Reply #37 on: May 05, 2015, 01:44:39 PM »
Quote from: Geetaan on May 05, 2015, 12:47:46 PM
Milo go back to monday mixed 5's hahah

I should. At least Pacific gives $100 for bowling a 300, right? All I got in this league was another number added to my name on the house 300 board. LOL
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Bowler19525

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Re: Interesting league issue - PROBLEM SOLVED.
« Reply #38 on: May 05, 2015, 06:58:50 PM »
The league I bowled in doesn't allow the highest average man or woman to be eligible for individual high game/high series.  However, the league doesn't pay out for those either.  They pay point money only based on total wins for the season.

We raised our prize fund $0.70 per week per person for next season and people were grumbling. 

With only $3.40 per week per person next season going to the prize fund, there is really no spare fund for individual awards.
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milorafferty

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Re: Interesting league issue - PROBLEM SOLVED.
« Reply #39 on: May 05, 2015, 07:02:25 PM »
Quote from: Bowler19525 on May 05, 2015, 06:58:50 PM
The league I bowled in doesn't allow the highest average man or woman to be eligible for individual high game/high series.  However, the league doesn't pay out for those either.  They pay point money only based on total wins for the season.

We raised our prize fund $0.70 per week per person for next season and people were grumbling. 

With only $3.40 per week per person next season going to the prize fund, there is really no spare fund for individual awards.

Most of the leagues in this area(at least the ones I have bowled) have a "sponsor fee", usually like $10 or $20 per team for handicap leagues and can go as high as $150 for scratch. That is the money that is used to pay the season awards.
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Brickguy221

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Re: Interesting league issue - PROBLEM SOLVED.
« Reply #40 on: May 05, 2015, 07:23:42 PM »
Back in the "old days" when business used to sponser teams, we had sponser fees, but now it seems no one sponsers teams and thus the sponser fee no longer exists.
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milorafferty

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Re: Interesting league issue - PROBLEM SOLVED.
« Reply #41 on: May 05, 2015, 07:27:37 PM »
Quote from: Brickguy221 on May 05, 2015, 07:23:42 PM
Back in the "old days" when business used to sponser teams, we had sponser fees, but now it seems no one sponsers teams and thus the sponser fee no longer exists.

Quite a few leagues still do here, but most don't actually have a sponsor. The bowlers have to "sponsor" themselves.  LOL
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