Author Topic: Bones type question about young and old bowlers.... (Read 2492 times)

agroves · « **on:** February 11, 2004, 08:29:28 AM »

Okay, I was thinking about who is to blame for todays scoring fest. At first I pointed to ball companies, they continued to make hook in a box balls stronger until recently. Then I thought well maybe its the oil patterns that are to blame. It doesn't matter what you use if the oil pattern is tough then scoring decreases. I decided it was the oil pattern. Anyway on to the real question....

Well, during all the thinking (I almost hurt myself) a new question arose in my head. If all the "old school" bowlers were more accurate and more consistent with their speed, then why do todays "wall babies" have more honor scores. If the oil pattern is the same for everyone why aren't the old schoolers killing it. It would stand to reason that the older generation, that didn't have high powered bowling balls, would be averaging higher and would have more honor scores than wall babies. This is all assuming they are bowling on the same conditions and with same type ball.

My thoughts for what their worth,
andrew
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FUFU

Spray and Pray

Kid Jete · « **Reply #1 on:** February 11, 2004, 11:41:03 PM »

Because the younger generation has more speed and way more revs... atleast the guys you see scoring better on walled lanes do. All that speed and revs clears out the pins alot easier than someone stroking the ball down the lanes.

MSC2471 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 11, 2004, 11:46:06 PM »

Let's just say on the great wall that I sub on in Gardner, the guys throwing the 800 series and 300 games are the ones that can bounce it to the gutter at 17-18 mph with a ton of revs. The ones that play down and in or barely bend the ball consistently still average in the 210's, but rarely get beyond the 750 column in terms of series...

Matt

Pinbuster · « **Reply #4 on:** February 12, 2004, 07:35:22 AM »

In our area I would disagree, particularly if you are looking at average.

Depending on what you call the older players but I would say players in the late 30â€™s thru about 50 still dominate in here. In our scratch travel league the battle for high average is pretty evenly split between the old and the new. In fact I believe I average right now is carried by a gentlemen who is in his later 50â€™s. This league contains several collegiate all-Americans and future all-Americans.

As far as honor scores go, the kids donâ€™t think much about them and they are maxing out on every shot. So they donâ€™t seem to get a tight when a score is on the line. The old timers still feel the specialty of the score and tend to start placing the ball. They may throw a good shot accuracy wise but they slightly change the roll and the carry.

Because they are free wheeling the kids more likely to get away with a marginal shot but I see them throw more horrible shots under the pressure than the older players.

Pinbuster · « **Reply #5 on:** February 12, 2004, 07:38:14 AM »

Another thing about todayâ€™s scoring.

In the past almost all leagues were 5 person teams never less than 4 for mixed doubles.

Today you see a lot of leagues with only 2 or 3 on a pair. Makes bowling a lot easier when you can get in a rhythm and the lanes donâ€™t change as fast.

shotmaker · « **Reply #6 on:** February 12, 2004, 08:48:35 AM »

quote:
If the oil pattern is the same for everyone why aren't the old schoolers killing it.

In my area the "old schoolers" are killing it.

The Hose · « **Reply #7 on:** February 12, 2004, 09:12:53 AM »

Andrew,
In our little 16 lane house, the age of the top averages are:
228- by a 46 yr old house bowler
228- 43 yr old
220- 26 yr old
217-68 yr old

The younger guys 19 to 25 have must of the honor scores but not the averages.
They younger guys are "Flingers" who will shoot big when the have 6 to 8 boards but struggle when they need to hit a shot. They are on the must part very poor spare shooters.

The older guys may not have the big game or sets, but they are consistant and make spares.

Traveling League in Tulsa we have the same thing. The young guys will blast Sheridan where the carry is great and they have a wall to play on. They have a difficult time in some of the other house and even try to skip them so their averages are still high. Top three in TL are ages 46, 39, 34.
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CLIQUE MEMBER

no1bucsfan · « **Reply #8 on:** February 12, 2004, 09:41:57 AM »

It is obvious that bowling needs a third age group. The in-betweeners, young would by 25 and under, in-betweener would be 26-59, and old school would be 60-whatever.

And the truly dominant group should be the in-betweener, They have the power of the young and some of the knowledge of the old school, put together this group should easily dominate any other group.
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You can always hit em hard when you've got the balls

Lefties are the only people in their right minds.

no1bucsfan

Kid Jete · « **Reply #9 on:** February 12, 2004, 10:13:44 AM »

Well this discussion branched off a bit. Groves was wondering why the younger guys score better on walled lanes, where speed and revs make a huge difference carry wise because it allows the bowlers to miss the pocket slightly and have a better chance of carrying. When the conditions are tough you'll notice the older guys that are more accurate and consistent will hold the better averages and even the few honor scores if there is any. The young guys hold more honor scores on the easy conditions but when they need experience, alot of times it shows.

JohnP · « **Reply #11 on:** February 13, 2004, 01:01:17 PM »

agroves -- I agree with most of what has been said regarding higher scores caused by oil patterns and "old school" versus "new school" bowlers. I would like to address a different part of your original post, why it happened and who is responsible. There is a lot more on this on the PBA "past bowlers" forum under the Billy Hardwick thread that has been mentioned in other posts.

When the transition between lacquer and urethane finishes first happened in the late 60's and early 70's, the urethane finishes did not score as well because the oil did not hold up. Human nature being what it is, the bowlers migrated to those houses that were still using lacquer. Then the managers of the houses using urethane realized that to keep their business they had to do something. So they started fiddling with the oiling machines, especially the B-90's that were easy to modify, and set up a condition that scored well, called a block. And the bowlers migrated from the lacquer houses (which were becoming rare because of the danger of fire while refinishing the lacquer surfaces) back to the urethane houses. Pretty soon all the houses were blocked and any house that had competition that didn't block didn't have much business. And it is the same way today, any house that doesn't put out an easy shot loses business.

So who's to blame? To quote the famous philosopher, Pogo, "We have seen the enemy and he is us!" Stop bowling in houses with easy shots and flat oil patterns will come back. Of course, I really don't expect that to happen. -- JohnP

Strider · « **Reply #12 on:** February 16, 2004, 03:08:15 AM »

http://forum.pba.com/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=001014
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Penn State Proud

charlest · « **Reply #13 on:** February 16, 2004, 08:54:47 AM »

I'd strongly suggest that everyone read and re-read carefully Liquid Tension's reply.

It makes a good deal of sense and I am 100% positive it was written from experience, as he is one of the most accurate players I have ever seen throw a ball in more than 40 years of my observing bowlers. He is easily ranked up there in the top 10 bowlers who have been known for accuracy (Hardwick, Cater, Williams, etc.).
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"Just because you can do something does not mean you should do it."

agroves

Re: Bones type question about young and old bowlers....

agroves

Re: Bones type question about young and old bowlers....