win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: Bowlero plans to kick out USBC is now painfully obvious  (Read 18626 times)

bowling_rebel

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 159
Bowlero plans to kick out USBC is now painfully obvious
« on: July 23, 2022, 05:52:03 PM »
This was posted on Facebook, by Bowlero's new head of league bowling certification. Kind of explaining how everything the USBC has been doing for like over 100 years, they are now going to do instead.



A message from Neil Stremmel, our new PBA League Bowler Certification Director of Rules and Equipment.

For more information visit pba.com/pba-league-bowler-certification

https://www.facebook.com/ProfessionalBowlersAssociation/photos/a.241777764773/10159793816254774/

 

Bowls 300s

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
Re: Bowlero plans to kick out USBC is now painfully obvious
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2022, 09:22:49 AM »
Hey Bowls 300s,
How much has membership declined while Chad pulled dow 300k a year? Oh and what a genius move to resurrect the PWBA so we can flush more money down the drain funding a tour that’s never going to turn a profit.

Morpheus,

Why would I not be good with both?

Having a PWBA is fantastic and it grows the sport. How can anyone not be behind that?








Spoiler alert nothing Chad has done during his tenure has grown membership…

Kinda spinning. I covered this already, the sport has been on a decline since 1981 so not just a Chad thing.

I am interested in reading specifics as to why bowlers would think corporate self center certification would be better served than that done by our governing body.

How a corporation that has not put out a quality product in their own centers and one whom ran leagues bowlers will do a better job. A company that centers damage balls, go three days with conditioning, horible at converting rec players into USBC members and these just the cliff notes should bite of this task or have the slightess buisness even attempting.

Personally surprised Stremmel even sat down for an interview let alone take the position. Guessing he is not a Bowlero customer. Odd to me, Stremmel as well as anyone having had worked for the ABC should understand their importance, purpose and overall contribution to the long history of this sport. Kidding me Stremmel, you have gone rogue.




« Last Edit: July 28, 2022, 09:25:45 AM by Bowls 300s »
Certified A Mechanic (1400 Hours) - Taylor Trained PSO - (4) Professional Bowling Camps - Center Manager Independant & Corporate. Family owned Centers since 50s.

morpheus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 596
Re: Bowlero plans to kick out USBC is now painfully obvious
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2022, 12:22:54 PM »
Hey Bowls 300s,
How much has membership declined while Chad pulled dow 300k a year? Oh and what a genius move to resurrect the PWBA so we can flush more money down the drain funding a tour that’s never going to turn a profit.

Morpheus,

Why would I not be good with both?

Having a PWBA is fantastic and it grows the sport. How can anyone not be behind that?








Spoiler alert nothing Chad has done during his tenure has grown membership…

Kinda spinning. I covered this already, the sport has been on a decline since 1981 so not just a Chad thing.

I am interested in reading specifics as to why bowlers would think corporate self center certification would be better served than that done by our governing body.

How a corporation that has not put out a quality product in their own centers and one whom ran leagues bowlers will do a better job. A company that centers damage balls, go three days with conditioning, horible at converting rec players into USBC members and these just the cliff notes should bite of this task or have the slightess buisness even attempting.

Personally surprised Stremmel even sat down for an interview let alone take the position. Guessing he is not a Bowlero customer. Odd to me, Stremmel as well as anyone having had worked for the ABC should understand their importance, purpose and overall contribution to the long history of this sport. Kidding me Stremmel, you have gone rogue.






At least a corporation has at least some vested interest in making their customers happy or customers won’t buy their product. Regardless of how Chad or the USBC performs, he’s gonna get his 300k (which is ridiculous) and USBC gets their cut of sanction fees. It’s also pretty obvious anyone with a dissenting opinion from Chad is fired so the only people left are are yes men. I still have no understanding how a ball rep got hired to run the USBC with zero experience running an organization of that size and complexity.
#AFutureForMembership #WhoDoesUSBCWorkFor

Bowler19525

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 882
Re: Bowlero plans to kick out USBC is now painfully obvious
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2022, 02:31:35 PM »
Got to looking in to this "LeaguePals" app that PBA/Bowlero is going to roll out to their 180000 league bowlers this fall.  Based on reviews of the app at the app stores it is a total nightmare.  Glitchy, errors, etc.

Is anyone currently bowling on a league actually using LeaguePals for league maintenance?  The demo video at the LeaguePals site talks about how it gets rid of money envelopes, recap sheets, etc.  Automated everything.  I get why Bowlero would want to go to something like this but it seems certain to cause more problems than it solves.  Especially for collecting league dues if some people pay cash and others pay via the app.  How in the world is a treasurer going to be able to reconcile the payments each week?  Senior bowlers will especially hate this.

itsallaboutme

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2011
Re: Bowlero plans to kick out USBC is now painfully obvious
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2022, 03:45:53 PM »
How much is a fair salary for an executive director of a national sanctioning body?

I pay $35 for my golf handicap.  Should I be outraged the USGA executive director makes $1.5 million?

bradl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1660
Re: Bowlero plans to kick out USBC is now painfully obvious
« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2022, 06:12:03 PM »
At least a corporation has at least some vested interest in making their customers happy or customers won’t buy their product. Regardless of how Chad or the USBC performs, he’s gonna get his 300k (which is ridiculous) and USBC gets their cut of sanction fees. It’s also pretty obvious anyone with a dissenting opinion from Chad is fired so the only people left are are yes men. I still have no understanding how a ball rep got hired to run the USBC with zero experience running an organization of that size and complexity.

A corporation has their main interest in making their shareholders happy, not making their customers happy. I mean, Bowlero's shareholders were definitely happy when Shannon was closing alleys left, right, and center, and the only people buying their product were those going to their alleys to have a bowling party. They weren't targeting the people they needed the most, which was repeat customers, which come from leagues. That still needs to be reconciled.

As far as Chad goes, I'll agree that things should be better than what he's doing. Not much else to be said on that. But Bowlero has a lot of smelling of anal vapor to do while puckering up to kiss the backside of league and tournament bowlers they pissed off years ago.

BL.

morpheus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 596
Re: Bowlero plans to kick out USBC is now painfully obvious
« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2022, 07:38:04 PM »
How much is a fair salary for an executive director of a national sanctioning body?

I pay $35 for my golf handicap.  Should I be outraged the USGA executive director makes $1.5 million?

Gee I don’t know, but he wasn’t repping golf clubs for 10 years without a college education before he got the job.
#AFutureForMembership #WhoDoesUSBCWorkFor

Adrenaline

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 286
Re: Bowlero plans to kick out USBC is now painfully obvious
« Reply #37 on: July 29, 2022, 09:27:14 AM »

How in the world is a treasurer going to be able to reconcile the payments each week?  Senior bowlers will especially hate this.

The same way every business in the entire world does?
You act like credit cards, cash, Venmo, PayPal, Zelle, Cash app, apple pay, Google pay, checks, cashier's checks, wires, debit cards, and gift cards haven't existed for over a decade now.

Yeah, old people will hate it, but the other 90% of the population who stopped carrying cash 20 years ago, will appreciate it.  I assume that generation will just continue paying in cash on a weekly basis, it just won't go into an envelope anymore, and they won't notice a difference.

I mean, if we're being realistic, have you seen that generation handle the envelope?  They aren't really doing the best with that system either.  The amount of white out, scribbles, and correction the secretary has to do is already significant.  The vast majority of them leave it blank, just put their money in, and let the secretary fill out the envelope.  So it's not really like the current system is doing them any favors.

I have zero faith the app will be streamlined, or intuitive because it will likely be designed by the same generation who can't use it, but that's how America operates.  Old white guy makes laws about technology they can't even comprehend.

The sad reality of the world we live in.

Bowler19525

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 882
Re: Bowlero plans to kick out USBC is now painfully obvious
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2022, 11:04:12 AM »

How in the world is a treasurer going to be able to reconcile the payments each week?  Senior bowlers will especially hate this.

The same way every business in the entire world does?
You act like credit cards, cash, Venmo, PayPal, Zelle, Cash app, apple pay, Google pay, checks, cashier's checks, wires, debit cards, and gift cards haven't existed for over a decade now.

Yeah, old people will hate it, but the other 90% of the population who stopped carrying cash 20 years ago, will appreciate it.  I assume that generation will just continue paying in cash on a weekly basis, it just won't go into an envelope anymore, and they won't notice a difference.

I mean, if we're being realistic, have you seen that generation handle the envelope?  They aren't really doing the best with that system either.  The amount of white out, scribbles, and correction the secretary has to do is already significant.  The vast majority of them leave it blank, just put their money in, and let the secretary fill out the envelope.  So it's not really like the current system is doing them any favors.

I have zero faith the app will be streamlined, or intuitive because it will likely be designed by the same generation who can't use it, but that's how America operates.  Old white guy makes laws about technology they can't even comprehend.

The sad reality of the world we live in.

I bowl league at a Bowlero now.  League dues are currently cash only.  Absolutely no credit or debit payments permitted.

Now they want to go to a system where some will pay cash and some will pay in an app.  The treasurer will get an envelope.  Some will have paid cash, some will not.  Now the treasurer has to have some way of validating that the people claiming to have paid via the app actually paid.  Then when they go to the control desk, the bowling center has to have some way of reconciling how much was paid via the app versus cash to take out the lineage due for the night.  A little different dynamic than buying something at the store and using your card.

I'm not acting like electronic payments haven't existed.  It's an issue of a business that currently doesn't accept electronic payment for league dues suddenly going to a system of cash or electronic and suddenly expecting league treasurers and center employees to make it work.  It will be a total cluster.

Senior bowlers around here are sticklers about their pay envelopes.  They don't want to leave anything to chance and risk any kind of clerical error.  They are even more picky about their standing sheets.  Tell them they need to use an app for standings and they will have a total fit.

Adrenaline

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 286
Re: Bowlero plans to kick out USBC is now painfully obvious
« Reply #39 on: July 29, 2022, 12:42:01 PM »

Now they want to go to a system where some will pay cash and some will pay in an app.  The treasurer will get an envelope.  Some will have paid cash, some will not.  Now the treasurer has to have some way of validating that the people claiming to have paid via the app actually paid.  Then when they go to the control desk, the bowling center has to have some way of reconciling how much was paid via the app versus cash to take out the lineage due for the night.  A little different dynamic than buying something at the store and using your card.


Not really.  The store still has to reconcile the cash register with the credit card machine at the end of every night.  Just like your secretary will.  They'll go through all cash payments and then they'll go through all the digital payments.  And it will be the exact same result.  Bob is paid, Bill owes a week, Jill is 3 weeks in advance.  Whether it came from cash or app, will have zero relevance.
It's literally just going to be a digital equivalent of the envelope.  If they aren't completely clueless, the digital system will have en export option, and the secretary's job, if they have any competence in a spreadsheet, will likely make their job 10 times easier.

Pull the digital records, export to excel, sort alphabetically, and then manually enter the cash payments, done.  If the app has any sort of modern day tools, it will be a significant quality of life upgrade for all secretaries.

I wouldn't hold my breath, of course, but in theory, if done correctly, this could streamline the entire process.

milorafferty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11171
  • I have a name, therefore no preferred pronouns.
Re: Bowlero plans to kick out USBC is now painfully obvious
« Reply #40 on: July 29, 2022, 01:08:48 PM »
How much is a fair salary for an executive director of a national sanctioning body?

I pay $35 for my golf handicap.  Should I be outraged the USGA executive director makes $1.5 million?

Good questions.

The income statements for both organizations are online.

USBC income for 2019 was $36,456,858

USGA income for 2020 was $517,714,574

If the Chadster is paid $300K that would mean his salary is .82% of the Annual revenue for USBC.

The stated(here) salary for USGA Executive Director is $1.7M, which is .33% of the Annual revenue.

I think we can agree that the USGA Executive Director is a much more intensive job than the same position at USBC.
"If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?"

"If you don't stand for our flag, then don't expect me to give a damn about your feelings."

Bowls 300s

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 24
Re: Bowlero plans to kick out USBC is now painfully obvious
« Reply #41 on: July 29, 2022, 01:33:18 PM »
How much is a fair salary for an executive director of a national sanctioning body?

I pay $35 for my golf handicap.  Should I be outraged the USGA executive director makes $1.5 million?

Good questions.

The income statements for both organizations are online.

USBC income for 2019 was $36,456,858

USGA income for 2020 was $517,714,574

If the Chadster is paid $300K that would mean his salary is .82% of the Annual revenue for USBC.

The stated(here) salary for USGA Executive Director is $1.7M, which is .33% of the Annual revenue.

I think we can agree that the USGA Executive Director is a much more intensive job than the same position at USBC.

But whatever...

I mean its in no way relevant or reason to not support the USBC.

The Chad stuff is tired and petty in the grand scope.

To choose to not support a USBC sanctioned house, a USBC sanctioned league is choosing to not support this sport or any hope of its future growth.

And what, Bowlero's plans are free? Stremmel and his plans will not come at any cost? oh okay pfft...

We have in place already a research center and certification equipment for everything.

Bowlero needs to get out of the way of the USBC and clean up their own house.

Todays bowlers omg... its such a no brainer this fall to bowl only in sanctioned USBC houses and leagues.







Certified A Mechanic (1400 Hours) - Taylor Trained PSO - (4) Professional Bowling Camps - Center Manager Independant & Corporate. Family owned Centers since 50s.

Bowler19525

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 882
Re: Bowlero plans to kick out USBC is now painfully obvious
« Reply #42 on: July 29, 2022, 02:35:44 PM »

Now they want to go to a system where some will pay cash and some will pay in an app.  The treasurer will get an envelope.  Some will have paid cash, some will not.  Now the treasurer has to have some way of validating that the people claiming to have paid via the app actually paid.  Then when they go to the control desk, the bowling center has to have some way of reconciling how much was paid via the app versus cash to take out the lineage due for the night.  A little different dynamic than buying something at the store and using your card.


Not really.  The store still has to reconcile the cash register with the credit card machine at the end of every night.  Just like your secretary will.  They'll go through all cash payments and then they'll go through all the digital payments.  And it will be the exact same result.  Bob is paid, Bill owes a week, Jill is 3 weeks in advance.  Whether it came from cash or app, will have zero relevance.
It's literally just going to be a digital equivalent of the envelope.  If they aren't completely clueless, the digital system will have en export option, and the secretary's job, if they have any competence in a spreadsheet, will likely make their job 10 times easier.

Pull the digital records, export to excel, sort alphabetically, and then manually enter the cash payments, done.  If the app has any sort of modern day tools, it will be a significant quality of life upgrade for all secretaries.

I wouldn't hold my breath, of course, but in theory, if done correctly, this could streamline the entire process.

If they.are going to allow cash or electronic via the app, there will still need to be pay envelopes.  I guess someone could write APP instead of how much cash they paid.  Still means the treasurer will need some sort of treasurer's dashboard in the app to validate that they actually paid electronically.  The treasurers at our Bowlero have to turn all money in the same night as the league, and then Bowlero provides a receipt and deposits the money in the bank.
 
The reconciliation at the bowling center level will need to not only show how much, but who and what league they were on.  Although, if people pay their league dues via the app on a day other than their league night it will show up in a different day's receipts.  Still think this could get really messy.

JessN16

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3716
Re: Bowlero plans to kick out USBC is now painfully obvious
« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2022, 02:26:26 AM »

But whatever...

I mean its in no way relevant or reason to not support the USBC.

The Chad stuff is tired and petty in the grand scope.

To choose to not support a USBC sanctioned house, a USBC sanctioned league is choosing to not support this sport or any hope of its future growth.

And what, Bowlero's plans are free? Stremmel and his plans will not come at any cost? oh okay pfft...

We have in place already a research center and certification equipment for everything.

Bowlero needs to get out of the way of the USBC and clean up their own house.

Todays bowlers omg... its such a no brainer this fall to bowl only in sanctioned USBC houses and leagues.









The phrase "The buck stops here" applies to anyone at the top of an organization.

The USBC (and earlier the ABC) has been shedding bowlers every year since either 1980 or 1981. In response, the USBC has not made a concerted effort, or even made it part of its core mission, to use USBC resources to expand league membership, which is its right I guess since by its very structure it is a representative organization there to advocate for its members.

Yet, I'm going to borrow from the economic world and say that bowling eventually will reach a "moment of critical negative inertia," which is to say that at some point the membership of the USBC will drop below a point that it can either sustain operations in Arlington, or act as an effective bully pulpit for the league bowlers. What Bowlero is doing is a signal toward that future, as at its current pace, the USBC will be largely irrelevant in about a decade unless membership turns around.

The USBC and ABC before it liked to put membership recruiting off on the centers and the BPAA. Let the centers spend the money, then the USBC/(ABC/WIBC) would swoop in and claim their membership dues once they joined a league. The centers carried all the risk, while the USBC/(ABC/WIBC) reaped the reward after the fact.

That business model is no longer sustainable.

Not only has Chad not come to this realization, or better stated, he has not come up with a plan to reverse it (which will involve spending money, perhaps to recruiting efforts instead of to other USBC pet projects), what was the most high-profile thing the USBC has done in recent years? Banned a bunch of bowling balls because they couldn't (or wouldn't) learn how a durometer needle is negatively affected by polishing compound. In doing so, the damage fell squarely on the shoulders of its constituents and one of its partners, while the organization turned a deaf ear to concerns about the process.

Furthermore, the structure of the USBC is not what it needs to be. The relationship between how the BoD is seated and how the director is held accountable is way too cozy, almost to the point of being incestuous.

I've said this before: I've been the executive director of an organization that was made up primarily of 13 governmental entities, all of which were directly accountable to voters and had taxing authority, in a public/private partnership with about 10 private corporations and nonprofits. In my opinion, the USBC lacks accountability to its membership through a fairly convoluted convention structure and organizational layering. None of it is by accident, and again in my opinion, it's done simply to preserve the existence of the organization above all else.

At some point, someone has to be accountable. Even if the bleed-off in bowlers is not directly the fault of the organization, the lack of accountability to the membership is akin to rearranging the deck chairs on a certain iceberg-slapping boat. There has been no plan, and the USBC is famously noncommunicative with local associations (I was also a president of one for a time) to the point that it has let the narrative get away from it to a degree that even a $1/year dues increase is met with furor from some of the membership because they can't appreciate what those dollars are doing for them.

Bowlero at least has a vision. I don't like parts of it (string pinsetters chief among them) but as a for-profit entity with a BoD required *by law* to represent the financial best interests of its shareholders, Bowlero will at least not stand still. The current CLB program is rough around the edges and suffers from potentially some unrealistic expectations, but at this point the system needs a little more ready-fire-aim to shake it up.

If Bowlero succeeds in dividing the league bowler base between USBC and CLB, it will have done in a matter of 2-3 years what the USBC has had 40-plus years to do and failed to deliver upon. Decide who you want to blame that on, but the guy currently sitting in the big chair has to take his share first.

bowling4burgers

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 188
Re: Bowlero plans to kick out USBC is now painfully obvious
« Reply #44 on: August 01, 2022, 09:25:26 AM »
Bowlero at least has a vision. I don't like parts of it (string pinsetters chief among them) but as a for-profit entity with a BoD required *by law* to represent the financial best interests of its shareholders,
Yep, its shareholders, not the sport of bowling. What could possibly go wrong?  ::)
This might be cool if the PBA were independent and run by the bowlers, but as it is, I'm out.
The Future of Bowling: Bowling is a once-popular tavern game played with a heavy ball and ten pins.

JessN16

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3716
Re: Bowlero plans to kick out USBC is now painfully obvious
« Reply #45 on: August 01, 2022, 11:33:24 AM »
Bowlero at least has a vision. I don't like parts of it (string pinsetters chief among them) but as a for-profit entity with a BoD required *by law* to represent the financial best interests of its shareholders,
Yep, its shareholders, not the sport of bowling. What could possibly go wrong?  ::)
This might be cool if the PBA were independent and run by the bowlers, but as it is, I'm out.

Well, again ... whether we agree or disagree with this, the USBC has had 40 years to figure out a different plan.

In order to do what's best for the sport (an altruistic endeavor) rather than stakeholders (an economic endeavor), the sport either has to generate the necessary operational money itself, or it has to have a benefactor to close the gap.

If the sport fails to do one or the other, it loses the ability to be the prime mover in the relationship between sport and business, because it cannot be its own advocate absent the funds to make it happen.

We can bemoan this fact, but we can't change that it *is* a fact. This is just Economics 101 coming home to roost. You can't hate Bowlero for doing what a business does. The onus is on the USBC to step up and be a player.