Post by: revTrex on May 08, 2008, 02:37:43 AM
As I work for BJI, I'm trying to put together a list of the 50 greatest bowlers to NEVER BOWL OR WIN in the PBA. This in response to the PBA putting together a list of the 50 greatest PBA players...
So...what I guess I'm asking you guys to do is just start naming some guys. I've got the obvious ones -- Jimmy Smith, Jimmy Blouin, John "Count" Gengler, Hank Marino, Ned Day -- but I want to hear what you guys think. I know a ton about the pre-PBA years...but not so much about those bowlers who rolled outside the PBA while the PBA was in existence. That means a lot of folks -- the action bowlers, the amateurs, etc. -- might go unnoticed, and I don't want that to happen. I want this list to be as complete as possible, so the more you got, the better it'll be. ON SECOND EDIT: Also note that you can now suggest people who never won a title...
After I compile all the names (from here, from my own research, from talking to other experts, etc.), BJI is going to rank these, just like the PBA is doing. Haven't exactly established how this will happen, but it'll most likely be a panel of experts.
Sound good? Start naming! ON EDIT: If you want, when you post a name, add a little info about that person. It takes a lot of time to research names, so if you've got info (where they're from, why they should be on the list), add that if possible!
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www.900global.com
www.bowlersjournal.com
Edited on 5/8/2008 10:42 AM
Edited on 5/8/2008 3:58 PM
Post by: Sportskraz on May 08, 2008, 10:40:39 AM
Post by: bass on May 08, 2008, 02:54:43 PM
Brian Graham
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If it doesn't come from Team Utah.
Just leave it in the car or at home.
Post by: Hogsharley on May 08, 2008, 03:11:45 PM
Try this site.^^^ Alot of info in the stories.
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3 holes of fun!!
Post by: revTrex on May 08, 2008, 03:37:34 PM
quote:
http://www.actionbowlers.com/action_frame_main.htm
Try this site.^^^ Alot of info in the stories.
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3 holes of fun!!
Yep, already seen it, read it, etc...been around for a while, ya know?
I was just trying to get some other guys' opinions on things...keep 'em coming!
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www.bowlersjournal.com
Post by: bowlingnut2008 on May 08, 2008, 03:51:50 PM
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Post by: revTrex on May 08, 2008, 03:56:26 PM
Hey, thetruth, would mind sharing "the truth" about yourself? You can pm me if you want, and I'll add you to a list of names to research. Hell, if you can back up the claim, you might even make the final list...though I'd need a name. "Truth" is, I don't care if you guys suggest yourselves. But you better be able to back it up to me.
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www.bowlersjournal.com
Post by: KennyRambo on May 08, 2008, 04:40:15 PM
Post by: azus on May 08, 2008, 04:49:32 PM
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What would Chuck Norris do?
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Cute Bunny! copy bunny into sig to help him achieve world domination
Post by: mrbowlingnut on May 08, 2008, 04:54:24 PM
His mom tracks his lifetime winnings which is right at 1.5 million dollars, very underrated player could not win on the national tour but did make a few shows in 1980's.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=b-lSGT-vFDc
added so you guys can see this guy bowl he made a brutal shot look easy, Mo Pinel personally drilled the balls used.
Edited on 5/8/2008 5:09 PM
Post by: Spartan on May 08, 2008, 04:56:21 PM
Post by: Spartan on May 08, 2008, 04:58:17 PM
Post by: John D Davis on May 08, 2008, 05:31:54 PM
Post by: Spartan on May 08, 2008, 05:49:15 PM
Post by: wulfpackbwlr on May 08, 2008, 05:56:14 PM
--------------------
NC State Bowling Team
http://http://clubs.ncsu.edu/bowling/index.htm
email: wolfpackbowling@yahoo.com
Please contact if you attend NC State and want to bowl or want to make a donation to our broke team.:-)
Post by: revTrex on May 08, 2008, 06:17:58 PM
quote:
Give Dan Maclelland and O'Grady some time and they'll probably not be on this list anymore.
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NC State Bowling Team
http://http://clubs.ncsu.edu/bowling/index.htm
email: wolfpackbowling@yahoo.com
Please contact if you attend NC State and want to bowl or want to make a donation to our broke team.:-)
Honestly, as good as O'Grady and MacLelland are -- I've bowled against them -- they probably won't make the list. Consider: I'm dealing with over a 100 years of history. What accomplishments they've achieved -- again, as awesome as they are -- pale in comparison to the Varipapas, Genglers, Marinos...and even to the Hoffmans, Belmontes, Macks, etc. O'Grady and MacLelland aren't at that level yet...but they might be, in time, provided that they stay at it.
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www.bowlersjournal.com
Post by: Platinum Bowler on May 08, 2008, 07:03:58 PM
quote:I totally agree.quote:
Give Dan Maclelland and O'Grady some time and they'll probably not be on this list anymore.
--------------------
NC State Bowling Team
http://http://clubs.ncsu.edu/bowling/index.htm
email: wolfpackbowling@yahoo.com
Please contact if you attend NC State and want to bowl or want to make a donation to our broke team.:-)
Honestly, as good as O'Grady and MacLelland are -- I've bowled against them -- they probably won't make the list. Consider: I'm dealing with over a 100 years of history. What accomplishments they've achieved -- again, as awesome as they are -- pale in comparison to the Varipapas, Genglers, Marinos...and even to the Hoffmans, Belmontes, Macks, etc. O'Grady and MacLelland aren't at that level yet...but they might be, in time, provided that they stay at it.
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www.900global.com
www.bowlersjournal.com
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B-Car
Post by: revTrex on May 08, 2008, 07:26:01 PM
1. Count Gengler
2. Jimmy Smith
3. Hank Marino
4. Andy Varipapa
5. Jimmy Blouin
6. Jason Belmonte
7. Osku Palermaa
8. Tim Mack
9. Richie Wolfe
10. Brad Angelo
11. Paul Moor
12. Derek Eoff
13. Bill Hoffman
14. David O’Sullivan
15. Jeff Carter
16. Bob Purzycki
17. Jeff Klein
18. Buddy Bomar
19. Ned Day
20. Joe Falcaro
21. Joe Scribner
22. Joe Norris
23. Richie Hornreich
24. Rudy Kasimakis
25. Steve Nagy
26. Jeff Kidder
27. Graz Castellano
28. Lindy Faragalli
29. Therm Gibson
30. Ed Kawolics
31. Junie McMahon
32. Joe Wilman
33. Nelson Burton, Sr.
34. Alfie Cohn
35. Allie Brandt
36. Adolph Carlson
37. John Crimmins
38. Frank Kartheiser
39. Fred Bujack
40. Mike Rose, Jr.
41. Jeff Richgels
42. John Socha
43. Joe Jimenez
44. John Delp III
45. John Chacko Jr.
46. John Voorhies
47. Frank Thoma
48. Mort Lindsey
49. Harry Steers
50. Harry Cohn
51. Otto Stein Jr.
52. Charley Daw
53. Jim Spalding
54. Rich Wonders
55. Tore Torgensen
56. Paeng Nepomuceno
57. Paul Renteria
58. David Haynes
59. Mark Jensen
60. Frank Benkovic
61. Frank Caruana
62. Ebber (Sarge) Easter
63. William Knox
64. Edward Krems
65. Paul Krumske
66. Walter Skang Mecurio
67. Pat Patterson
68. Rick Pollard
69. Ron Pollard
70. Junior Powell
71. Billy Sixty
72. Barney Spinella
73. Phil Wolf
74. George Young
75. Bob Glass
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www.bowlersjournal.com
Post by: bass on May 08, 2008, 07:32:01 PM
Won on the Senior Tour.
I assumed non PBA card holders.
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If it doesn't come from Team Utah.
Just leave it in the car or at home.
Post by: revTrex on May 08, 2008, 07:47:07 PM
quote:
Scratch Glass.
Won on the Senior Tour.
I assumed non PBA card holders.
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If it doesn't come from Team Utah.
Just leave it in the car or at home.
Could be PBA members...notice the slight change I made...and yeah, I should probably not allow Senior Tour winners (even if they never won on the Tour, per se)...
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www.bowlersjournal.com
Post by: tenpin477 on May 08, 2008, 07:51:28 PM
Post by: supernoodle on May 08, 2008, 07:56:12 PM
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I would have got away with it if it was not for those pesky kids (Behind my lane) and those blasted 10 pins.
Post by: abrown on May 08, 2008, 07:58:54 PM
Post by: bjoz11 on May 08, 2008, 08:32:19 PM
http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=6593&suffix=2484
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Mike Bixler..so pretty:http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=6593&suffix=2484
Post by: tenpin477 on May 08, 2008, 08:50:04 PM
His performance in the USBC Open however speaks volumes. He has a chance to repeat as All-Events Champion.
Post by: pop_1 on May 08, 2008, 09:11:10 PM
Sean Riccardi
Rory Kalaquin
JD Santalucia
Post by: sdbowler on May 08, 2008, 09:48:32 PM
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Brunswick
Kyle
Post by: MC on May 08, 2008, 09:50:52 PM
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Post by: EdKramarcak on May 08, 2008, 10:15:12 PM
Post by: bass on May 08, 2008, 10:15:21 PM
Around 1920 I think possibly earlier.
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If it doesn't come from Team Utah.
Just leave it in the car or at home.
Post by: wasted talent on May 08, 2008, 10:42:41 PM
I believe Neumann won 3 or 4 eagles in one year. So he's a no brainer. I also would add Joe "Vito" Buenrostro to that list.
Edited on 5/8/2008 10:43 PM
Post by: ebo4life on May 08, 2008, 10:59:01 PM
Im from Florida but originally from New England (Connecticut)---I bowled many NEBA tournaments-----If you want to see some of the absolute best non touring pros you should attend these tournaments----guys like Mike Lichstein, Brian Boghosian, Bill Webb, Chris Rebstock and a host of others compete in these tourneys and any one of them could easily compete on national tour----In fact several touring legends like Wayne Webb, Larry Lichstein, and Mark Roth have competed in these tourneys and won as well-----These to me are the best amateurs in the world
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Ebonite born---Ebonite bred-----if they sell out I'll be Ebonite dead
Post by: batbowler on May 08, 2008, 11:16:25 PM
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"Train a child up in the way he should go and when he is old he will not turn from it."
Post by: Centers on May 09, 2008, 12:24:17 AM
Edited on 5/9/2008 0:26 AM
Post by: Pupubowlingcho on May 09, 2008, 02:00:44 AM
He was FIQ ranked #1 for years.
Edited on 5/9/2008 2:03 AM
Post by: revTrex on May 09, 2008, 09:16:42 AM
quote:quote:
John "Count" Gengler
he from NY? there's a local guy here in Brooklyn who we call "The Count", don't know his name though.
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Formerly HammerBowler
One half of the Tag-Team Internet Ownage Champions
¡Viva la Nación de Brunswick!
BR.com search hack: http://www.bowling-info.com/Search.html
LOL, but no offense, TCP...Count Gengler was from the early, early days of bowling. He was a famous (and feared) hustler from Luxembourg, who came to America in 1914. He only took one step, could palm the ball for score, set an unofficial ten-game scoring record (avg. = 249), rolled 34 strikes in a row in Brussels in 1913, and (legend has it) rolled a 300 in the dark.
...ANYWAYS...THANKS TO ALL who have continued the list. I lost my internet connection during a bad storm last night, and look what I missed!
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www.900global.com
www.bowlersjournal.com
Post by: revTrex on May 09, 2008, 11:43:59 AM
1. Count Gengler
2. Jimmy Smith
3. Hank Marino
4. Andy Varipapa
5. Jimmy Blouin
6. Jason Belmonte
7. Osku Palermaa
8. Tim Mack
9. Richie Wolfe
10. Brad Angelo
11. Paul Moor
12. Derek Eoff
13. Bill Hoffman
14. David O’Sullivan
15. Jeff Carter
16. Bob Purzycki
17. Jeff “Beeper†Klein
18. Buddy Bomar
19. Ned Day
20. Joe Falcaro
21. Joe Scribner
22. Joe Norris
23. Richie Hornreich
24. Rudy Kasimakis
25. Steve Nagy
26. Jeff Kidder
27. Graz Castellano
28. Lindy Faragalli
29. Therm Gibson
30. Ed Kawolics
31. Junie McMahon
32. Joe Wilman
33. Nelson Burton, Sr.
34. Alfie Cohn
35. Allie Brandt
36. Adolph Carlson
37. John Crimmins
38. Frank Kartheiser
39. Fred Bujack
40. Mike Rose, Jr.
41. Jeff Richgels
42. John Socha
43. Joe Jimenez
44. John Delp III
45. John Voorhies
46. Frank Thoma
47. Mort Lindsey
48. Harry Steers
49. Harry Cohn
50. Otto Stein Jr.
51. Charley Daw
52. Jim Spalding
53. Rich Wonders
54. Tore Torgensen
55. Paeng Nepomuceno
56. Paul Renteria
57. David Haynes
58. Mark Jensen
59. Frank Benkovic
60. Frank Caruana
61. Ebber (Sarge) Easter
62. William Knox
63. Edward Krems
64. Paul Krumske
65. Walter Skang Mecurio
66. Pat Patterson
67. Rick Pollard
68. Ron Pollard
69. Junior Powell
70. Billy Sixty
71. Barney Spinella
72. Phil Wolf
73. George Young
74. Bob Glass
75. Brian Kretzer
76. Thomas Leandersson
77. Dom LaBargo
78. Ben McNevich
79. Chris Loschetter
80. Joe Ciccone
81. Dave Guindon
82. Mike Neumann
83. Mike Bixler
84. Ryan May
85. Sean Riccardi
86. Rory Kalaquin
87. JD Santalucia
88. Paul Fleming
89. Joe Vito Buenrostro
90. Mike Lichstein
91. Brian Boghosian
92. Bill Webb
93. Chris Rebstock
94. Paul Yoder
95. Andrew Cain
96. Brett Wolfe
97. Jim Tilton
98. Mike Taylor
99. Cheng-Ming Yang
100. Ron Dixon
101. Purvis Granger
102. Ken Simard
103. Bill O’Neill
104. Jack Winters Sr.
105. Chris Batson
106. John Janawicz
107. Cassidy Schaub
108. PJ Haggerty
109. Fero Williams
110. Don Scudder
111. Chad Murphy
112. Steve Kloempken
113. Danny Broadway
114. Tom Kelly Jr.
115. Daniel Nadeau
116. Dino Castillo
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www.900global.com
www.bowlersjournal.com
Post by: LuckyLefty on May 09, 2008, 11:53:45 AM
I love Paul Renteria's style! Heavy rolling ball one of my favorite types of roll to watch! And smooth!
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: revTrex on May 09, 2008, 12:01:53 PM
quote:
Ned Day never won on pro tour? Wasn't around? I once read a book by him....very old!
I love Paul Renteria's style! Heavy rolling ball one of my favorite types of roll to watch! And smooth!
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Lucky --
Ned and a few other guys on this list were professionals in every sense of the word. They owned bowling before the Tour got started...winning or participating in several events that later became "part" of the Tour. It just so happens, however, that Ned never won a PBA title. If their name doesn't appear on this list:
http://www.pba.com/news/features.asp?ID=2570
...they are eligible for my list. Hope this helps, and keep the names coming!
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www.900global.com
www.bowlersjournal.com
Post by: northface28 on May 09, 2008, 12:32:19 PM
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Mea Culpa
Post by: pop_1 on May 09, 2008, 02:44:05 PM
Post by: Centers on May 09, 2008, 06:33:42 PM
All from Wichita, Kansas
Gordon Vadakin (name speaks for itself)
Mark Lewis (name speaks for itself)
Jeff Jensen (top 20 in Average for Nationals)
Kelly Bonta
Cory Simmons (great college player and Team USA)
Billy Murphy
Post by: AdrianS on May 09, 2008, 07:32:29 PM
Ian Bradford(from about 87 to 97 was the favourite in any tourney he enetered in Australia, and he won plenty of them!!!)
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Time for some REAL bowling!!!
Post by: revTrex on May 10, 2008, 09:29:45 AM
quote:
With the PBA rumored to be adding all Masters titles as offical PBA Tour Major wins and titles, would that eliminate
91. Brian Boghosian
and
96. Brett Wolfe
???
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-David Carcagente
MuchRevs@aol.com
Proud brother of Michelle Carcagente...Junior Team USA 2008!!
"You can't lose what you don't put in the middle....but then again you can't win that much either." - Rounders
If the titles were won BEFORE the PBA adds or changes the tournament...it doesn't count. That's why I can include folks like Jimmy Smith, Andy Varipapa, etc. Jimmy Smith was widely regarded as the match-game champion in his day. That match-game championship was made into a tournament by Louis P. Petersen...that tournament became merged with the BPAA All-Star (won by a variety of folks, including Varipapa)...and the All-Star later became the U.S. Open (now regarded as a PBA title)...
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www.bowlersjournal.com
Post by: pinspeaker on May 10, 2008, 10:48:52 AM
Mark Scroggins
Paul Fleming
Brad Angelo
Dave Guindon
Rudy K
DJ Archer
Dino Castillo
John Gaines
Sean Quinn
Just randomly naming good bowlers who have never won...
Post by: AStrikingChink on May 29, 2008, 12:25:37 AM
Post by: bucsfan713 on May 29, 2008, 09:12:54 AM
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Always trying to learn more about the game and make myself better.
Post by: BigWillyStyle on May 29, 2008, 09:31:09 AM
Once again, sorry to hijack post, just noticed as I was watchig the video.
Big Willy Style
PS...I totally second the nominations for Belmonte and Palermaa...they're changing the face of bowling single-handedly...with both hands (what an unintended pun that was....LOL)
quote:
Number one should be my friend and ex team mate 2 time High Roller champion Paul Renteria he won 400k alone in those wins.
His mom tracks his lifetime winnings which is right at 1.5 million dollars, very underrated player could not win on the national tour but did make a few shows in 1980's.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=b-lSGT-vFDc
added so you guys can see this guy bowl he made a brutal shot look easy, Mo Pinel personally drilled the balls used.
Edited on 5/8/2008 5:09 PM
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Post by: 9andaWiggle on May 29, 2008, 10:31:14 AM
quote:
What about Mr Prebowl? He has multiple 900's.
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Always trying to learn more about the game and make myself better.
YEAH! I mean, something like a hundred 900's bowled in the span of 3 months? The guy is a freakin' MACHINE! He's the best ever! How can he NOT be on this list? USBC agrees that he did it, so it must surely prove to all that he is legit! How many Pro's have multiple 900 rings? Yep, thought so. Case closed.
Here's a napkin you can use to wipe up my dripping sarcasm from the post above.
I'm sure the person I quoted was not serious either.
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9~
It's a Sheep thing... You wouldn't understand!
Post by: bucsfan713 on May 29, 2008, 11:12:55 AM
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Always trying to learn more about the game and make myself better.
Post by: Rev_O on May 29, 2008, 11:15:50 AM
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Rev-O
Post by: 9andaWiggle on May 29, 2008, 11:20:33 AM
quote:
You are correct, I was joking as well. I couldn't find the sarcasm button on my computer.
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Always trying to learn more about the game and make myself better.
You don't see it? It's right beside all the witnesses to those multiple 900's!
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9~
It's a Sheep thing... You wouldn't understand!
Post by: 9andaWiggle on May 29, 2008, 11:21:42 AM
quote:
Look at me, I'm #25 on that list!!
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Rev-O
If that's the case, then I nominate THE HOSE!
Does that get me a "10" rating for today?
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9~
It's a Sheep thing... You wouldn't understand!
Edited on 5/29/2008 11:22 AM
Post by: ebo4life on May 29, 2008, 11:43:04 AM
Any one of these guys could go on pba imo---Neba bowling in New England is a sight to behold
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Ebonite born---Ebonite bred-----if they sell out I'll be Ebonite dead
Post by: Scolai on May 29, 2008, 01:32:55 PM
From here in NC, Butch Zdelar set state records and was an incredible sight on the lanes. 10 years ago he could hook a Columbia blue dot like a modern reactive. He had to leave the game due to an injury to his bowling hand.
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ScolaÃ
I'm Not Fluent In Idiot So Please Speak Slowly & Clearly
Post by: mrbowlingnut on May 29, 2008, 02:41:26 PM
One of his junior coaches is also a friend of mine, he drove Robert to tournaments all over Cali and Arizona when the family could not get him there. Robert is one of coolest down to earth PBA guys there is period.
Post by: Waldorf Salad on May 29, 2008, 11:50:48 PM
The list must have Gordy Baer from Chicago/Northwest Indiana. The man was always way up in the lifetime average of the ABC Tournament, I don't know if he was ever first, but I know he was at least second in his prime. You won't find his name now as he did it back when a 200 average meant you were GREAT.
Post by: AdrianS on May 30, 2008, 03:08:38 AM
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Time for some REAL bowling!!!
Post by: Uncle Crusty on May 30, 2008, 07:12:17 PM
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"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein."
-Broadcasting Extraordinaire and Mensa Member Joe Theismann
Post by: jefftaker2002 on May 30, 2008, 08:35:05 PM
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