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Author Topic: Best Degree of Axis Rotation  (Read 3204 times)

J_w73

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Best Degree of Axis Rotation
« on: February 16, 2010, 06:30:02 AM »
I normally have a high degree of axis rotation, 45+. This causes some skid/flip ,over under reaction but it also gives me backend on the ball.  I'm trying to put a little more forward roll on the ball for more control and carry/bigger pocket. I find that my ball just loses rotation too quickly and I get no back end .  I have decent revs but maybe my tilt isn't enough and ball is just reading the lane too much and transitioning too quickly.

I know one guy that come almost directly up the back of the ball(maybe 20 deg axis rotation) with revs and the ball still seems to move a ton.    If I get anything less then 45 I better be playing straight up arrows if I want to get to the pocket. And if I miss right and hit dry the ball will roll out and be DOA at the pocket.. if it gets there..
I find I need to play a 65 + deg just so there is still side rotation when the ball gets to the backend.  

Is this the layout, cover strength, ball, lane condition, my release and revs ??

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18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185
350 RPM, 17 MPH

 

bighook69

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Re: Best Degree of Axis Rotation
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2010, 02:46:45 PM »
sounds like ball layout + lane condition problem for you. When you say that the ball looses power when you are around 45 degrees this tells me that the ball is starting early and rolling out some what before hitting the pins, this is probably why you also see a angular reaction in the backend of the lane with your regular release. Having a very forward rolling release myself I tend to like to use balls with a pin down drilling, but this is also because of my rev rate which is on the high side, if you are on the medium to low side of the revolution scale then try something with some polish on it, maybe a pearl, drilled to get down the lane and then try your forward roll release.

Good luck

J_w73

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Re: Best Degree of Axis Rotation
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2010, 03:18:46 PM »
The balls that I have polish on them are the main ones I am having the problem with.. but they are 5+ pin to pap pin up drillings. MB around 55- 60 DEG. My two best rolling balls right now seem to be my pin at centergrip (5.5") 900 global creature at 2000 abralon. And my 4" pin to pap sidewinder at 1000 abralon.  Both are symmetricals if that might have anything to do with it.  

my revs are around 350.  I see myself having more revs than most people but I see all there stuff moving way more. I may have bad judgement when it comes to comparing speed but when I see other people throw I don't think I am any faster either..
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18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185
350 RPM, 17 MPH

bighook69

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Re: Best Degree of Axis Rotation
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2010, 03:23:48 PM »
hmmm... are you sure your rev rate is roughly the same when you are trying to stay up behind it?

J_w73

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Re: Best Degree of Axis Rotation
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2010, 03:28:49 PM »
Can it just be a matter of revs? Cause like I said I have around 350 or so with my normal release but when I come more up the back I probably have reduced revs. I haven't figured out how to impart the same revs when I'm not revolving around the ball as much..
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18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185
350 RPM, 17 MPH

J_w73

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Re: Best Degree of Axis Rotation
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2010, 04:01:01 PM »
quote:
hmmm... are you sure your rev rate is roughly the same when you are trying to stay up behind it?


I must have been writing while you were posting..

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18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185
350 RPM, 17 MPH

AngloBowler

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Re: Best Degree of Axis Rotation
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2010, 01:20:45 AM »
I generally have an "up the back" release, but am working on being able to modify it. This release will tend to smooth out the reaction, and make the ball react earlier. The by-product of this is that the ball won't hook as much on the back end.

It will be influenced by cover strength, but also by the amount of oil in the part of the lane you're playing. I find this type of release works well on extreme wet/dry lanes allowing me to play an angle out into the oil, which gives me hold, and a little miss room where the ball won't overreact so much
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Locke

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Re: Best Degree of Axis Rotation
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2010, 02:48:23 AM »
You for sure need a weaker layout to get the ball down the lane when you come up the back. I only get 20-30 degrees and have to go with really long layouts.
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dizzyfugu

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Re: Best Degree of Axis Rotation
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2010, 02:54:38 AM »
IMO, it is basically a release thing. When you are not able to adjust your release, you might become very limited on the lane, even if you switch lines or even balls. It is the release adjustment that finally blends the "gaps" between balls and their utility, and allos gradual adjustment to lane conditions.

For reference: My A game is also with the hand behind the ball (PAP 5" over, 7/8" up, ~300RPM, 14-15mph speed), but I know the problem of balls rolling very early with this release, esp. on THS and thin oil with lots of traffic (read: league). As long as head oil is there, this is a very powerful release for me, with a very clean ball reaction, but lack of oil will have the ball literally die - with poor carry even when I hit the pocket well.

As a fine remedy I increase axis tilt. Normally I hold the ball on my flat hand and keep this position throughout the swing. But wehn I need extra length, I tilt my hand inwards (normally 30-45°, but 90° for a kind of suitcase release is also possible - I do this for 3-9 leaves), which enhances side rotation and skid in the front part of the lane. Sometimes I might also cup the wrist, to add some revs for better recovery down the lane when I feel that the skid phase becomes ever longer and the ball might lack "room" in the back end to get into its stable roll for a powerful finish in the pin deck.

I found this method of release adjustment very effective for me - both for the carry issue and also for control about the ball reaction. It allows me to gradually adjust to changing conditions, while keeping up a line and also staying with the same ball. Ball does not hook as "pretty" as with the normal release, but wood is what finally counts...
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J_w73

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Re: Best Degree of Axis Rotation
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2010, 03:11:53 AM »
I'm just thinking I'm not seeing enough head oil for this release and the type of cover/ball I am using..

Tonight the lanes were pretty flooded.. very unusually oily.. with out of bounds to the right of 10..
the forward roll shot seemed to work pretty well..
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18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185
350 RPM, 17 MPH

dizzyfugu

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Re: Best Degree of Axis Rotation
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2010, 03:14:55 AM »
Yup. Forward roll works great on fresh heads or oily shots. But once the line dries up, you either have to move deep and create more hook, or start facing early hook and a dead ball. That's when adding side rotation comes in handy, because it helps bridging the fading heads (to a certain degree).
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J_w73

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Re: Best Degree of Axis Rotation
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2010, 08:56:02 AM »
quote:
Yup. Forward roll works great on fresh heads or oily shots. But once the line dries up, you either have to move deep and create more hook, or start facing early hook and a dead ball. That's when adding side rotation comes in handy, because it helps bridging the fading heads (to a certain degree).
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ok.. I guess it is working how it is supposed to and its not me being a horrible bowler.. at least not all the time
--------------------
18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185
350 RPM, 17 MPH