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Author Topic: Booth operators at Nationals, opinions?  (Read 7306 times)

Gizmo823

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Booth operators at Nationals, opinions?
« on: May 17, 2014, 02:43:10 PM »
I feel like depending on which booth you go to, some guys seem really good and other guys seem really bad.  Had a friend get a ball drilled at the Ebonite booth, told them he wanted long and strong, and they gave him like a 30x3x30 on a Pivot.  Ball was rolling in his backswing and he's already gotten rid of it.  Had another friend that got a Venom Shock at the Motiv/Visionary booth.  I told the driller all my buddy's specs, and when I was telling him the thumb oval, I said it was a .090 oval at 45 degrees, and he didn't know what I was talking about.  He asked what the cuts were, and so I said 3 cuts of .021 both right and reverse.  He still didn't get it so he just took my buddy over to some weird old fitting ball and did it that way.  Then he was talking about layout, looked at my buddy's Revolt, and said, "Oh, we don't want to drill it 'stacked' like this one (apparently stacked means the pin to cg line is parallel to the grip centerline no matter where the fingers are at), we want to kick the cg out 20 degrees."  I told him I knew my buddy's PAP if he wanted it, and he said, "Nah, we don't need that."  Didn't ask rev rate, speed, anything.  Those are the guys you can't tell whether they know what they're doing and are just using old terminology in an attempt to communicate, or if they have zero clue what they're doing.

I can watch somebody throw a ball and drill something for them without getting a PAP or using dual angle numbers because I understand the concepts, but I guess I'm not sure why you wouldn't use them.  Drilling a ball for someone to use at nationals, maybe you don't need to go overboard or get ridiculous, but I'd think you'd at least want to know something about the person you're drilling for . .
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

 

nextbowler

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Re: Booth operators at Nationals, opinions?
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2014, 10:47:01 PM »
In my opinion the quality of the work for the Ebonite brands has dropped considerably this year.  I believe that it is because of a change in operaters.

Pinbuster

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Re: Booth operators at Nationals, opinions?
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2014, 06:03:08 AM »
I've always felt that if you have the ability to run a successful proshop then you couldn't take months off to go to Nationals.

So I've always been suspect of the abilities of the booth personnel.

bass

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Re: Booth operators at Nationals, opinions?
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2014, 07:47:26 AM »
I agree with Pinbuster.
free agency it is until i get a better offer.   LMAO

avabob

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Re: Booth operators at Nationals, opinions?
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2014, 12:15:48 PM »
There have been some really great people in the booths over the years, but it is getting less and less common. On the rare occasions that I do buy something on site, I lay my own stuff out, so all I am looking for is a driller who can get my span and pitches correct.  I don't think it is possible for any ball driller to give a guy an optimum layout for his individual game without knowing more about the bowler than can typically be learned by a guy on sight. 

BigBaller

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Re: Booth operators at Nationals, opinions?
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2014, 01:39:25 PM »
I had the young guy in the storm booth lay out and drill a Marvel S for me and he did a fantastic job. I was in the back while he was drilling and he was awesome.

Dave81644

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Re: Booth operators at Nationals, opinions?
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2014, 02:01:23 PM »
i have had multiple pieces drilled at the Ebonite both over the years and they have done a prefect job
did not do it this year though

Strapper_Squared

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Re: Booth operators at Nationals, opinions?
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2014, 02:27:37 PM »
Yeah.. Past years K & K ran the Ebonite booth.  They were outbid this year and someone else is running it.  I've heard multiple reports now around their "service".

I listened to the Visionary spiel as well...   we'll drill you up an XX with a arc layout.  I think they "Frankie" drill everything with a few standard, flare safe layouts that generally work ok.  Generally seemed to be in full on used car salesman mode.  No idea what I had, how I threw the ball, or what I needed, but trying to tell me what I should buy and how it will be laid out to work for me.  I think it's a shame Motiv is getting pulled into that as well.

Ii visited the Brunswick booth and had a great experience.  Talked for a while about scores and equipment.  Had them check my fit/span.  Suggested a small tweak in pitches/span.  Knowledgable, took the time to chat help out.

Scott
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avabob

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Re: Booth operators at Nationals, opinions?
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2014, 02:48:40 PM »
K & K is pretty good.  I have had a lot of their guys in Vegas drill stuff for me, and never had a bad experience.  Again though, I am not looking for layout advice, just someone who can hit my span and pitches. 

Pat Patterson

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Re: Booth operators at Nationals, opinions?
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2014, 07:22:33 AM »
I miss Kent Wagner when he ran the Lane Masters booth, he would let me pick out stuff off the rack and even loaned me a Dolly to transport them to my car.
Pat Patterson

Gizmo823

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Re: Booth operators at Nationals, opinions?
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2014, 07:50:57 AM »
I gathered about the same . . The guys at the Brunswick and Storm booths always seem good.  Ryan Ciminelli was at the Brunswick booth while we were there, pretty cool to meet and talk to him for a bit, but yeah when a guy says he wants long and strong and you do "stacked leverage" with a P3 hole on one of the stronger balls on the market . .
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

itsallaboutme

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Re: Booth operators at Nationals, opinions?
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2014, 07:55:45 AM »
The thing with the booths at Nationals is that most people expect it to be a showcase for manufacturers to expose 500 new people every day to the latest and greatest.  Since it is bid out and run by subcontractors it has become a way to move closeouts and maximize profits.

As for staffing of the booths it is hit or miss.  These guys usually work 5 1/2 or 6 days a week for not much money and a shared apartment.  So it comes down to who will do it, not are you the best we can have there.

As for the long and strong, I can count on one hand the number of people I've dealt with in the last 25 years that didn't ask for this when they walked into the pro shop.

Gizmo823

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Re: Booth operators at Nationals, opinions?
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2014, 09:50:44 AM »
Haha and the rest of them ask for the biggest hooking ball you have . .

The thing with the booths at Nationals is that most people expect it to be a showcase for manufacturers to expose 500 new people every day to the latest and greatest.  Since it is bid out and run by subcontractors it has become a way to move closeouts and maximize profits.

As for staffing of the booths it is hit or miss.  These guys usually work 5 1/2 or 6 days a week for not much money and a shared apartment.  So it comes down to who will do it, not are you the best we can have there.

As for the long and strong, I can count on one hand the number of people I've dealt with in the last 25 years that didn't ask for this when they walked into the pro shop.
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

Jorge300

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Re: Booth operators at Nationals, opinions?
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2014, 10:03:36 AM »
I have had varying degrees of success buying balls at Nationals. One year I bought a ball from the Storm booth, a 16lb Special Agent. They did a good job drilling it, except for the fact that the ball was only 15lbs. It was fine while I was throwing it, but as soon as I switched to something else, I couldn't figure out why my timing was off a little and the other balls felt like they weighed a ton. I have had a few others that turned out fine. Unfortunately, it's a crap shoot. While I used to buy a ball every year when I went to Nationals, over the last 4-5 years, I think I have only bought 1.
 
I think the biggest issue is, most of the people going to Nationals think these booths are run by the manufacturers themselves. They don't realize that they are subcontracted out. I hadn't realized K&K wasn't running the Ebonite booth this year, as I saw some of the same people there working it. Through the years, as I have learned more about drilling and laying out equipment (by far the weakest part of my game), I tend to think your local driller/pro shop is the best place to use, even for Nationals. They know your game and they can help you pick a ball and a layout that will, theortically, work the best.
Jorge300

txbowler

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Re: Booth operators at Nationals, opinions?
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2014, 10:34:25 AM »
If you can catch Chris Castro at the Hammer/Ebonite booth.  He was one of the goto guys here in Dallas and then last year one of the big Florida shops hired him away to run one of their bigger shops somewhere in Florida and he has been in Reno the last 2 years.

He's the one person I'll deal with when I'm there in a few weeks.

A lot of the top bowlers here in Dallas dealt with him before he moved to Florida.