Post by: Nicanor on September 16, 2009, 01:46:07 AM
running out a potential strike.
The bowler on lane 13 threw the ball starting running out the potential strike
went past lane 14 and onto lane 15. The bowler on lane 15 was on the approach beginning his approach toward the foul line when he caught the bowler running toward him as he was running out the potential strike. This made the bowler on lane 15 mad and an argument was started. I don't know if there is a rule to cover this, but some say he has the right to run out a strike. If true, how many lanes? If a bowler is suppose to stay in his own lane and not run out strikes to and though other lanes, is it in writing in the USBC handbook? If not, the "just be courteous" will not work. If there isn't something in writing that says they can't run out strikes and should stay in their own lane, then this will be a continuing problem.
Thank you,
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Edited on 9/16/2009 9:46 AM
Post by: mainzer on September 16, 2009, 09:48:09 AM
--------------------
''Don't you Forget their is a price
you can pay.
Cause I am the Game!
And I wanna Play!''
-MotorHead Song ''THE GAME''-
MainzerPower
Post by: dizzyfugu on September 16, 2009, 09:53:07 AM
--------------------
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section (http://"http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=74110&ForumID=16&CategoryID=5")
Post by: Rev_O on September 16, 2009, 09:55:16 AM
--------------------
Rev-O
Check out www.springerrescue.org and help save the life of an English Springer Spaniel!
Post by: BowlingWolf on September 16, 2009, 09:56:32 AM
The bowler that got mad was right (and a bigger problem could've occurred had there been a collision), and the clown running out the strike should've gotten his lights punched out for arguing.
--------------------
We will be known forever by the tracks we leave.
Post by: Nbgiant25 on September 16, 2009, 10:13:59 AM
--------------------
University of North Texas Bowling
National Rank: 22
2008-2009 SWIBC Champions
http://www.meangreenbowling.com
http://www.900global.com
Post by: Nicanor on September 16, 2009, 10:31:31 AM
thanks for the replies.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: trash heap on September 16, 2009, 10:34:02 AM
Post by: pop_1 on September 16, 2009, 10:41:03 AM
Post by: triggerman on September 16, 2009, 10:47:10 AM
--------------------
www.bowlingballexchange.com
Triggerman
F.O.S Loud, F.O.S. Proud
Lane #1 Baby
Post by: kmanestor22 on September 16, 2009, 10:48:56 AM
--------------------
Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer
Post by: laddog54 on September 16, 2009, 10:51:21 AM
quote:
I think the bowler on lane #15 should have given the bowler from lane #13 a nice big fat blind sided elbow. He'd then think 2x before running out anything!
--------------------
Rev-O
I have actually done this. After the third time the guy ran in front of me I just didn't stop my approach. I caught him with my left shoulder as he was turning ball in my backswing. Just kept driving and knock him 15 feet out onto the lane in frt of me. Last time he ran a strike out for the rest of that league.
Check out www.springerrescue.org and help save the life of an English Springer Spaniel!
--------------------
ROTO GRIP - King of Them All
Post by: on September 16, 2009, 12:03:05 PM
It's a nuisance! Why should anyone have to watch some jerk to make sure he won't run in front of them while they were trying to deliver a shot?
Maybe if everyone on BOTH sides of these idiots would return the favor, and even run out their spares for that matter, they'd see that it's not in the best interest of the league to allow that to happen.
Your league can adopt it's own rule against it, so who cares whether or not it's mentioned in the USBC rule book.
--------------------
Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Post by: pnj1967 on September 16, 2009, 12:06:19 PM
+1
quote:
I think the bowler on lane #15 should have given the bowler from lane #13 a nice big fat blind sided elbow. He'd then think 2x before running out anything!
--------------------
Rev-O
Check out www.springerrescue.org and help save the life of an English Springer Spaniel!
--------------------
Post by: azguy on September 16, 2009, 12:14:31 PM
Needless to say, our league hasn't had a problem since. I will always give the lane next to me courtesy, allowing anyone who wants to do that the room to do so but 2 or more lanes down ? Enter at your own risk.
--------------------
az guy aka: R & L Bowlers Pro
rlbowlerspro@cox.net
Post by: J_w73 on September 16, 2009, 12:42:12 PM
quote:
Make it a league rule. Unless he touched the bowler on 15, there is no interference. In junior league, an idiot intentionally ran up behind another kid who had a 300 going. Needless to say the kid missed his strike. While the perpetrator was suspended for his behavior, the bowler does not get that shot back.
--------------------
Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer
That is the most low class , worst thing I have ever heard..
We have a guy that for some reason gets really loud whenever anyone is on 10 or 11 in a row.. I thought that was pretty low but your guy takes the cake.
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Edited on 9/16/2009 12:43 PM
Post by: dicnic on September 16, 2009, 01:01:45 PM
Or, perhaps the best approach, again mentioned by a poster would be to bait the guy. Have a large, sturdy male bowler plow into the guy during the "big guy's" approach and perhaps do the runner some damage. Swinging the ball into the runner's groin might do the trick!
I'm sure with a little more thought, we could come up with some other solutions that would cause the runner even more pain!
--------------------
Never take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.
Post by: inconsistent 1 on September 16, 2009, 01:14:26 PM
Post by: michelle on September 16, 2009, 01:27:57 PM
Post by: Nicanor on September 16, 2009, 01:30:27 PM
Thanks again,
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Post by: Strider on September 16, 2009, 01:40:31 PM
Anyone running out a shot not on at least the front 10 needs a lesson in manners.
--------------------
Penn State Proud
Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive (http://"http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/roncarchive.htm")
Post by: J_w73 on September 16, 2009, 02:33:31 PM
quote:
Is the USBC default rule one lane of courtesy, unless overridden by a league rule? If so, anyone running out a shot more than one lane would automatically be in violation. If a bowler is on 10, no one should be on 9 or 11, but those on 8 or 12 should have the right of way.
Anyone running out a shot not on at least the front 10 needs a lesson in manners.
--------------------
Penn State Proud
Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive (http://"http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/roncarchive.htm")
The USBC rule on this is if there is contact made with the other person then it is interference and the person that was in the process of their delivery has the option to take the shot over(if the shot was released onto the playing surface). I don't believe there is a general "rule" on lane courtesy or running out shots 3 lanes over.
The USBC doesn't usually have rules or should have to have rules on people being A**holes
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: ramimac on September 16, 2009, 02:50:36 PM
But you know a bowling abll to the ankle in full motion would hurt the moron doing the running
--------------------
In the Bag
NVD 14lb
Gamebreaker 14lb
Playmaker 14lb
Bash Re/Black 14lb
Bam Blue/Black 14lb
Viper R.I.P (Cracked all the way arround ball)
Post by: J_w73 on September 16, 2009, 03:09:43 PM
quote:
I thought there was a rule that states you must stay within the boundries of your current lane no further out than the gutter caps?
But you know a bowling abll to the ankle in full motion would hurt the moron doing the running
--------------------
In the Bag
NVD 14lb
Gamebreaker 14lb
Playmaker 14lb
Bash Re/Black 14lb
Bam Blue/Black 14lb
Viper R.I.P (Cracked all the way arround ball)
Haven't heard of that one. But if there was something that the USBC said about it I would imagine it had more to do with courtesy and not a rule and more than likely would say," "should" stay within the boundries of your current lane", cause "must" means nothing if there is no penalty for not doing it.
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: trash heap on September 16, 2009, 03:16:45 PM
quote:
I thought there was a rule that states you must stay within the boundries of your current lane no further out than the gutter caps?
I have seen people standing in front of the ball return in tournaments. If this was a rule I am sure someone would called these people on it.
Post by: trash heap on September 16, 2009, 03:17:46 PM
Post by: Kid Jete on September 16, 2009, 03:26:08 PM
Post by: Easy10pins on September 16, 2009, 03:26:09 PM
--------------------
The bowler formerly known as BrunsRod.
Solid 7 Pin?? 299 Game??!! WTF
Post by: Bigmike on September 16, 2009, 03:29:02 PM
quote:
Craft a league rule against having happy feet. All you need is majority rule(captains) if league is in first month(30 days) of fall season. After 30 days you'll need 100% approval from captains. Make that frame a zero and see if he does it again. If your team is the last one finishing and no one is on the lanes-have a ball(if you feel the need to slide 4 lanes worth).
Unless USBC has changed something major and not told anyone, the minute the first shot is thrown for score in the new season it takes a unanimous vote to make a rule change. If one person is opposed to the change, that is the end of the discussion.
--------------------
"Why don't you call me sometime.....when you have no class" ~~Rodney Dangerfield to Sally Kellerman, his college professor in Back to School ~~1986
Mike Craig - Storm Products Pro Shop staff -Columbus, OH
Post by: hallofamer on September 16, 2009, 03:39:58 PM
One lane courtesy would apply to all situations, a waiting bowler and also the actual bowler. The bowler running out the shot interfered and effected bowler should be able to re-bowl the shot.
Post by: J_w73 on September 16, 2009, 05:58:53 PM
quote:
I like Striders interpretation. "One lane of courtesy, unless overridden by a league rule? If so, anyone running out a shot more than one lane would automatically be in violation. If a bowler is on 10, no one should be on 9 or 11, but those on 8 or 12 should have the right of way."
One lane courtesy would apply to all situations, a waiting bowler and also the actual bowler. The bowler running out the shot interfered and effected bowler should be able to re-bowl the shot.
There is not rebowling of a shot unless contact is made with the bowler. That is a USBC rule that I am pretty sure can not be over-ridden by a league rule.
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: sdbowler on September 16, 2009, 06:49:12 PM
--------------------
Kyle
Post by: i_throw_strikes on September 16, 2009, 08:39:17 PM
Post by: DanH78 on September 16, 2009, 08:40:28 PM
quote:
I agree, but without anything in writing, I have no ammunition to prevent this from happeing again in the future.
thanks for the replies.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
You can make a league rule. I believe the spirit goes you can make a rule to be MORE strict than a USBC rule already in place, but you cannot make a rule that counteracts a USBC rule making it less strict.
And in cases like this, where there is no USBC rule regarding running out a shot, you can pretty much write whatever rule you want. Just need to check what your league rules say about creating new rules (some leagues only captains vote, others the entire league, maybe you need simple majority, 75%, etc).
--------------------
It IS next year!
Post by: Nicanor on September 16, 2009, 10:13:34 PM
So far as changing the league rules, you can add a rule to the league rules with a majority vote, but you can't change a rule that has already been voted in. This part is my interpitation, nothing from USBC about this and I didn't ask.
Same day and got a response. Thats great.
--------------------
Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Edited on 9/16/2009 10:14 PM
Post by: stormed1 on September 16, 2009, 10:40:34 PM
--------------------
Arsenal: Mega Friction, S-75, Break Point, Break x 2, Break Pearl,
Clutch
Maniac,Awakening,Link,Global Globe, 14# golden globe
R.I.P. Thong Princess
Post by: J_w73 on September 17, 2009, 12:20:00 AM
quote:
To my knowledge, there is no USBC rule that prevents running out a shot. That being said, I believe you could "technically" have called a foul on the bowler since USBC defines the foul line as "indefinite" and "extending infinitely" or something to that effect.
Since the bowler traveled onto another pair, one could say that he fouled by leaving his designated bowling area. Maybe someone can find the rule, but I can't for some reason. Personally, I've run out shots from time to time. Both of my 300's, big shots in close matches in league and tournament play etc, but I always try to stay on my own pair unless the pairs in the direction I'm walking are empty.
I'd say, if you're up on the adjacent lane in either direction while someone is making their delivery, this is the perfect example of why you wait until the bowler walks back off the approach before starting yours. 2 lanes over? That should never happen. As the league president, you could adopt a rule (with a majority vote in a captain's meeting) that would prevent anyone from walking/running out a shot past the boundaries of their pair.
Edited on 9/16/2009 8:45 PM
foul line is indefinite along the line.. it does not extend perpendicular to the foul line..
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: scotts33 on September 17, 2009, 12:29:33 AM
Polishing balls after competition starts....altering ball surfaces and many more. Time to deal with it USBC! The rules are so antiquated it's time to look at each one. Rule book looks like your website.
--------------------
Scott
Post by: J_w73 on September 17, 2009, 12:53:16 AM
quote:
Time to revisit the rule book and make the USBC deal with it so they can earn their keep. Write some black and white rules that we can live with and understand instead of so many gray areas.
Polishing balls after competition starts....altering ball surfaces and many more. Time to deal with it USBC! The rules are so antiquated it's time to look at each one. Rule book looks like your website.
--------------------
Scott
from my experience the USBC doesn't like to make hard and definite rules or rulings. They like to leave things ambiguous and open to "spirit of the rule/game" interpretations.
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180
Post by: Atochabsh on September 17, 2009, 01:53:57 AM
quote:
Unless USBC has changed something major and not told anyone, the minute the first shot is thrown for score in the new season it takes a unanimous vote to make a rule change. If one person is opposed to the change, that is the end of the discussion.
It hasn't changed.
You still need a 100% unamimous vote if the leauge has already floored to change a league rule.
Now there is some grey area, if you want to add a totally new rule. You are not changing a rule and therefore might be construed as to needing a basic majority vote.
BUT ther is no 30 day trial period.
Erin
Post by: KingofKings696 on September 17, 2009, 03:58:39 AM
Post by: Phoneman on September 17, 2009, 06:54:18 AM
Post by: KingofKings696 on September 17, 2009, 07:32:39 AM
Post by: tc300 on September 17, 2009, 08:51:13 AM
1: it kinda sux, i havent said anything yet.
2: if there next to us i just watch for them or make sure there done b4 i bowl.
3: why the fawk are ppl running strikes out 2-4 weeks into the season?!?!?!?!
i could see it a lil towards the end of the year or if your team is tryn to win the league, but a few weeks into it ?????????
Post by: tc300 on September 17, 2009, 08:52:16 AM
1: it kinda sux, i havent said anything yet.
2: if there next to us i just watch for them or make sure there done b4 i bowl.
3: why the fawk are ppl running strikes out 2-4 weeks into the season?!?!?!?!
i could see it a lil towards the end of the year or if your team is tryn to win the league, but a few weeks into it ?????????
Post by: tc300 on September 17, 2009, 08:54:16 AM
quote:
Imagine half of the bowlers in the league run out strikes, you are going to be there all night trying to complete 3 games.
no way!!!!! only time it takes a long time is when u have guys that take 4ever to bowl....