win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: Best way to attack [apparent] carrydown  (Read 2552 times)

Neptune66

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 466
Best way to attack [apparent] carrydown
« on: December 02, 2010, 12:53:44 AM »
Don't know for sure that it IS carrydown, but sure seems to be the problem.

Was going to ask which ball was best ----which would have best traction, but have tried aggressive equipment and seems to increase the frustration level when it doesn't consistently have enough traction to combat the condition.

Is the solution to just concede that no ball is going to have enough traction to counter the carrydown (if it's severe enough) and to simply go the opposite direction and use a weak ball (cover or drilling) and just shoot a realtively straight shot?

I admittedly do not have much hand, and tend to throw too fast (in fact...  a friend of mine insists that I do not roll the ball----instead that I just "push it down the lane"  And he could be right.  But when the backends are reasonably dry, I do not have a problem.

Any info ---- even if it is negative or laced with "operator error" comments or some humor is appreciated.


 

jdball299

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
Re: Best way to attack [apparent] carrydown
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2010, 09:31:00 AM »
Correct me if I am wrong, but are you speaking of the situation where your ball is just not finishing or is laboring to get back to the pocket?

If so it could be carry down or it could be a lack of head/midlane oil.  

Most of the time if a ball is laboring to get back or if I am leaving weak corners i will either move 2/1 in or ball down and square up a little simply because the head oil is more likely to go before the oil gets down the lanes with todays agressive resin balls.  This was not the case 8-10 years ago, rather a result of the way bowling and equipment has evolved.

If it is true carrydown, for instance a 2nd shift league fowling a women's league (plastic down the middle) going to a weaker ball and moving to a straighter line or slowing down a little is a good option.  Also a ball with decent survace and a low flare drilling will work well with a straighter shot...might not carry everything, but will get to the pocket on a consistant basis (depending on the operator of course).
--------------------
"...do or do not, there is no try."


St. Louis USBC Sport Bowling
Best Bowling Pro Shops Inc., St. Louis MO.

Neptune66

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 466
Re: Best way to attack [apparent] carrydown
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2010, 10:13:59 AM »
The ball finishes, but in a lazy sort of way.

It's not running out of steam as much as there seems to be no point at which there is a noticeable transition from the oil to the dry.

You could use the most skid-flippy ball there is, and it will not skid-flip. It will be an arcing motion .....even thrown by someone who DOES have a lot of hand.  

It's usually not a problem in the 1st game. Then.... sometime during the 2nd game, the carry deteriorates and the ball motion dminishes, and for me it is maddening.  

Wouldn't mind so much if it started out this way and remained the same throughout the 3 games.  But it's the complete opposite transition than what I experience in other houses (from medium or heavy oil to ligher oil).

Dan Belcher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3954
Re: Best way to attack [apparent] carrydown
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2010, 11:42:11 AM »
That sounds to me like what jdball299 said -- oil depleting in the middle and front part of the lane causes the ball to roll earlier on the lane, which causes it to expend more energy before it reaches the backend, which causes it to move less aggressively off the back of the pattern. You're simply not going to see the ball jump off the backend, even with a "skid/flip" ball in that circumstance.  You need to either square up and use weaker equipment once that happens, or move left and chase the oil and change your rotation slightly.  But you won't get the same motion you were getting before no matter what.

And your friend is right when he recommends trying to roll the ball.  When my carry starts getting bad, I tend to want to grab a little extra at the bottom and try to hook it more.  All I end up doing is creating more tilt but less rotation and the ball goes longer and hits flatter!  The more I try to just feel the thumb clear quickly and feel the ball just roll off the fingertips, the better my ball reads the lanes.

OddBalls

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3119
Re: Best way to attack [apparent] carrydown
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2010, 11:48:41 AM »
Depending on the head oil (or lack of it) a light load particle pearl is my first choice. If there is still a head oil, a light load particle solid does the trick
--------------------
Yes. it's I, the Inverted One..


Neptune66

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 466
Re: Best way to attack [apparent] carrydown
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2010, 12:08:27 PM »
Well...  one thing that does seem to help is lofting the ball somewhat farther down the lane, which would be consistent with the lane getting dryer in at the heads and mid portion of the lane.  Unfortunately, accuracy becomes a problem and I tend to abandon that practice after a couple of bad shots.

But when I have maintained the loft, it does seem that the ball retains some of it's energy at the end.  Still no flipping. But at least enough of an arc to cause a little mixing action.  Without doing that, it's like I'm thowing straight up the middle...even when I'm not.

scotts33

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8453
Re: Best way to attack [apparent] carrydown
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2010, 12:20:33 PM »
Neptune66,

Are you bowling on a fresh condition (clean backends)?  Surface of lanes?  Also is this a 5 man team/league or other number?  Is lane conditioning equipment well maintained?  
--------------------
Scott



Edited on 12/2/2010 1:23 PM
Scott

stopncrank

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 965
Re: Best way to attack [apparent] carrydown
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2010, 12:27:11 PM »
Maybe the house doesnt strip the backends properly? Sounds alot like what I encounter at one house I bowl in here. That particular house has a problem with backend reaction, or lack thereof for the most part. When you use stronger equipment here, it reads the fronts too early, and weaker stuff tends to not make the corner without a little surface on the cover.

Just a thought...alot of centers are cutting costs these days, and usually it starts with proper lane maintenence.
--------------------
Still taking your lunch money one strike at a time, just without a Mission in my bag....

Edited on 12/2/2010 1:27 PM
DV8 Regional Staff
www.coolwick.com

Neptune66

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 466
Re: Best way to attack [apparent] carrydown
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2010, 12:47:16 PM »
"Stopncrank",

You are describing exactly what I encounter.

It's a brunswick house and typically caters to the kids, so I would not be surprised if they dont bother with the backends.

It IS fresh oil.... at least some weeks.  And yet...  it feels like a medium shot until about 1/3 to 1/2 way through the night. Then gradually the shot is no longer a shot.... for me anyway.

stopncrank

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 965
Re: Best way to attack [apparent] carrydown
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2010, 01:43:35 PM »
quote:
"Stopncrank",

You are describing exactly what I encounter.

It's a brunswick house and typically caters to the kids, so I would not be surprised if they dont bother with the backends.

It IS fresh oil.... at least some weeks.  And yet...  it feels like a medium shot until about 1/3 to 1/2 way through the night. Then gradually the shot is no longer a shot.... for me anyway.


Im a higher rev guy, but Strider who posts on here bowls there too. On the fresh, you can get lined up, but when the transition hits and you have to move in, its hit or miss. You get no help from the backend, what i have found is it is better there to ball down and stay in the same general area and just adjust my speed to get the ball to face up. But, yeah it does sound like the same thing.
--------------------
Still taking your lunch money one strike at a time, just without a Mission in my bag....
DV8 Regional Staff
www.coolwick.com

jdball299

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
Re: Best way to attack [apparent] carrydown
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2010, 01:45:09 PM »
quote:
Well...  one thing that does seem to help is lofting the ball somewhat farther down the lane, which would be consistent with the lane getting dryer in at the heads and mid portion of the lane.  Unfortunately, accuracy becomes a problem and I tend to abandon that practice after a couple of bad shots.

But when I have maintained the loft, it does seem that the ball retains some of it's energy at the end.  Still no flipping. But at least enough of an arc to cause a little mixing action.  Without doing that, it's like I'm thowing straight up the middle...even when I'm not.


Lofting is one way to try to combat this phenomenon but as you highlighted, accruact will suffer.

Some other things you might try is a strong pearl with a weak drilling or even a weak solid with a Length drilling.  Square up and play a little up the back of the ball, rolling it more and don't give away more of the pocket than you have to....like I said earlier, you won't carry everything, but you get more consistant carry when you do hit the hole.
--------------------
"...do or do not, there is no try."


St. Louis USBC Sport Bowling
Best Bowling Pro Shops Inc., St. Louis MO.

Sikfish

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 171
  • Brian S.
Re: Best way to attack [apparent] carrydown
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2010, 01:56:39 PM »
I have seen this in the past also, sometimes see it now, but not very often. My solution is a mild to strong solid with a long pin drilling. My current ball is a MOTIV TR2 with a 6" pin with a 2000 ab + polish surface, does not flare much, doesn't hook much...but gives me a constant read to the pocket....IMHO

Neptune66

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 466
Re: Best way to attack [apparent] carrydown
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2010, 03:27:02 PM »
This does seem to match what I experience on these lanes.

Occasionally I have used a plastic (or old rubber) ball out of anger/frustration, and ironically had better results.

I attribute some of that to lowered expectations, but also the lack of movement was better than erratic movement that I couldn't regulate or predict.

Between that and some of the suggestions here, a weak reactive would seem to be better choice. In fact.... I have had more success (or less glaring failures) with my older reactives that were once aggressive, but no longer are.

Thank you.   Now I'm anxious to return to the lanes and have another go at them.

dougb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1551
Re: Best way to attack [apparent] carrydown
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2010, 09:50:28 PM »
I encountered the same situation last week.  Next week I'm bringing my Teal Rhino Pro and squaring up to go down-and-in.  Thanks for the thread on this!

rico4life

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 227
Re: Best way to attack [apparent] carrydown
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2010, 10:04:46 PM »
I have been bowling on what I would call a true carry-down condition, if that is what you are seeing the solution isn't really about traction. It is about where the ball picks up a roll, or you need a ball that reads the lane sooner. I usually do better with pin down balls and you might even want to try a rico drilled ball, you want something that reads the midlane sooner.