Post by: channel surfer on July 04, 2004, 03:01:42 AM
Me throwing my WOW(or MOM):
http://members.cox.net/stevemainian/MEwow.wmv
Me throwing my Icon 2:
http://members.cox.net/stevemainian/MEicon2.wmv
Im open up for comments. Notice my first step. My approach speed does seem a lil faster than normal.
Also,
When someone ask you how many opens did you have today/last game/whatever, do you include missed splits as a open frame? I'm NOT certain, but the PBA does not count missed splits as opens do they?
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Post by: Not done on July 04, 2004, 07:12:29 PM
it seems as though, as soon as you take your first step, you move like a foot width to the left.
also, try to get more knee bend, instead of leaning way over. (This will save your hip from damages... at least for a while.)
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Post by: channel surfer on July 04, 2004, 07:30:24 PM
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Post by: bamaster on July 04, 2004, 07:36:00 PM
Post by: channel surfer on July 04, 2004, 07:39:50 PM
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Post by: dirtbikebowler on July 04, 2004, 08:28:25 PM
I would say the rest of your game look pretty solid from what i saw on those vids.
Post by: Photoc on July 04, 2004, 08:37:19 PM
Second, get rid of that sidestep, it does nothing that you can't do in a 4 step delivery. Move back, walk slower and push the ball out, no need to run, unless you're trying to beat that shot clock cuz it took so long to set up
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I can hit 10 pins!!! But I usually forget the rest of the rack
Post by: channel surfer on July 04, 2004, 08:59:44 PM
quote:
no need to run, unless you're trying to beat that shot clock cuz it took so long to set up
lol, but what advantage does a longer approach have?
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Edited on 7/4/2004 8:56 PM
Post by: TheBowlingKid25 on July 04, 2004, 09:31:40 PM
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16 years and still going strong! 16 years old that is!
The names Warrior Princess, Xena..Warrior PrincessAnd why would I "saw" pins in half, THATS A WASTE OF PINS!
Post by: Not done on July 04, 2004, 09:50:22 PM
there is only more room for error
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Post by: Coleman on July 04, 2004, 10:23:51 PM
Post by: channel surfer on July 04, 2004, 10:25:18 PM
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Post by: channel surfer on July 04, 2004, 11:47:31 PM
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Post by: TheBowlingKid25 on July 05, 2004, 12:06:09 AM
1)Bend your knee more
2)Your slide foot turns out, if you keep it straight, once you get in the habit, it helps you a lot.
3)keep your body more square, you start turned to the right.
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16 years and still going strong! 16 years old that is!
The names Warrior Princess, Xena..Warrior PrincessAnd why would I "saw" pins in half, THATS A WASTE OF PINS!
Post by: channel surfer on July 05, 2004, 12:30:47 AM
quote:
3 things I can see.
1)Bend your knee more
2)Your slide foot turns out, if you keep it straight, once you get in the habit, it helps you a lot.
3)keep your body more square, you start turned to the right.
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16 years and still going strong! 16 years old that is!
And why would I "saw" pins in half, THATS A WASTE OF PINS!
1- I cant bend much more down.
2- There is nothing worng with turning your foot to the left, it provides leverage. http://www.rollrite.co.uk/coaching.php?id=2
3. Keeping your shoulders closed when swinging the ball is difficult to do, but I do agree, keeping more square would help.
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Post by: Urethane Game on July 05, 2004, 12:33:26 AM
Tom Kouros in Par Bowling stresses cadence. Take a look at successful bowlers and most of them will have a consistent cadence to the foul line. If you think of your footwork in beats, it may help you to smooth out things a bit. As of right now, your game is in 5/4 time. It worked for Dave Brubeck but he was never a bowler.
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Post by: channel surfer on July 05, 2004, 12:41:32 AM
What do you mean by "why go through all of the contortions of a wind up?"?
Also, what do you mean by this, "As of right now, your game is in 5/4 time."?
Another joke about how long it took me to throw the ball? Or am I not getting something here??
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Post by: Mike Austin on July 05, 2004, 12:45:25 AM
Don't listen to Bamaster, he has no room to talk about speed on the approach. His not known as the PBA SW Region's Human Rain Delay for no reason! I have references!!! LOL!!
Actually, I kind of like your approach. Yes, it is alot jammed into a small space, but your timing is good, and your finish position is excellent.
You may have problems generating ball speed when the lanes really hooking, but with that short approach, you will have no problem getting in front of the ball return on the right lane.
The real question is can you repeat it consistently? I don't really like that side step in your first step, most coaches will try to get rid of that. But, if your drift is consistent, you may have something that will give you an advantage in certain situations. Playing 5th and 6th arrow is hard, but you may be able to get left and do it with ease.
The other problem might come with your age, in that, are you done growing? If you get real tall, you might want to move back some.
I would work on walking heel/toe with your third step, this will keep your shoulders up, should give your more leverage. It is very hard to bend at the waist while also walking heel/toe. Shuffling your feet lets you drop your upper body down. This causes you to lose leverage, ball speed, and power.
I would also work on targeting farther down the lane, and keeping your hand soft or quiet at release. This will help you project the ball better when the lanes are hooking. Don't change your release, just add a new wrinkle to your game for when you need it. From above, when your shoulders are up, follow through from the bottom of your swing, not the top. Think about having a loose/relaxed elbow. This will keep your swing loose/free. Not so much muscle.
Just a couple quickies...
Hope this helps ya...
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Mike Austin
Mike Austin's Precision Pro Shop
Houston, TX
strikes4days@sbcglobal.net
Storm Pro Shop Staff Member
Onward through the Storm!!!!
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Post by: channel surfer on July 05, 2004, 12:56:56 AM
I've been working on that side step thing. For some reason it is a pain to get rid of. I also noticed that the less I bend my knees, the less my foot goes out..?? SO I started using very very little bend, and my foot barley went outward at all. The problem with this is that I started lofting the ball, and I had no balance at the line because of the lack of knee bend. Im really not sure what causes my foot to go outward in the first place. If i could find what causes it to go outward, I could probably fix it.
I am fairly consistent with what I do now. Although I noticed when I rush my shots, or increase my approach speed that I loose a lot of accuracy.
My dad also said something about my ball speed. He thinks its slow?? Thats as fast as I can throw it without being really inaccurate. Thats a disadvantage.
What do you mean by walking heel/toe? And I usually target my breakpoint on a normal condition. So, targeting further down the lane is quite easy for me.
Thanks Mike.
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Post by: channel surfer on July 05, 2004, 01:00:28 AM
Not a fan of Moron 5 are we?
I'm working on what you said in the first one.
The second one is a real winner. After looking, I guess I am bowling with my back. Ill try keeping it more upright with more knee bend I suppose?
Thanks hammer!
EDIT: I meant Maroon 5.
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Edited on 7/5/2004 0:57 AM
Post by: Hammer3003 on July 05, 2004, 01:05:19 AM
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Bowl To Win!!!
Edited on 7/5/2004 1:01 AM
Post by: Mike Austin on July 05, 2004, 01:10:22 AM
Are you refering to your foot position at finish? Pointed to the left is awesome, I wish I could to that. Don't really think you can teach it.
If you are referring to your first step, well, just try to make sure it is consistent. The first step in a five step approach is more for feel or timing than anything. I take fives steps normally also.
Walking heel/toe is just like it sounds. Like walking down the street. Your heel is what contacts the floor in front of you first, instead of your toes, like when you shuffle your feet. Upon further review, you don't shuffle much, but if you think heel/toe and emphasize that, it will help you keep your upper body up. This is something I got from a coach a few years ago, and should work on more myself.
You might also not push the ball away quite so far out. I know you want speed, but this may be pulling your body forward. This is something that I also work on with my coach, Carol Norman. Getting the ball into my swing "quietly" is what she says. Don't push away so much, don't lock out the elbow. "Your ball speed will come from your loose swing and good finish position, not through muscle." I gotta work on that some more!!!
Yes, slow ball speed can be a disadvantage. Your short approach will let you get far left NATURALLY. I have to alter my approach when I get in front of the ball return. Luckily, in the PBA, we ball on fresh patterns almost all the time, so if I am in front of the ball return, it is because that is where I have to play the pattern, and not because the lanes are scorching. (Most of the time).
You are ahead of the learning curve for your age. You may be onto something that gives you an advantage!!!???? Sometimes soft speed is an advantage!! Learn to change hand positions and targeting to change your roll. I like your game, keep up the hard work!!!
--------------------
Mike Austin
Mike Austin's Precision Pro Shop
Houston, TX
strikes4days@sbcglobal.net
Storm Pro Shop Staff Member
Onward through the Storm!!!!
Check out our web site - www.BirdDogBowling.com
Post by: Mike Austin on July 05, 2004, 01:19:24 AM
You also have to bowl to your personality. Feel is very important. The most important thing is repeatability. Ever watch former Tour Player and multi-Champion, King of the Hill Ron Williams??? Nasty swing, short approach, but perfect solid at the line. He is a machine.
Your style is not uncoachable, only to an uncreative coach. This is also the guy that made the first reply, with sarcasm and nothing positive to say.
Read people's profiles before you listen to their advice. Don't throw out what you do naturally, add to it, compliment it, expand it, grow it, ......
DRRev might not have meant to hurt your feelings, but his typing style was very inflammatory, upsetting at least to me. Hmmmmm.......
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Mike Austin
Mike Austin's Precision Pro Shop
Houston, TX
strikes4days@sbcglobal.net
Storm Pro Shop Staff Member
Onward through the Storm!!!!
Check out our web site - www.BirdDogBowling.com
Edited on 7/5/2004 1:35 AM
Post by: channel surfer on July 05, 2004, 02:06:29 AM
Drev, I actually thought about restarting from scratch at one point. Never had the time on my hands because my hands were on your mom all the time.
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Edited on 7/5/2004 2:02 AM
Post by: Urethane Game on July 05, 2004, 03:00:29 AM
5/4 time is a musical reference to an unusual time signature.
My point about the contortions of a windup is: Most windups walk left and wheel for a reason. I don't see that your game benefits any from the extra effort required to keep all of those moving parts in sync, especially in such a short period of time. On the shots when you don't strike, what happens?
You have a good release and finish position. You should take that as a positive and figure out a way to increase your ability to repeat. I can't recommend Par Bowling enough as a good reference for your bowling game.
If you are looking for a good example of a tweener who does it right, check out Paul Fleming sometime. He is super smooth and rolls the heck out of the ball without doing anything fancy.
I hope that helps.
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got revs? (http://"http://www.cafeshops.com/desplainesradio.9359346")
Post by: tenpinspro on July 05, 2004, 07:17:05 AM
I take 5 steps in about 6 ft of approach. Don't worry about moving back yet as I teach the more distance you utilize, the more room there is for error as you can allow yourself to get "happy" feet. The basis for the proper length in an approach to walk up to the foul line, turn around and WALK back the amount of steps you take in your approach plus 1/2 for slide. The concept behind this is, what's easier to repeat, your walking steps or abnormal strides in length? After you get the feel of being balanced at the line for proper leverage(which you look like you do), you can then basically move back and forth on the approach for speed adjustments. One note, Your feet are a little quick in the video.
Your left foot is fine and is very hard to do if you didn't have very good balance and leverage at the line, I learned that a long time ago.
The drift to the left, nothing wrong so long as you can keep it consistent. I have a very good friend and great bowler named Paul Brenner who drifts about 15 boards left on his step and has always done this. He was 1985-86 All American, do you think he needed to correct anything? It may not be a pretty site but so long as it's effective and consistent, it's fine. I personally feel it is also a good method to learn to walk around ball returns as many taller and bigger bowlers are having to learn that now to play deep.
Your finishing position looks fine, squaring up is not important as being square to target which is the proper definition and so long as you are "square" to target, regardless of it being down and in or swing, you're fine.
Your release is clean and good, decent revs and good speed.
One question though, what kind of shoes are you using? I can't see them but they look lower end, I may be wrong. If they are, try a pair of higher end shoes with more support, it may prevent your left foot from sliding out as far in your 1st step.
Overall, if you can be consistent with your approach, don't worry about it. Everthing else at the point of release looks strong and solid which is what's important in execution.
Rick
Post by: channel surfer on July 05, 2004, 12:20:15 PM
The shoes are dexter marshalls. I call them my space/dancing shoes.
I'm getting a pair of Etonic ESL Flames when they come out though.
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Post by: LuvThatWhiteDot on July 05, 2004, 05:52:40 PM
quote:quote:
no need to run, unless you're trying to beat that shot clock cuz it took so long to set up
lol, but what advantage does a longer approach have?
It'll make your steps longer, help generate ball speed and make your body swing the ball from start to finish (MHO).
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White Dot
Raising kids is like trying to nail Jell-o to a tree.
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Post by: LuvThatWhiteDot on July 05, 2004, 05:55:07 PM
quote:
2- There is nothing worng with turning your foot to the left, it provides leverage. http://www.rollrite.co.uk/coaching.php?id=2
This has nothing to do with the video, but I noticed the web address of the above-listed site. I bowled on the same ABC team squad as those Rollrite guys (from England) and that was some high-powered offense
They were fun to watch!--------------------
White Dot
Raising kids is like trying to nail Jell-o to a tree.
http://bowlingfans.com/league
Edited on 7/5/2004 5:52 PM
Post by: Amleto on July 05, 2004, 06:27:34 PM
quote:quote:quote:
no need to run, unless you're trying to beat that shot clock cuz it took so long to set up
lol, but what advantage does a longer approach have?
It'll make your steps longer, help generate ball speed and make your body swing the ball from start to finish (MHO).
It also allows you to *slowly* get lower. This definitely is an advantage as the pivot that is your shoulder will be less likely to be moving in the vertical plane as much.
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Am-1337-o
Post by: channel surfer on July 06, 2004, 10:47:14 AM
So on the first step, I should not move the ball/arm, then the 4th step I should push away.. then everything normal from there?
I actually already knew about how I start on my first step. I really never thought about changing it, till now.
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Edited on 7/6/2004 10:43 AM
Post by: channel surfer on July 07, 2004, 12:07:26 AM
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Post by: CJ on July 07, 2004, 12:46:58 AM
Post by: DP3 on July 07, 2004, 01:35:08 AM
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Post by: CJ on July 07, 2004, 02:55:42 AM
quote:
This guy had me thinking he was C_J(Chris Johnson) for a minutes. Good one, lmao.
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Post by: Strider on July 07, 2004, 10:18:06 AM
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Post by: channel surfer on July 07, 2004, 10:30:35 AM
quote:
There is no way you confuse his style with channel surfer's.
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Post by: janderson on July 07, 2004, 02:03:55 PM
quote:
When someone ask you how many opens did you have today/last game/whatever, do you include missed splits as a open frame? I'm NOT certain, but the PBA does not count missed splits as opens do they?
CS - Yes, I count missed splits as opens. The way I see it, a split constitutes a mistake on your first ball. A missed spare constitutes a mistake on your second ball. I believe the PBA counts missed splits as opens, but I do not believe they count towards spare conversion percentage (they count towards split conversion percentage). Anyone who knows for sure, by all means, correct me.
CS - I think it is great that you're willing to take comments and criticism and try new things. To quote Robert Smith ("Maximum Bob"): "People who aren't willing to try new things aren't willing to improve"
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Kill the back row (or maybe this should read "make your spares, dummy")
Edited on 7/7/2004 1:59 PM
Post by: channel surfer on July 07, 2004, 03:05:57 PM
I'm going to practice this thursday and see how it goes. Ill bring my mini cam to record it if i think I am onto something.
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Post by: channel surfer on July 08, 2004, 03:31:37 PM
That 4th step thing was a typo. I never noticed it till you said it.
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Post by: UCIbowl on July 08, 2004, 07:56:42 PM
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