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Author Topic: Bowl league = NO UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE  (Read 4207 times)

MTFD24

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Bowl league = NO UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE
« on: November 26, 2003, 03:41:21 PM »
Please read the following and respond..this is for real, and you or someone you know may be next. This could follow into your state as well!

Labor Department declares bowling "work";
Buffalo bowler appeals case to Supreme Court

Amateur bowlers of New York State, pay attention! Unless you help, a law may soon be entered on the books that will impact you, if and when you apply for, or receive, unemployment benefits.

The New York State Department of Labor considers you to be employed on any day that you participate in the recreational activity of league bowling, merely on the fact that you will receive some "income" from your league's prize fund at the end of the season. It does not matter to the Administrative Judge, or to the Unemployment Insurance Appeal Board that the amount of money you get back at the end of the season will (most likely) be less than the sum of your entry fees, resulting in a net loss.

As far as the Department of Labor is concerned, if you bowled in a league, or in a small local tournament (for amateurs), where you had the potential to make any money at all, however small, in their distorted view you were "not totally unemployed" on the day(s) that you bowled, and, therefore, you were not eligible to receive unemployment benefits on those days. If you received benefits for those days that you bowled, you will be required to pay them back.

Furthermore, if you neglected to mention at the time of initially filing for a claim for benefits that you are engaged in an "activity" which, in their view, brings in income, or which may bring in income, you will be guilty of making a "false" statement for the purposes of obtaining unemployment benefits.

Similarly, during your claim, if you certify weekly via the Tel-Service phone line that you did not work during the past week, even though you did go bowling during that past week, the Department of Labor will interpret that you were also making "false" statements when you re-certified for benefits. Not only will you have to pay back your benefits, but the Department of Labor will also use your own responses to their vague questions to prove that you were making "false" statements — a somewhat circumspect way of calling you a liar, a cheat, and a fraud.

As a consequence, you will face severe penalties that will result in your being ineligible to receive unemployment benefits again until a (quite prolonged) penalty phase elapses.

But all is not lost - not yet anyway.

The New York State Supreme Court, Appellate Division (3rd Department) will soon be reviewing my appeal. I, John-Michael Battaglia, am a western New York bowler whom the Department of Labor has singled out in its attempt to establish new case law that will ultimately affect millions of New York State's bowlers.

As a long-time amateur bowler who participates in league bowling and in an occasional local tournament, I continued to engage in bowling activities while receiving unemployment benefits several years ago, never realizing that, in the eyes of the Department of Labor, I was allegedly "employed" every time that I bowled, thus making me "not totally unemployed," and therefore not eligible to receive benefits, on those days that I bowled.

By accusing me of making "false" statements to obtain unemployment benefits, the Department of Labor was able to examine my old records and issue a Re-Determination that declared me "ineligible" to receive benefits on all those days that I bowled.

If the Department of Labor wins its case against me, I will be ordered to pay back those benefits and to suffer a penalty for alleging making "false" statements to obtain benefits in the first place. At a Hearing, an Administrative Judge sanctioned the Department of Labor's findings; at an appeal to the Unemployment Insurance Board, the Board rubber-stamped the Judge's ruling, without commenting on it in any substantive detail.

On my own behalf — as well as on behalf of all the millions of bowlers, lottery ticket buyers, bingo players, and others who participate in similar recreational activities that have the potential to bring in "income" and thereby render themselves ineligible to receive unemployment on the day they bowled, bought a lottery ticket, went to a gambling casino, or played bingo — I am taking my appeal to the New York State Supreme Court.

I have written a legal Brief stating my case, but would greatly appreciate it if I could include, as an Exhibit, letters from other bowlers who share my belief that bowling in a recreational league as an amateur does not constitute being employed, being self-employed, or going to work. It's something we, as amateur bowlers, do for fun.

I maintain that I could not possibly have made a "false" statement when asked by the Department of Labor whether I had "worked" in the past week, or whether I was engaged in any "activity" that brought in income, because I do not consider bowling a job, nor as an activity that brings me any positive cash flow.

If you, too, believe that bowling is not work. If you, too, think that you would have answered "No" to the questions asked by the Department of Labor on its application form and via its Tel-Service phone line as to whether you would think of bowling as "work", then you can help to prevent this bizarre perception by the Department of Labor from turning into case law that will be a precedent for other abusive interpretations of the Labor laws. If you, too, are shocked to learn that the Department of Labor wants to consider that you are "working" when you are bowling in a recreational league with your friends, then you need to make the Supreme Court hear your voice now.

Write a letter, or send me an e-mail, that I can include with my Brief to the Court. Write as if you are talking to the Court itself. Explain in your words how you view your participation in the recreational activity of league bowling. Do you believe that going bowling as an amateur is a form of employment or not? Indicate how you would answer this question on the unemployment application form: "Do you have any business or are you engaged in any activity that brings in or may bring in income?" (Mention whether the idea of bowling would even come into your mind at all when answering that question.)

Also, indicate how you would respond to the question posed by the automated voice on the Tel-Service phone line: "Did you work, including self-employment, in the week ending ...?"

To win this case and to stop the Department of Labor from establishing case law that could open up a flood gate that will impact millions of bowlers (and others) across New York State, I need your letters and emails to prove that I am not alone in the belief that my participation in bowling did not constitute "work" that rendered me "not totally unemployed" and ineligible for unemployment benefits.

Send your letters to:
John-Michael Battaglia, 53 Montrose Avenue, Buffalo, NY 14214.

Send your emails to: jmbattaglia@adelphia.net, with the words Bowling Brief in the subject line to distinguish your e-mail from junk e-mail.

Time is short! I need to receive all your letters and e-mails by Friday, December 12th to include them with the Brief. Bowlers interested in reading the Brief should send me an email request.

Thank you for your help,


John-Michael Battaglia
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CoachJim

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Re: Bowl league = NO UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2003, 07:03:27 AM »
That is why God gave us the ability to lie.

Just check "NO" in the box that asks "do you participate in any sports that you can earn money from?"

michelle

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Re: Bowl league = NO UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2003, 08:20:05 AM »
I know Bob's comment was probably meant in jest, but this really does come down to the crux of what the IRS looks at in determining whether bowling was a hobby for the taxpayer or a business...if did not bowl with the intent of making money and cannot show a profit three out of five years, it was a hobby.  

It might be worth getting a current letter ruling from the IRS because the position of the State is going to conflict with the federal position, and if New York has a state income tax, could create a situation by which EVERY bowler could then write off league expenses as an offset to any winnings.

Doug Sterner

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Re: Bowl league = NO UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2003, 08:47:53 AM »
I agree with Michelle here...if bowling is indeed viewed asa business, then all NY state bowlers need to file for tax exempt status for the purchase of our bowling equipment as "tools of the trade" as well as get receipts for our league dues and weekly fees and turn those in as well.

I wonder if ABC has any stand on this? Perhaps they have a statement somewhere in the rule book about it being a recreational activity or something.

This would really put a monkey wrench into guys like my father in law and myself who live in PA but bowl in NY. What about all of the guys who participate in the big tournies like the Lilac? They would all need to be sent forms to file on their winnings.

Legislation as such is going to open a BIG can of worms.
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Urethane Game

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Re: Bowl league = NO UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2003, 10:02:19 AM »
Did you bowl this week?
Were you able to bowl this week?
Will you sub this week?



Happy Thanksgiving!
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MTFD24

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Re: Bowl league = NO UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2003, 12:54:35 PM »
I have known John Michael for quite sometime, and urge everyone to at least e-mail him a quick response as requested, regardless of what state you are in. I am also drawing up a petition letter to circulate through the bowling leagues, supporting him against this ridiculous situation. ALL support will be appreciated, and may well indeed come to help someone you know in the future.

As per Michelle and Doug's thoughts regarding the IRS, this is being looked into.

Thanks in advance.
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The Older We Get, The Better We Were
www.MTFD.com - a NY State Vol. Fire Department
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michelle

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Re: Bowl league = NO UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2003, 01:08:33 PM »
Interesting reading in some of the stuff on the official Labor site...

Interpretations at http://www.labor.state.ny.us/business_ny/unemployment_insurance/interp/InterpService.htm would seem to run contrary to a blanket denial unless he is bowling on a nightly basis.  Even then, using the logic in addressing certain public officials that meet only occasionally and with a per-meeting stipend, it seems difficult to claim the bowling as employment.

I doubt there is anything in there that addresses bowling or any sports specifically, but the key is to keep the arguments within the parameters of existing precendent, which is precisely what those guides offer up.  Factoring in the tax component, and it would seem difficult to place the regular league bowler in the category of employed through bowling...especially since to do so potentially establishes a trigger for an audit of all bowlers in the State of New York that did not file a Schedule C on their tax return.  



Edited on 11/27/2003 2:06 PM

MTFD24

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Re: Bowl league = NO UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2003, 05:46:37 AM »
Michelle, thanks, and I will pass this along to JM, although knowing him he has it memorized inside and out

Just remember, this can happen to anyone, in any state! Unemployment Insurance is something YOU paid into. What will be the next goverment ruling or regulation to suppress us?

Please support a fellow bowler and send an e-mail or letter, it doesn't matter where you live. Thanks, I know your support will be of great assistance.
--------------------
The Older We Get, The Better We Were
www.MTFD.com - a NY State Vol. Fire Department
www.BowlWNY.com - local & national stories by Joe Ciccone
http://www.FDracing.com The worlds fastest firemen in the origional Xtreme Games
www.MTFD.com - a NY State Vol. Fire Department

www.FDracing.com The world

joegunn

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Re: Bowl league = NO UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2003, 11:57:05 AM »
Using that logic, will PBA tour members who make money this year, but do not finish in the top 50 for exemption next year be eligible for unemployment benefits?

jmb

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Re: Bowl league = NO UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2003, 02:08:26 PM »
As self-employed businessmen, PBA bowlers would probably not be eligible to obtain unemployment benefits because they work for themselves. They are not  employed by anyone; they draw no regular paycheck; no employer pays into a State-run unemployment fund from which a professional bowler can draw their benefits.  In essence, their labor is not considered "covered" employment. This is the situation any self-employed person faces regarding unemployment benefits. Unless the new owners of the PBA turn the elite qualifiers into "employees," those who don't make the cut this year may be in for a rough transition.

Back to the main topic of this forum, which was started by a fellow bowler in Buffalo, NY...

Anyone interested in getting more information or in  tracking the development of this case can visit the web site I've set up at ...

http://users.adelphia.net/~jmbattaglia


There I've posted the Judge's decision and the Unemployment Insurance Appeal Board's decision, against which I am appealing, as well as the Briefs I've written, samples of letters of support that I have received from bowlers around the country, and other pertinent information and links.

Perhaps those who need to review the other side of the story can get  the information they require to formulate a better understanding of the issues.

The bowling reporter of local newspaper, the Buffalo News, carried an article on this issue on December 6th. You can find it free (for about a week before it is archived) at ...

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20031206/1008471.asp


John-Michael Battaglia

9andaWiggle

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Re: Bowl league = NO UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2003, 12:43:46 PM »
Now I'm curious as to how many other states have such an obscure view of employment in this situation?  Surely it has to be on the books in other states as well.  Any info, or advice on where we could search for such info by state?

Good Luck John.  And BTW, I would NEVER have considered league bowling or bowling in small time tournaments to be employment!


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MTFD24

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Re: Bowl league = NO UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2003, 11:43:56 PM »
As to how anyone spends their Unemployment BENEFITS is really up to them. This is a BENEFIT they have EARNED. Unemployment benefits are not determined by need or necessity. Do you know if the person involved has a spouse that is financially wealthy? Maybe the person has a nice savings account? Regardless, Unemployment Benefits are just that, a BENEFIT, that was earned by working.
Personally I have worked for over 30 years full-time, and not once have I collected unemployment benefits. However, the point of the REAL issue is not how the money is spent!
Back to the POINT! The NY State goverment is saying that bowling in ANY league is a potential income earning venture, and you become denied your BENEFITS for those days you bowl in a league. How many LEAGUE bowlers consider bowling a money making venture? Please add up ALL your expenses, league fees, even transportation, tape, etc. Then deduct monies won. Hmmm....how many come out ahead? Imagine the average person filing long forms for the IRS to utilize these losses.
What is next....Bingo, golf leagues (watch out Bones), lottery tickets ? Big Brother is watching, 1984 is REAL! If this goes through and sets a precedent, who's state is next?
If you do not want yourself, a relative, friend or fellow bowler hurt by this in the future, send a letter of support NOW, regardless where you reside.
Thanks for allowing me to rant like the Guinea Pig....ooops...sorry Hamster
--------------------
The Older We Get, The Better We Were
www.MTFD.com - a NY State Vol. Fire Department
www.BowlWNY.com - local & national stories by Joe Ciccone
http://www.FDracing.com The worlds fastest firemen in the origional Xtreme Games
www.MTFD.com - a NY State Vol. Fire Department

www.FDracing.com The world

Gallandro

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Re: Bowl league = NO UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2003, 12:00:14 AM »

 I don't want to sound unnecessarily harsh here, but in a sense the state has a point. The purpose of unemployment is to pay your bills and keep food on your table until you get another job. Bowling in a league is a money making opportunity, both in jackpots and the payouts at the end of the year. The same goes for the Casinos and the lottery. Strictly speaking, the lottery is gambling albeit on a minor scale and this is contrary to what those unemployment monies are for.

  Case in point. I am currently unemployed. Because of this I stopped participating in all of my leagues because I didn't want to stick my teammates with finding another bowler if I had to quit and because I didn't want to limit my options on what shift I could work.

 You can agree or disagree with the above statements, that is your right but let me ask you this: Do you claim jackpot winnings and tournament winnings as income when you file your taxes?

 Nothing is ever either black or white, there are too many different shades of grey.

 Gallandro
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MTFD24

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Re: Bowl league = NO UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2003, 12:27:03 AM »
Hmmm, not enough money to live and bowl one night a week because of being on unemployment. Then don't bowl, and you are respected for that. But if you have the money, why should you not have any recreational activity? maybe we need to toughen the Unemployment Benefits, since many believe they are the same as welfare. If you are unemployment the following restrictions should maybe then apply:
No Recreational Activities (bowling, golf, lottery tickets, gambling including playing nickle/dime poker with friends)
No Internet usage...close all accounts!
No Driving....unless to grocery store, or job interviews.
Food/Beverage Purchases...a list will be provided, and if caught buying any frivolous items you get NO Unemployment.
The list can go on forever...this is not welfare, and no one should judge another without knowing their situation.
Again, this is a BENEFIT that the individual has earned.
If I personally added up all my expenses, and all my "winnings" including any jackpots, etc., I would surely be in the red, and thus deducting my losses.
There is also a law in NY that if you "earn" more than $600.00 a 990 form is a MUST, and that is also provided to the IRS.
To reiterate, I applaud those that take financial responsibility, and know their limitations. But why are one person's limitations being imposed on another?
--------------------
The Older We Get, The Better We Were
www.MTFD.com - a NY State Vol. Fire Department
www.BowlWNY.com - local & national stories by Joe Ciccone
http://www.FDracing.com The worlds fastest firemen in the origional Xtreme Games
www.MTFD.com - a NY State Vol. Fire Department

www.FDracing.com The world

jmb

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Re: Bowl league = NO UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2004, 07:23:51 PM »
Whether I prevail in my Appeal to the New York State Supreme Court or not, some good may come out of my efforts to defend myself and the rights of amateur bowlers to receive unemployment benefits while we bowl.

In a recent article in the Buffalo News, columnist Milt Northrop reported that a New York State senator, responding to published reports about my plight, will be proposing an amendment to the New York State Labor Code that will explicitly eliminate recreational bowling from being considered as "employment" that would render amateur bowlers ineligible to receive benefits on the days that we bowl.

For the full story, go to:

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20040103/1056482.asp

Updates and changes have been posted at my web site. Those wishing to track the progress of this issue should check in at my web site, which is at:

http://users.adelphia.net/~jmbattaglia/

Follow the link to the "Updates and Changes" page to see what has changed.

Rather than repeat here what I have said elsewhere, I refer you to the "Bowling Talk" forum at the ABC's web site, where I have made a lengthy reply to some of the key issues in this matter. There is a direct link to the forum from my web site.

John-Michael Battaglia