Quote from: dR3w on July 01, 2016, 10:28:03 AM

I took a quick peek yesterday and didn't see it ... they probably wait until the printed copy is out for a little bit (just a guess). 

Its a one page story about how the executive director of the USBC is sitting at a poker table with some bowlers he doesn't know (hopefully not using our dues for his bankroll ... talking about bowling and accomplishments.  One guy talks to him about how he sandbags in league so that he can keep a low tournament average. Goes into a little detail about how he does it.

Man that is BS.  Our league punishes sandbaggers badly with some long elaborate formula that was explained in week 1 but I just wanted to bowl so I didn't pay attention lol.  Probably why the best teams have the best averages.  First place with a record of 31-5 has the following averages: 215, 215, 240.  And no that is not a typo.  Yeah I never felt so mediocre in my life but I love it.  This is how you get better.  If you want to beat Michael Jordan some day, you don't go practicing against scrubs lol.

Quote from: dR3w on July 01, 2016, 10:38:59 AM

I've been very outspoken on this topic both on ball reviews and my leagues.  I think i'm literally at the point where I don't bother anymore.  What is fare, seems extremely suggestive.  I think bowling needs some sort of slope rating to equate averages based on oily patterns, but that is only part of the problem ... or solution. 

In no way am I trying to turn this into a discussion of sandbagging.  I'm sure there are many threads on the subject on this site if anyone feels like venting or defending the actions.

To me the story was just so "in your face" about sandbagging in the sport that even one of the top men in the USBC isn't immune from hearing it right from the horses mouth.

Quote from: Necromancer on July 01, 2016, 10:32:39 AM

Quote from: dR3w on July 01, 2016, 10:28:03 AM

I took a quick peek yesterday and didn't see it ... they probably wait until the printed copy is out for a little bit (just a guess). 

Its a one page story about how the executive director of the USBC is sitting at a poker table with some bowlers he doesn't know (hopefully not using our dues for his bankroll ... talking about bowling and accomplishments.  One guy talks to him about how he sandbags in league so that he can keep a low tournament average. Goes into a little detail about how he does it.

Man that is BS.  Our league punishes sandbaggers badly with some long elaborate formula that was explained in week 1 but I just wanted to bowl so I didn't pay attention lol.  Probably why the best teams have the best averages.  First place with a record of 31-5 has the following averages: 215, 215, 240.  And no that is not a typo.  Yeah I never felt so mediocre in my life but I love it.  This is how you get better.  If you want to beat Michael Jordan some day, you don't go practicing against scrubs lol.

I think only bowling has this issue.  I didn't know anything about it until like 10 years ago when I started bowling in Pittsburgh after being out of bowling for years.  I started with a 170 average or something because my form was completely off.  I ended the year in the 200s.  Then people were coming up to me and saying I was sandbagging.  I was like huh?  My average eventually went higher and people stopped talking haha.  But from what I understand, people actually love doing this.  I find it to be a complete waste of time.  I don't even care about team records much anymore.  I am basically bowling against myself and all I care about is getting a 300 in front of my dad who is getting old.  That is all I care about at this point.  Maybe if I don't lose interest again, compete in the US Open in 2017.  But yeah, sandbagging is stupid but our league seems to created some formula to punish it.  I think one part of the formula is if you bowl under your book average by a certain amount, your counted score is even less.  It is something crazy because the commissioner was pretty serious about it on week 1 lol.

Quote from: Necromancer on July 01, 2016, 12:54:06 PM

Not sure if you guys are aware, but I got Bowl Magazine yesterday after practice which is for March/April 2016 and there is a huge article about "New average integrity rules announced for 2017 USBC Open Championships".  It talks about how manipulation of a bowler's average is a serious issue and how USBC is coming up with new rules.  Key changes:

1) based on most recent 27 games since 2008 using Sport Average Adjustment Scale
2) past 3 seasons of USBC league play
3) all average adjusted using SAAS

Anyone caught manipulating will be disqualified and penalized big time.

It sounds good, and I am all for it, but the USBC open championships isn't really a bagger's tournament.  Anyone above 180 (at least before next year's rule change), all bowl scratch.  So there is no graduated handicap scale.  You could bag to get into the lower (classified) division, but that is about it. 

Brackets and final standings are based on scratch scores within your division ... regular or classified.

Most baggers are doing it for handicap tournaments ... although there are always exceptions, like trying to win the league for more money.

We had a guy bowl the first 6 weeks of league with his plastic ball, then switched to his normal equipment.  The guy had a slew of 18 game entries in the book ... which doesn't count for a legal average.  That is usually a person to consider suspicious ... one who has 18 games in several leagues with a much higher average than the one he finishes with in the league he is establishing his book average with.  But I'm probably not telling anyone anything they didn't already know.

It's all on advertising ... isn't it?  Lots of people golf, both young and old,  and there are a lot of advertisers catering toward that demographic.  Bowling gets odor eaters and Dennys lol.

Quote from: Necromancer on July 01, 2016, 01:13:42 PM

Quote from: dR3w on July 01, 2016, 01:03:46 PM

Quote from: Necromancer on July 01, 2016, 12:54:06 PM

Not sure if you guys are aware, but I got Bowl Magazine yesterday after practice which is for March/April 2016 and there is a huge article about "New average integrity rules announced for 2017 USBC Open Championships".  It talks about how manipulation of a bowler's average is a serious issue and how USBC is coming up with new rules.  Key changes:

1) based on most recent 27 games since 2008 using Sport Average Adjustment Scale
2) past 3 seasons of USBC league play
3) all average adjusted using SAAS

Anyone caught manipulating will be disqualified and penalized big time.

It sounds good, and I am all for it, but the USBC open championships isn't really a bagger's tournament.  Anyone above 180 (at least before next year's rule change), all bowl scratch.  So there is no graduated handicap scale.  You could bag to get into the lower (classified) division, but that is about it. 

Brackets and final standings are based on scratch scores within your division ... regular or classified.

Most baggers are doing it for handicap tournaments ... although there are always exceptions, like trying to win the league for more money.

We had a guy bowl the first 6 weeks of league with his plastic ball, then switched to his normal equipment.  The guy had a slew of 18 game entries in the book ... which doesn't count for a legal average.  That is usually a person to consider suspicious ... one who has 18 games in several leagues with a much higher average than the one he finishes with in the league he is establishing his book average with.  But I'm probably not telling anyone anything they didn't already know.

Man people like that should just go play poker or plan a heist.  Putting that much effort to win relatively very little money got issues.  When the last person in a PGA golf tournament a couple of weeks ago "in the money" placing 78th can make $13,000 for a single tournament and the best in the world in a PBA tournament makes $10,000, I know I am in the wrong sport lol.