Author Topic: Black Hammer vs. XXL -- to Bones and others (Read 2509 times)

JohnP · « **on:** January 20, 2004, 07:30:43 AM »

In the last month or so, I've pulled out my old black Hammer (16 lb), and have been scoring well with it. I am a low speed (13.5 mph @ 50 ft) stroker with medium revs and a track about 2 inches from the fingers and thumb. My only problem has been less carry than I want. The arcing path of the Hammer suits my game very well. With resin balls, even drilled weak, I have a lot of problems controlling the snap on the back end. Most of the time it snaps into the head pin or burns out in the midlane. My question, for those of you who have thrown both a Hammer (or similar urethane ball) and the Lane 1 XXL, is -- will the XXL give me the better carry I want without snapping so much I can't control it? Other ball suggestions are welcome, and cost is not a factor. Or will I be better off just to keep plugging away with the old Hammer? Thanks -- JohnP

Edited on 1/21/2004 11:23 AM

JohnP · « **Reply #1 on:** January 21, 2004, 10:25:43 AM »

Gene J Kanak · « **Reply #2 on:** January 21, 2004, 10:45:21 AM »

John,

I haven't thrown the XXL, but from my experience with the XXXL I can pretty much guarantee that the XXL is going to give you the hit that you're looking for. The only question that you'll need to ask yourself is how much ball do you need? The XXL has been reported by many to be a medium condition ball, not a dry condition ball. Therefore, if you think that you could benefit from that power then go ahead and get one. However, if you're looking for something to use on truly dry you might want to consider something else. The Slate Blue Gargoyle could be a nice option, or perhaps one of the new red pearl hammers. Although you've said that you don't have much luck with resin, you might also want to take a look at the V2 Dry. Most people claim that the ball goes longer than any other resin and gives a controlled arc on the backend before delivering a powerful punch at the pins. Just my .02.

Gene J. Kanak
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Bowling is without a doubt the dumbest, most pointless, most idiotic excuse for a game that has ever been invented. So, what time are we bowling tomorrow?

JohnP · « **Reply #3 on:** January 21, 2004, 11:08:39 AM »

Gene -- Thanks for the response. Our lanes are not dry. The house purchased a new Kegel Kustodian (I think) machine this season and is putting down a THS, with oil heavy 10 to 10 and lighter outside, with stripped back ends. But I learned to bowl in the early 70's with a Black Diamond on lacquer, and have not been able to consistently adjust to the big hooking balls. With my speed and revs, I can start the Hammer in the oil and swing to the dry with a total break of about 10 boards. But I leave a lot of corner pins. I'm looking for something with about the same amount of total hook that will carry the corners. -- JohnP

JohnP · « **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2004, 11:16:39 AM »

Sawbones -- Thanks for the response, you must have made it while I was responding to Gene. I'm sorry, I thought you had the XXL instead of the XXXL. I run a pro shop, so I'm my own driller, but have never worked with Lane 1 equipment. I am thinking about a relatively weak drilling, such as a 2 x 4 to keep the arc shape I like while increasing the carry. -- JohnP

charlest · « **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2004, 12:49:51 PM »

John,

Keep in mind that the Black Hammer is a solid urethane, while the XXL is a pearl. While a pearl urethane is not going to snap like a pearl resin, it will go longer and have more backend, especially with a 2 piece core (like the XXL) than even a polished Black Hammer. I used a polished 16 lb Black Hammer in a Summer league - all but impossible to get more than a gentle curve from that beastie without the revs and speed of a Robert Smith.
--------------------
"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."

JohnP · « **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2004, 09:51:25 PM »

charlest -- Thanks for the info on the XXL, I didn't realize it was a pearl. I do keep my Hammer polished to hold the break down. I've always stayed about one level of technology behind. When the urethanes came out, I was still using my trusty RotoStar rubber ball (remember that classic?). By the time the oil got heavy enough for me to move to the Hammer, everyone was starting to use the first resin balls. I guess when the next step of technology comes along, I'll be able to use resin. -- JohnP

charlest · « **Reply #7 on:** January 22, 2004, 04:24:27 AM »

JohnP,

You missed the next step - particle balls. Time to go to resin!

--------------------
"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."

atomized · « **Reply #8 on:** January 22, 2004, 07:58:27 AM »

JohnP I own the XXL, Thunderflash and the Old version of the Pearl Blue Hammer. All have label drills. Use the XXL in place of the Thunderflash now for med-light and use the Pearl Hammer for light oil. The covers at 1000 sheen. For me the look was almost the same between the TF and XXL, with slightly more hook and better pin action on the off hits.

If you want to take a slower step up then the XXL or Slate Blue should work. since you want more arc you might consider a 5x4 drilling.

JohnP · « **Reply #9 on:** January 22, 2004, 11:33:07 AM »

charlest -- I think of the particle balls as an extension of the resin technology rather than a new one, but that's a matter of opinion. I have tried resin balls, first a Triton Heat, then recently an AZO Red Fire (one of the milder two piece resin balls available). I can use either of them when there is plenty of oil, but at the first sign of breakdown, my tendency is to try to speed up, which just doesn't work for me - I lose most of my accuracy. With the Hammer I can adjust a board or two and hold the shot. If it would just knock down the corners! -- JohnP

JS · « **Reply #10 on:** January 22, 2004, 12:14:05 PM »

JohnP,

I had an XXL and there is no way that Lane1 could make me believe that there was no resin in the cover. It had great carry and sent messengers off both sidewalls with light hits but if you're looking for a ball that will give you the same "look" as the Hammer but with more carry, IMO I don't think the XXL is it. I think it will be too jumpy on the backend. I don't like to recommend equipment that I haven't seen or thrown myself but you may want to wait a few weeks until the Uranium Saw is released. I've talked with Lane1 testers and with the local Lane1 rep and I keep getting the same message....urethane look on the lane with pin smashing hit. Of course they're all going to say the pin smashing hit part (it's a saw, right

) but it's the "urethane look" that grabbed my attention. By lowering the RG and raising the diff, this ball should be all about midlane control and from what I'm hearing, no big snap on the back. A controlled arc into the pocket. May be what you are looking for.
Take care....JS

ps. If you don't want to go into a resin cover and really want to stay with pure urethane you may want to look at the Blue Slate. It has a strong core which should provide decent hit and let you keep the same look.

JohnP · « **Reply #11 on:** January 22, 2004, 03:10:03 PM »

JS -- Thanks for the info, I hadn't heard about the Uranium Saw coming out. I'll keep my eye out for it. Maybe I've misled people, I don't have any problem trying resin again, just haven't had much luck with it so far. I'll also check some info on the Blue Slate. Thanks again -- JohnP

charlest · « **Reply #12 on:** January 22, 2004, 05:41:38 PM »

quote:
charlest -- I think of the particle balls as an extension of the resin technology rather than a new one, but that's a matter of opinion.

In most logical ways they are just an extension, but in certain implementations, they provide the best combination of resin plus urethane: urethane control and resin backend, with the flippiness of resin. (not all resin balls are flippy, but that is their general characteristic.)

quote:
I have tried resin balls, first a Triton Heat, then recently an AZO Red Fire (one of the milder two piece resin balls available). I can use either of them when there is plenty of oil, but at the first sign of breakdown, my tendency is to try to speed up, which just doesn't work for me - I lose most of my accuracy. With the Hammer I can adjust a board or two and hold the shot. If it would just knock down the corners! -- JohnP

So, from all you say, your major problem is lack speed. I understand that. It can be a major problem with resins which do require more speed than urethanes, in general.

The Red Fire is one of the mildest of resin solid ball. It has or, better said, can have a very large backend, but is not so flippy, as it possesses a hard arcing trait. One of your harder hitting and energy conserving balls. Good choice!

In summary, I'd strongly recommend you try Visionary's Slate Blue Gargoyle. It supposedly hooks a little less than the Lane#1 XXL and costs less also. Cost may be an issue because, as an experiment, it could fail for you. The extra backend of the pearl urethane over the solid might do the trick for you: be able to better kick out corner pins.

--------------------
"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."

Edited on 1/22/2004 6:38 PM

JohnP · « **Reply #13 on:** January 22, 2004, 10:00:43 PM »

charlest & JS -- I have looked up the info on the Blue Slate and read the reviews on BR.com, and am impressed. I'm going to wait another week or so to see if any other suggestions come up, but will probably order one. I'm thinking about a 2x4 drilling - any other suggestions? My PAP is 4 5/8 over and 3/8 down. Yes, speed is my main problem and has been for 30+ years, at least on dry or breaking down conditions. I've tried and tried to throw faster, but for some reason it just doesn't work. You would think I could do better than 14 mph, since I'm 6'5" and 280 lbs! Thanks again for the Blue Slate recommendation. -- JohnP

charlest · « **Reply #14 on:** January 23, 2004, 08:41:52 AM »

John,

If 2x4 has worked for you before, it should work again, BUT a 2" pin position will make the ball hook earlier than a 4" or 4.5" pin position. A 2" and a 4.5" should roughly have equivalent flare. Actually, since you can easily plug and re-drill, I'd suggest, to decrease early hook , maybe you should start with a 4x5, pin under bridge, with a 2-3" pin ball. Pin on one side of the centerline, CG on the other. This is a dynamic core so the final side weights make less of a difference than with pancake core balls. If you don't like, plug it and redrill 2x4.

That weight, for 30+ years. OK, health and knees problems.
Lose some and you'll more easily be able to throw it faster. I am not light weight, so I know where you're coming from. I prefer medium speed but can hike that up if needs be. 6'5" is good; 280 is over the limit. Try only 20 lbs and see how you feel. Then you can try the normal add-speed-by-doing-X routines.
Honestly.

--------------------
"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."
"No good deed goes unpunished."

Author Topic: Black Hammer vs. XXL -- to Bones and others (Read 2509 times)

JohnP

Black Hammer vs. XXL -- to Bones and others

JohnP

Re: Black Hammer vs. XXL -- to Bones and others

Gene J Kanak

Re: Black Hammer vs. XXL -- to Bones and others

JohnP

Re: Black Hammer vs. XXL -- to Bones and others

JohnP

Re: Black Hammer vs. XXL -- to Bones and others

charlest

Re: Black Hammer vs. XXL -- to Bones and others

JohnP

Re: Black Hammer vs. XXL -- to Bones and others

charlest

Re: Black Hammer vs. XXL -- to Bones and others

atomized

Re: Black Hammer vs. XXL -- to Bones and others

JohnP

Re: Black Hammer vs. XXL -- to Bones and others

JS

Re: Black Hammer vs. XXL -- to Bones and others

JohnP

Re: Black Hammer vs. XXL -- to Bones and others

charlest

Re: Black Hammer vs. XXL -- to Bones and others

JohnP

Re: Black Hammer vs. XXL -- to Bones and others

charlest

Re: Black Hammer vs. XXL -- to Bones and others