Author Topic: Biggest Hooking Ball (Read 7643 times)

trash heap · « **on:** September 26, 2011, 01:56:28 AM »

I was practicing last week. Guy next to me was talking to me about when he goes to the pro shop he tells them to get him the biggest hooking ball out there. His reasoning is because he doesn't put a lot of revs on the ball.

So he is trying to throw a dull hook monster on lanes that I use a Polished Urethane. He seemd frustrated with his bowling. He was hitting the pocket okay, but there was just nothing left in the ball.

When this person tells you they are thinking of buying another ball, and ask you for advice. What do you tell them?

TheBowlingKid25 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 26, 2011, 11:15:33 AM »

Tell them they need to understand the dynamics of bowling balls to understand why the dull hook monster isn't working for them. Besides, a dull hook monster probably hooks LESS than a polished medium hook ball on light oil because the dull ball probably rolls out way too fast. Tell them instead of worrying about hooking the ball, to try aiming it instead.

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nmbr1sun99 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 26, 2011, 11:56:42 AM »

Suggest he take a lesson. Then discuss with a pro shop who just wont sell the guy a hook monster but who will spend time explaining why he doesnt need a dull ball.

I agree, a dull ball, on a ths, will most likely burn up way too soon and just roll out. Why pay $250+ for a ball that fall flat.

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MTFD24 · « **Reply #3 on:** September 26, 2011, 12:21:38 PM »

There are a huge number of "bowlers" out there that would rather spend $200-$250 for a new ball to "improve" theit scores, than to spend the same amount or less for lessons that usually will improve their abilities and scores.

The pro shops are in business to please customers and hence make money....selling and drilling is usually the top priority. I had planned on taking this summer to get several lessons, and work on fundamentals. Unfortunately I herniated 3 lower discs and my plans blew up like my back. But as soon as I can hit the lanes...lessons, lessons and more lessons...the best money spent to increase your game.

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Dan Belcher · « **Reply #4 on:** September 26, 2011, 01:28:59 PM »

One thing that I try to use to explain this phenomenon is "it's not about how much it hooks -- it's about where it hooks." A crash course on skid/hook/roll usually makes enough sense that you can at least convince the guy maybe there are better options and he won't just ask the pro shop guy for the biggest hook monster in the shop.

strikeking · « **Reply #5 on:** September 26, 2011, 01:55:37 PM »

What this bowler needs is a ball that has a "big" or sharp backend reaction. Not overall hook.

Strikeking

Zanatos1914 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 26, 2011, 01:55:55 PM »

ProShop man has bills to pay... :-)

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dizzyfugu · « **Reply #7 on:** September 27, 2011, 12:25:43 AM »

Dan Belcher wrote on 26.09.2011 1:28 PM:
One thing that I try to use to explain this phenomenon is "it's not about how much it hooks -- it's about where it hooks." A crash course on skid/hook/roll usually makes enough sense that you can at least convince the guy maybe there are better options and he won't just ask the pro shop guy for the biggest hook monster in the shop.

Second that - and it is also a matter how the ball hooks, e .g. if it has a smooth breakpoint with a gradual rotational axis migration towards the core's PSA or a quick re-direction of the core, for a quick and violent skid/hook/roll transition.

Absolutely agree that this is the "typical" no hand bowler who rather makes investments in balls than in coaching or a bit of playing intelligence. I suppose that he'd be much better of with a polished mid range or even entry level piece, but the ego won't allow it and it is always the ball's, not the user's fault.

I know these guys well from league, I love the comments like "There's SO much oil out there, the ball does not move, you cannot play here at all!" while you stand there, pondering if you should try urethane next, because the pattern is so short and the oil so thin that even with a little hand anything reactive hooks early or dies away after 30'. And these guys toss matte heavy oil pieces around... (*sigh*).

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sheppy335 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 27, 2011, 12:58:50 PM »

Problem is they dont understand how the ball works and how the lanes are really played. They buy new ball and throw it hard hoping it will bend like a bannana. I know i was that guy, then a really good player in the league i was in slapped me hard a few times and said lets do bowling 101. He taught me how things worked and how you need different things for different conditions. It was a eye opener, but i am a better bowler for it.

I also agree the pro shop guy has to pay the bills, most will offer advice if you ask for it. But if you go in and tell him dull hook monster he will drill you one up! I would also if that was my lively hood!

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Leroy Taylor · « **Reply #9 on:** September 27, 2011, 01:27:46 PM »

Maybe for starters ( sense hook man probably won't be open to a weaker ball purchase) you can talk him into putting a high polish on one of those hook monsters. Hopefully he'll see the difference coverstock prep. has on his ball reaction ( @ 3-5 dollars) and will want to learn more from there. If you're even slightly convincing you should be able to sale the concept.

trash heap · « **Reply #10 on:** September 28, 2011, 08:34:30 AM »

I agree with a lot of replies here.

Leroy the hardest thing about selling the concept of polish is their view of the reaction. For these bowlers they have seen their ball start up early. Getting it polished it is now going longer and their eyes are not used to seeing. They feel they don't have any control. I have seen it many times that bowlers get that ball to go longer; don't like what it does; then sand it for more control. So now they are back in the same boat, except they have two balls with very similiar reactions. (I will admit that I was guilty of this).

It's almost like their preference is to have ball come in high (through the nose) instead of on the light side. Having a ball not turning enough into the pocket is worse of the scenarios (in their eyes). We understand that it requires a little bit adjustment and you can get the desired results. I guess the key is telling them that it will take some time.

Leroy Taylor wrote on 9/27/2011 1:27 PM:Maybe for starters ( sense hook man probably won't be open to a weaker ball purchase) you can talk him into putting a high polish on one of those hook monsters. Hopefully he'll see the difference coverstock prep. has on his ball reaction ( @ 3-5 dollars) and will want to learn more from there. If you're even slightly convincing you should be able to sale the concept.

ccrider · « **Reply #11 on:** September 28, 2011, 09:07:28 AM »

His pro shop is the problem. He goes to them trusting that they will lay the ball out to address his needs. Any reputable shop should inquire into what the guy is doing on the lanes, and then drill the ball according to his needs, and what he has in his arsenal, adjusting the cover as is necessary to obtain the desired outcome.

Why would you expect the averae bowler to understand cover and layout dynamics?

If he is getting the ball to the pocket the same way consistently, ie, repeating shots, he is doing better than most. He probably knows how to move his feet, adjust his speed or hand position. The pro shop should be able to punch up a ball for him to use during different phases of the lanes breaking down and explain to him how he should approach using them.

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trash heap · « **Reply #12 on:** September 28, 2011, 10:00:49 AM »

I know the Pro Shop owner he is talking about. The guy at the Pro Shop tells me stories like this all the time. So and so bowler walks into shop, state the current ball he has is not hooking enough on the lanes. Pro Shop suggests a certain ball. The ball is mid range, knowing the bowler and his specs, he has the necessary information for good layout. Sounds good!

Well the bowler wants to know a little about a ball he heard people discussing at the lanes. Its a monster of ball. Nothing close to what he is asking for. It is explained to him over and over again that its not what he needs. But it doesn't matter, he hears words and phrases like "Big Hook", "Strongest Ball ever Made" and he is sold on it.

Bowler wants the monster ball, the price is $70 more, but his thoughts, it hooks more, its stronger, therefore it must be better.

Now as a businessman what do you do?

I go with "The Customer is Always Right!". Of course he has no clue about what he is purchasing, but he is walking out the shop with a big smile on his face. He has the latest greatest ball that he thinks is best for him.

ccrider · « **Reply #13 on:** September 28, 2011, 10:09:56 AM »

Do pro shop owners consider themselves professionals or business people. What is there goal? To maximize profit or to build a steady clientel with satisfied customers.

As a professional, I listen to what my clients say they want, but will not say or do what they want just to make them happy or put a smile on their face. They ultimately expect that I will do what is in their best interest.

Sale the ball, but with the explanation that it is not going to solve the problem that the bowler is encountering, and that it is not the ball that he recommends. Then, drill the ball to come as close as you can to making it work, and adjust the cover too, if that is called for. Tell the client what you did and why you did it. You might have a client for life.

Or, sale the ball, drilled for maximum hook, and continue to wonder why you are losing buisiness.

Those that can do. Those that can't complain. Pimpin ain't easy, but it's mandatory.

Most things we like, we don't need. Most things we need, we don't like. Don't confuse your likes with your needs.

Impending Doom · « **Reply #14 on:** September 28, 2011, 12:06:31 PM »

As a pro shop operator, I had several instances of what is happening here. I had a very steady customer that liked to buy bowling balls and have them drilled as strong as possible. At one point, I had to have a sit down with him and say that he needed a different shape in the bag than hook a ton. I mean, he only plays down 5 for petes sake. I drilled him up something strong, but not too early, and laid it out for him differently than those he had before. He crushed with it! Loved it up and down. But next ball, he wanted it to hook more. OK. I tried. If you don't give him what he wants, he goes elsewhere.

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Author Topic: Biggest Hooking Ball (Read 7643 times)

trash heap

Biggest Hooking Ball

TheBowlingKid25

Re: Biggest Hooking Ball

nmbr1sun99

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MTFD24

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Dan Belcher

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strikeking

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Zanatos1914

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dizzyfugu

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sheppy335

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Leroy Taylor

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trash heap

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ccrider

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trash heap

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ccrider

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Impending Doom

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