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Author Topic: Ball weight and pin carry  (Read 5769 times)

RealBowler

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Ball weight and pin carry
« on: May 18, 2010, 04:58:08 AM »
I know this comes up fairly often, but I'm curious about how ball weight affects pin carry.  I thought there was a USBC study done about it, or some other research that found that pin carry with a 14lb ball was just as good as 15 and 16lb balls, but I can't find it anywhere.

Anybody know where I can find it, or have any real world experience to share?
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T C 300

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Re: Ball weight and pin carry
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2010, 01:03:09 PM »
dont waste your time worring about this..... if you do, you should go chase rainbows... LOL

14-16 its really not gona make a difference. angle(s) is what will give you the carry

Xcessive_Evil

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Steven

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Re: Ball weight and pin carry
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2010, 02:56:23 PM »
quote:
But all factors being the same, the 16 will outstrike the 15, the 15 will outstrike the 14.  


Deadbait is right. There is little to debate on this.

My doubles partner is a case study. He came back from a long injury layoff and started out with new 14# equipment. He struggled around a 210 THS for several months. When everything was 'right', carry was very good. On the other hand, a less than clean release or if he tugged the ball and caught too much oil, he'd leave some nasty combos.

His arm finally heals enough to try some of his old 16# equipment, and suddenly his weekly average jumps into the 230's. You could see the difference in roll between the two weights.

A bowler with slower ball speed who has some hand and likes to swing the ball a bit might prefer 14#. Otherwise, 15# or 16# is going to be the better choice.

T C 300

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Re: Ball weight and pin carry
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2010, 03:02:18 PM »
bottom line, you can thrown a bunch of strikes any 14 15 16 lb ball!!!

practice helps also fyi!!!  HEHE

azus

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Re: Ball weight and pin carry
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2010, 03:06:34 PM »
A 14# will not carry as well as a 15# or 16# if all three balls hit the pocket at the same angle. But if you get higher entry angle with the 14# it will carry better than the 15 and 16#.
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completebowler

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Re: Ball weight and pin carry
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2010, 03:13:46 PM »
Couple other factors to be considered here is that some pros are moving back to 16 due to the fact that it will push down through the pattern more and creates more and more consistent friction.

Also, according to recent studies by Kegel the heavier the ball the less influence lane topography will have. And if you think that USBC testing verifies that your house is within spec then you need to look into the study Kegel has done.
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completebowler

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Re: Ball weight and pin carry
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2010, 03:21:33 PM »
Here is part of the literature from the seminar I recently attended.

http://www.kegel.net/library/foArticles.asp?iKodYazi=51

They had a video of Duke and Weber throwing on two different lanes, one with a within tolerance crown and one with a within tolerance depression. Weber struck on the depressed lane and hit the 6 in the face on the lane with the crown. CATS verified it was a near identical shot in every aspect.
Duke likewise struck on the depressed lane but, although his ball also pushed right on the crowned lane, it had less effect due to the fact that he uses 16 lb. still.

Wasn't trying to completely go off topic....just wanted to point out that carry is not the only consideration when it comes to ball weight.
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qstick777

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Re: Ball weight and pin carry
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2010, 03:33:46 PM »
I used to think there wasn't much difference.  Now I'm not so sure.

I started with 15lb back in 2004.  Had some injury issues that seemed to be bowling related, so I dropped to 14lb and they went away.

I never was a high average bowler, but I used to pride myself on my accuracy.  Never got many strikes, but I chalked that up to being wrong about the pocket (being between 1 and 3 instead of hitting 1 pin first).  

Anyways, this year just seemed like I was overpowering the ball....and my accuracy was crap.  I was pulling the ball and throwing too fast.  I had to make a conscious effort to slow down so that didn't overshoot the break point.  

One of my teammates bought a couple of new balls during the season and the topic of ball weight came up.  He was surprised that me and another teammate were throwing 14  (one teammate has the same span and was using one of my old balls and didn't even know what the weight was).  Said we should be "men" and throw at least 15.  Had the discussion that weight isn't that big of a deal, as long as you can control it and hit the pocket.  

I guess it kind of bothered me a bit, so I plugged up a 15lb that I had picked up here and decided to take it in one week.  I figured I'd throw it during practice, see if it messed up my timing and see if my injury came back.

That was week 31 of a 35 week season.  Well, each week I managed to raise my average a full pin.  I went from getting mostly 8 and 9 counts, and maybe 2 strikes a game, to probably averaging 6 strikes a game.  I used to leave a ton of corner pins, 4 pins, and occasional splits (4-9).  

Maybe it was the ball change?  I don't feel like I threw the ball any better.  I played the same basic line as before.  I still had the occasional tug, and I didn't change spare balls (still 14lb).  Since I was already working to keep my speed down, I don't feel that I lost any speed or revs by moving up. I just seemed to get better carry with the 15lb ball.

Of course, my tennis elbow seems to have come back, but I think that was starting to act up before I made the switch......and it doesn't bother me when I bowl.  Either way, leagues are over now.  I guess if it clears up I can blame it on the ball, but I'm confident I'll be using 15lb at the start of next season!

Sorry for the novel, that's just my experience.


MrPerfect

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Re: Ball weight and pin carry
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2010, 03:55:47 PM »
Yeah, for me it all depends on how you match up with the particular ball weight. My biggest problem when I bought into the 15lb hype is that with the added revs also came the added speed. Whereas before, my regular miss on a sport shot was high, with 15lbs my miss became the push through the breakpoint.

I'm a bigger guy, so the 1lb made a huge difference in my speed control due to my ability to feel the ball in my backswing itself. I don't know if I've seen any more or less carry with either weight due to my ball speed, but I do know that I've bowled better with 16lbs, but keep 15lb equipment around for short or dry conditions.

PLM

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Re: Ball weight and pin carry
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2010, 04:08:38 PM »
I switched from 16 to 15 about 1 1/2 years ago.  I found that my game improved (had my 2 personal high series in that time).  15s seemed to be just right for my strength level while 16s felt too heavy once I actually made the comparison.  I could do more things (i.e. it felt easier to put more revs on the ball).  16 is probably preferable, but if it is too heavy, then going down will probably result in better shot making.

Jesse James

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Re: Ball weight and pin carry
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2010, 04:18:37 PM »
This is just my take....everybody's is different I suspect. I had heard that carry was better with 14lbers.

I use 15lbers on any THS. On heavy oil I move up to 16lbs. On dry lanes I go with 14lbs.

On the dry lanes, I have to up my speed,..so what better way than going lighter? Carry seems okay as well. It definitely keeps me away from injury.
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DON DRAPER

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Re: Ball weight and pin carry
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2010, 09:19:38 PM »
Appx. 70% of the players on the PBA tour use 15lb. equipment. That being said, there are many who still throw 16lbs.-----Walter Ray Williams, Jr., Norm Duke, Parker Bohn III, Chris Barnes, Brian Voss, Robert Smith, etc.

If the lanes are oily and/or tight 16lbs. will carry better that 15lbs. or 14lbs. When bowling against brand new pins 16lbs. will carry better.

On most other conditions 15lbs. will carry as well as 16lbs.-----maybe better due to 16lbs. hitting too hard.

The only way i can see 14lbs. carrying consistently as well as 15lbs. or 16lbs. is by someone who can create greater angles of entry------even then I'm not sold.

ImakeA2srun

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Re: Ball weight and pin carry
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2010, 09:55:18 PM »
Full grown men use 16 lbs.

No Revs00300

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Re: Ball weight and pin carry
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2010, 05:49:37 AM »
quote:
Full grown men use 16 lbs.









Full grown men are smart enough to not listen to what you say.